WBB Wake Forest 64 Duke 58

[aswewere]

First win over Duke in 23 years Box. http://espn.go.com/womens-college-ba...meId=400842413

[hallcity]

This isn't like the Duke men losing to WFU or Lehigh. There is vastly less depth of talent in the women's game than the men's. This would be like the Duke men losing to a low end Division II team.

[chrishoke]

Wake is not a good team. They are also not a bad team. Wake and Duke have identical 6-7 records in the ACC.

[uh_no]

This isn't like the Duke men losing to WFU or Lehigh. There is vastly less depth of talent in the women's game than the men's. This would be like the Duke men losing to a low end Division II team.

no it's not. wake forest is ~123 in RPI. That would probably be ~200 in mens accounting for parity. so harvard.

[DU82]

This isn't like the Duke men losing to WFU or Lehigh. There is vastly less depth of talent in the women's game than the men's. This would be like the Duke men losing to a low end Division II team.

A bit of an exaggeration there. Wake is on a four game win streak, beating Pitt and State in that streak. Jen Hoover has her team playing much better than other coaches at Wake in the past two decades. Wake would win a number of mid-to-lower level conferences, and the depth of the women's game is a lot better than it used to be.

That said, it's still not a good loss. All the other losses in the season were to teams that are reasonably considered to be better than Duke (State being the one possible question-mark.) Until now, Duke had at least beaten the teams they were supposed to, but (as often criticized here and elsewhere) they couldn't/didn't beat teams they weren't.

There's no offensive flow for the team outside of transition. Long stretches of no scoring and poor shooting, followed (usually in the third) by a streak where everything works and you wonder where that team had been. The now even shorter bench doesn't allow for many options, as only two (Faith and Kyra) are playing much. Erin has a few moments when Oderah and Amber get into their usual foul trouble, but overall isn't up to speed. Lynee didn't make the trip (probably related to her reinjuring her knee on Thursday) and Azura remains out.

[hallcity]

no it's not. wake forest is ~123 in RPI. That would probably be ~200 in mens accounting for parity. so harvard.

123 in the women's game isn't anything like 123 in the men's game or 200 either. The decline once you get past the top 30 or so is precipitous. That's the problem with so much of the discussion of DWB -- false frames of reference. And this year's Harvard team would stand exactly zero chance of beating this year's Duke men's team.

[killerleft]

123 in the women's game isn't anything like 123 in the men's game or 200 either. The decline once you get past the top 30 or so is precipitous. That's the problem with so much of the discussion of DWB -- false frames of reference. And this year's Harvard team would stand exactly zero chance of beating this year's Duke men's team.

So the Duke women and Harvard men stand exactly the same chance of beating the men's team.

[Mike Corey]

This is a very bad loss for Duke. Injuries continue to be a problem, but we must do better.

We are very much in danger of failing to qualify for the NCAA tournament. Here's hoping we can find our footing, get healthy, and get back to playing the ball we saw in an impressive loss to ND.

[Faison1]

I am only asking out of curiosity...how long has McCallie been coach? Has it been 8 years?

[Mike Corey]

I am only asking out of curiosity...how long has McCallie been coach? Has it been 8 years?

Coach P has been Duke's coach since the 2007-08 season.

This season marks the second consecutive year with at least ten losses. That has not happened for DWB since 1992-94.

[aswewere]

Mike Flynn weighs in https://twitter.com/hashtag/goAskEX?src=hash

[devildeac]

Mike Flynn weighs in https://twitter.com/hashtag/goAskEX?src=hash

Who's Mike Flynn?

Alarming/disturbing to see.

[diablesseblu]

Mike Flynn weighs in https://twitter.com/hashtag/goAskEX?src=hash

Who is this guy?

[chrishoke]

Who is this guy?

Rebecca Greenwell is a follower.

[aswewere]

Who is this guy?

About the Author

Mike FlynnMike Flynn
Mike Flynn is owner and operator of Blue Star Basketball and U.S. Junior Nationals. He is a National Evaluator and publishes the Blue Star Report which ranks the top 100 high school girls basketball players in the nation. He also serves as Secretary of the Middle Atlantic District AAU, National Chair for AAU Lacrosse, Consultant to Gatorade for girls basketball, member of the McDonalds All –American selection committee, and Consultant for Nike Global Basketball.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Who's Mike Flynn?

Alarming/disturbing to see.

How do we know the source of the "altered" shirt?

[devildeac]

How do we know the source of the "altered" shirt?

We obviously don't, but reading this guy's "bio" (sounds reasonably knowledgeable and not necessarily a Coach P hater) and his tweet does raise an eyebrow a bit more for me, more as a Duke sports fan and straddling the neutral zone on the "issue" at this time.

[DukieInKansas]

We obviously don't, but reading this guy's "bio" (sounds reasonably knowledgeable and not necessarily a Coach P hater) and his tweet does raise an eyebrow a bit more for me, more as a Duke sports fan and straddling the neutral zone on the "issue" at this time.

One of his tweets indicated that a fan sent it to him. Makes me wonder if 1 shirt was altered at the game or if a lot were - apparently these were give-away shirts at the FSU game.

[devildeac]

One of his tweets indicated that a fan sent it to him. Makes me wonder if 1 shirt was altered at the game or if a lot were - apparently these were give-away shirts at the FSU game.

You'd think/hope it was only 1 shirt. I'd agree that the shirts were likely give-aways at/for the f$u game, analogous to what Cut wants at FB games, a "blue out." (Or, if you're talking about a Duke-unc game, a blow-out. And yes, you can take that any way you'd like...)

[Lid]

I've stayed out of this discussion until now but will say that I'm not at all surprised Duke lost to Wake. The trend lines have not been good for some time, IMHO (channeling sagegrouse here...), and a loss like this has felt inevitable. I've had season tickets for all of Coach P's tenure until this year, and have supported the team through a number of exciting victories and tough losses, both of personnel and of games. I have no personal axe to grind with the coach, and she's been extremely nice the few times I've interacted with her. I also think the world of the players on the women's team. It's been pretty clear for some time, though, that there are unaddressed issues within the program. I don't know what the solutions are, but I'll admit that I'm growing a tad annoyed with all of the extremely confident commentary from people who don't seem to have followed the team previously. Oversimplifying the situation isn't fair.

In any event, if the discussion is "why can't Coach P win with all that recruited talent," I don't think it's relevant why the recruited players weren't available, just that they weren't.

Beg to differ. It's reasonable to consider that part of recruiting or coaching involves retaining; transfers are quite different from injuries because players *choose* to transfer. Sometimes a player's external situation changes (ill family member) and she transfers. Sometimes a player's external situation changes (ill family member) and she doesn't transfer. Sometimes a player transfers and she chooses not to tell the fans why, or gives a palatable, but not entirely truthful, reason. None of these are the same as what happened to Chelsea Gray. Again, my opinion is that oversimplifying is unhelpful and unlikely to yield clarity.