Batman V Superman - Spoilers

[Udaman]

Might as well start this thread since a) so many people are talking about it and b) clearly a bunch of people saw it this weekend. 4th biggest opening of all time.

So...what was my impression? Well, let me start by saying that I was 100% spoiler free, well, except I knew that Wonder Woman would be in it (would have been nice not to have known that)...oh and that Batman and Superman would fight. And I've read the Dark Knight comic books. So I guess I wasn't completely spoiler free. I'll also say that I saw many reviews about it that didn't spoil anything and that were mostly really, really bad. I'm glad of that, because it lowered my expectations. I've actually seen it twice now - took my kids to see it again this am.

So overall I liked it. Didn't love it. But certainly didn't hate it. Enjoyed it enough to see it the second time (which I would never have done with Iron Man 3, or Green Lantern). But there was a lot to dislike for sure. I'll start with the positives:

1) FINALLY! Someone showed that when superheros trash a city...that people actually die and get horrifically wounded. Finally. I thought the first 4 minutes was great. There was chaos going on, with snippets of the last Superman movie and the impact that the huge fight between Superman and Zod had on Metropolis. And you could get why Batman wouldn't like or trust the guy. Really liked one part especially (that I didn't catch until the 2nd viewing) where you see Superman when he was getting thrown threw the buildings and the impact that had.

2) Thought Batman was pretty good. Fight scenes with him and the bad guys was great. Him breaking arms and legs. All good. But also a negative (see below).

3) Truck chase scene. Mostly good. Especially Batman trying to run Superman over and how that wan an epic fail. But some was negative (see below).

4) Capital scene. Well done. Always liked Holly Hunter.

5) Is she with you? I thought she was with you. Best line of the movie. "Must be the Gotham in me...don't really trust guys dressed up like clowns." Second best line of the movie.

6) Fight between Superman and Batman. Pretty true to the comic in terms of some of the stuff Batman does to Superman. Liked how he smirked when the sound waves hit Superman. That was a nice touch. And the dialogue about Batman's parents.

7) Wonder Woman...though I didn't like her fight scenes as much as others. See below.

What I didn't like

a) That Lex Luther was basically the Joker and Riddler wrapped up in one. Thought he was OK at first...but too nutty at the end. Lex is a genius madman, not a psychopathic nut job.

b) The Destroyer (or whoever the ultimate bad guy was). We've seen the "he can't be killed" thing before. And now you had three can't be killed with Superman, Wonder Woman and the Destroyer. Makes me wonder how a Justice League could ever be made...I mean if you can't kill Superman or Wonder Woman, what's the point?

c) The dialogue. Boy was it bad at times. Really, really bad. Worse by far was the end when Wonder Woman asks Batman why he says that the "others" will join them. Dramatic pause. You're thinking he'll say "Because they have to," or "Because the world will need them," or "To Save Themselves." Instead it's..."Just a feeling." Groan. And every line with Lois and Superman was blech.

d) That they really messed up the ideas behind Batman and Superman. Batman doesn't want to kill anyone. That makes him a murderer. But in this movie, he must kill dozens of people. Dozens. And Superman isn't a person who wants to injure anyone. He's the goofy guy who doesn't get that there are ramifications to his omnipotence. That's what drives Batman crazy in the comics. He knows that if he had Superman's power there would be no bad guys anymore. Anywhere. But Superman pretends he's above it all. Pretends that he can't take sides. This movie abandons that. When Superman wrecks Batman's car and then says "Consider this mercy," that was the low point of the movie for me...after such a cool confrontation. Because that's something I would never expect Superman to say. Would have been so much better if he said "Next time they flash the signal...call in sick that day. If you show up for work, I'm going to find you, pick you up and fly you to Texas. And the next time it will be Hawaii. Then Australia." Instead he's all threatening. Not Superman for me. No he doesn't like what Batman is doing...and that's fine. But he's not a bully. At least not to me.

e) Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg. All look kind of dumb, really. But I guess we'll see them a bunch in the near future.

f) The mostly lack of humor. My 12 year old son said, "Dad - I wish Batman had been funnier. There were so many times he could have said something great, and didn't." The best of the Superhero movies all have a wonderful element of humor in them. And Deadpool showed that it's hard to take that too far. Even over the top still works.

g) In the fight with Batman against the bad guys at the end....there were two parts that really ruined the scene for me. First, that the bad guys wouldn't kill Martha the moment they heard something. They would have thought it was Superman, I'm guessing. Second, when Batman gets shot in the back of the head, and somehow the bat hat protects him. Even if it could stop the bullet - the concussion from that would be unreal. I know, I know it's all fake to begin with...but if Batman ever gets shot at close range in the back of the head...it's game over. But not here.


I guess I would put this in the medium tier of Superhero movies (where's that thread we did a while back). Definitely better than the duds (Iron Man 3, Spiderman 3, X-Men 3, Green Lantern). Definitely not in the top tier (Guardians, Deadpool, Iron Man, X-Men 1, 2, First Class and Days of Future). Again, I'm glad I saw negative reviews. Had I gone in with super high expectations, I would have been more disappointed.

[Doria]

I thought it was pretty good, though it might have been because the reviews were so uniformly terrible. I could see giving it a "C," but not a 30/100.

Some (most) of the dialogue was terrible, but the action improved upon Man of Steel by actually not putting me to sleep. (For that matter, it probably improved on the action in Age of Ultron, and I found that movie generally dull, as well.) The "Martha" plot point was unbelievably awful, though.

I have more thoughts, but not much time right now, so I guess I'll wait till more people have seen it. I will say, though, that for people unfamiliar with the DCU in any medium, I think parts of this movie would be extremely confusing.

[Wander]

I agree - definitely not top tier like DC wanted (needed?) it to be, but also definitely not one of the worst like some of the reviews are saying.

Highlight for me was the bombing of the capitol. Nicely established Lex as a villain and was very surprising to me in a movie that gave way too much away in the trailers (how cool would Doomsday's appearance have been if it wasn't in the trailers?!). I also thought the idea of the destruction of Metropolis actually being revealed to have killed a lot of people and influence Batman was super clever... it probably isn't getting praise in the reviews because it's been known for so long. This movie really screwed up their trailers.

I thought the music often didn't match up with the tone of the movie or specific scenes and often sort of jarred me out of a scene - the worst offender being Wonder Woman's theme.

[Matches]

It's not a good movie, by any means, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. It's too long, Superman is one-note and smiles less than Batman which is really weird, the dream sequences are terrible, and the whole first hour is kind of dull.

But Affleck is cool as Batman. Everything with Wonder Woman is awesome. Lex grew on me. The movie may be a mess but it's an entertaining mess. The bits that were pretty much wholly lifted from Dark Knight Returns and Death of Superman were cool for the DC geek in me too.

Big disconnect between critics and fans on this one. Clearly the critics hate this one with a fiery passion. The audience applauded at the showing I saw. It reminds me a lot of the response to Michael Bay movies.

[BD80]

How bad is a movie when, within 2 days of the movie's release, the studio has to release a deleted scene online to help explain what happened in the movie?

[Doria]

But the deleted scene didn't actually make anything much clearer (if you're talking about the one that showed... uh, maybe Steppenwolf? I mean, that's the only person I could even think of who might look like that--considering it doesn't really look like anyone in the comics).

To the point Matches brought up, at the showing I attended, the audience was clearly excited to see the other prospective Justice League members, and definitely to see the Trinity in action, despite the iconic shot of the three of them being in the trailers for months. There was also some applause afterward, though not very much.

I was actually excited to see them keeping most of Wonder Woman's canonical abilities, though they are going with the New 52 version, I think, wherein she's a demi-god and cannot naturally fly (in the comics she can now, because Mercury granted her the ability in maybe the second trade of the New 52 run). But she used the gauntlets to create a shock wave, and obviously, she used the lasso which did seem pretty unbreakable.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Last person on the planet to see this movie (slow night at the mtn.devil house). Sloooooow bad. Even with a year of bad reviews, this was X-Men 3 bad. Nothing seemed to logically follow. Just a series of action scenes. Dramatic tension was nil.

But... Wonder Woman was hella dope.

Oh, and yes, the music felt off through the entire movie.

[BD80]

Last person on the planet to see this movie (slow night at the mtn.devil house). Sloooooow bad. Even with a year of bad reviews, this was X-Men 3 bad. Nothing seemed to logically follow. Just a series of action scenes. Dramatic tension was nil.

But... Wonder Woman was hella dope.

Oh, and yes, the music felt off through the entire movie.

Did you see the theatre version or the special reserve, director's cut, platinum edition, R-rated blue ray edition? I'm hearing that the edit on the video release improves the story telling significantly.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Did you see the theatre version or the special reserve, director's cut, platinum edition, R-rated blue ray edition? I'm hearing that the edit on the video release improves the story telling significantly.

The only version for rental was the theatrical version. I have a difficult time believing that the two and a half hour movie would have been improved with more or longer scenes.

[BD80]

The only version for rental was the theatrical version. I have a difficult time believing that the two and a half hour movie would have been improved with more or longer scenes.

Maybe by inducing a coma-like sleep earlier in the movie, saving you from the rest while giving you rest?