MBB: Duke vs Virginia (Sat, 2/13/16, 4:30pm ET, ESPN) PreGame and In-Game Thread

[BobBender]

Yeah, I'd agree with this. I think that Bennett is also very much a "system" coach. The top-tier guys are usually (not always) looking to get to the NBA as quickly as possible, and that usually doesn't involve taking time to adapt to his system (especially when said system is an incredibly slow and grinding style, not an up-tempo style like UNC). If a star recruit happens to come from a school that has a similar approach to Bennett's, maybe he'll get that guy. But I do wonder if Bennett is better off not getting the top-tier guys.

He's done really well with the second/third-tier recruits (guys more in the Marshall Plumlee ranking range than the Grayson Allen range) in getting them to stay 4-5 years (he redshirts a decent number of guys and gets transfers), and those guys by their 3rd/4th years have really found their strides in the system. Perrantes, Anderson, Gill, Atkins, Harris, and others are examples of this. Brogdon is one of those rare cases of a guy who came in and in his 2nd year (1st active year) was an immediate impact guy.

Given that his success is very much system based, I almost wonder if his model is better suited to NOT look at the one-and-done level talents, but rather focus on middle-tier talent that is will to settle in and learn the system over a few years and then be a true impact player down the line.

I agree with most comments in this entire thread. But as a fan, I miss having 4 year players at Duke. There is nothing wrong...no, make that there is a lot to like about bringing in guys and watch them grow as players and see continuity in a program. As great as Jabari Parker was, the three stars from last year, and Brandon Ingram is this year, it's a weird era for Duke. There will be new stars next year, and it's just not the same. So I look at Bennett's method as being just 'traditional', rather than 'mid-major on steroids'.

[Troublemaker]

I agree with most comments in this entire thread. But as a fan, I miss having 4 year players at Duke.

Duke still has plenty of 4 year players, though. I would recommend focusing on guys like MP3, Amile, Matt, etc. I've greatly enjoyed watching their steady growth through the years and only wish that Amile hadn't gotten injured.

Don't be a star fingerer (where you finger a star player as your favorite player and end up disappointed annually when he leaves.)

[DarkstarWahoo]

Duke still has plenty of 4 year players, though. I would recommend focusing on guys like MP3, Amile, Matt, etc. I've greatly enjoyed watching their steady growth through the years and only wish that Amile hadn't gotten injured.

Don't be a star fingerer (where you finger a star player as your favorite player and end up disappointed annually when he leaves.)

Man, Matt Jones is a "stay and grow" guy for y'all for sure. I swear he roomed with Alaa Abdelnaby back in the day.

[NSDukeFan]

Re Amile, I'm thinking we will know when we know, and not a second before. That being said, given the "still feeling pain" statement Monday, I'm planning to avoid disappointment by assuming Amile will not play Saturday. That way, if he does play, I can be pleasantly surprised.

Man, Matt Jones is a "stay and grow" guy for y'all for sure. I swear he roomed with Alaa Abdelnaby back in the day.

Matt and Alaa may have grown up together, but I don't think they were roommates. That's pure speculation. 😉

[Jake]

The Cavaliers are on a 7 game winning streak and have been playing excellent defense. Tony Bennett should be recognized as one of the best coaches in the ACC and maybe the country. He has his team playing the pack line defense masterfully. He hasn't been able to recruit as well as some of the big time programs, but his kids are good athletes and stay around long enough to understand Bennett's defensive principles. They also are aggressive offensive players and are willing to spend the whole shot clock if necessary finding a good opportunity.

With both Duke and UVa playing well right now it looks to me as a nail biter. It may be decided on the basis of which team can keep their front court players on the floor. Too bad Amile is not yet ready as we could really use him for this one.

Don't look now but UVA has a top 10 recruiting class for next year. And that's with high 4/5* Mamadi Diakite having reclassified to 2015 to redshirt this year.

[Tripping William]

Saturday is Coach K's 69th birthday. If his team can score as many points as he has years, it will win.

[-jk]

Don't look now but UVA has a top 10 recruiting class for next year. And that's with high 4/5* Mamadi Diakite having reclassified to 2015 to redshirt this year.

Who's in the class? (Wait - it should be in the recruiting thread!)

-jk

[akg4y]

Who's in the class? (Wait - it should be in the recruiting thread!)

-jk

Kyle Guy - Burger Boy ESPN #24 overall
Ty Jerome - ESPN #42
Jay Huff - ESPN #71
Mamadi Diakate (reclassified to redshirt 2015) - ESPN #37
DeAndre Hunter - ESPN #82

Transfer: Austin Nichols (prior 5* recruit), 2 years of eligibility left. ESPN #15

We also had Sacha Killeya-Jones verbally committed but momma Jones got spooked about playing time once Mamadi got on the scene and made him bail for KY.


One and done's in general I dont think would work out for us... Perrantes is really the only player who logged significant starter minutes as a 1st year, it takes more than a year to really become comfortable in our defensive system. Wilkins took a major step forward this year defensively and thats why now he's a starter as a 2nd year. Bennett has said he's not opposed to 1 and dones, and has put out offers to players who are most likely going to be 1 and dones, however it remains to be seen how they would integrate, and whether or not they would really get the minutes they expect. That by itself probably keeps us from getting those commits... although as was mentioned in some of the posts above, it really does feel nice to have senior leaders and go to senior night to cheer on guys youve been watching progress and have helped your team succeed for 4 years, sometimes 5.

With regards to Bennett getting booted in the 2nd round repeatedly... keep in mind that each of the last 2 years we didnt really get upset. We played MSU teams that were underseeded both years... they were picked to win the whole thing 2 years ago even as a 4 seed and we lost in the Sweet 16, losing a heartbreakingly close game against maybe the only team in the tourney that posed a significant matchup problem for us. Last year we lost in the 2nd round to a #7 seed MSU team that reached the Final Four, again in a heartbreaker and we hadnt quite recovered from Justin Anderson's injury and reintegrated him back into our flow.

This year it needs to be UVA-MSU in the championship game and we need to kick them in the nuts.

[akg4y]

Yes, why is his recruiting so difficult? Beautiful arena, good school, plenty of DelMarVaDC exposure, close to Hampton Roads cradles of talent?

Maybe our Wahoo pal who checks in here sometimes can give us an opinion?

We're pretty much getting who Bennett wants at this point, so I wouldnt say recruiting is difficult. He doesnt go after many of the top 10-20 recruits... and the amazing thing is this year the guys that we signed were 70-150 when he started going after them, but now 2 of them are top 45, and two that were >100 are both top 85 now. He seems to have a knack for identifying talent early. SKJ verbally committed to us when he was in the 80s but then reneged as I mentioned above because of Mamadi, and now he's going to KY at #27 overall. The only players I would say that UVA fans have been hopeful for that we havent gotten have been a few 5* recruits, many of which wouldnt have been 4 year players and so that probably factored in significantly in their decisions not to come to UVA. Id say at a *minimum* we need players that expect to be there 2 years.

[killerleft]

I agree with most comments in this entire thread. But as a fan, I miss having 4 year players at Duke. There is nothing wrong...no, make that there is a lot to like about bringing in guys and watch them grow as players and see continuity in a program. As great as Jabari Parker was, the three stars from last year, and Brandon Ingram is this year, it's a weird era for Duke. There will be new stars next year, and it's just not the same. So I look at Bennett's method as being just 'traditional', rather than 'mid-major on steroids'.

I don't make it a point to subject other programs to close scruitiny, unless it the Chapaheeyans and they're being particularly stupid like they mostly are. But I'm almost certain that Tony Bennett is not turning away the likes of Jahlil Okafor or Jabari Parker so he can do it the traditional way. He is just very good at putting teams together with what he ends up having to work with.

[MCFinARL]

Kyle Guy - Burger Boy ESPN #24 overall
Ty Jerome - ESPN #42
Jay Huff - ESPN #71
Mamadi Diakate (reclassified to redshirt 2015) - ESPN #37
DeAndre Hunter - ESPN #82

Transfer: Austin Nichols (prior 5* recruit), 2 years of eligibility left. ESPN #15

We also had Sacha Killeya-Jones verbally committed but momma Jones got spooked about playing time once Mamadi got on the scene and made him bail for KY.


One and done's in general I dont think would work out for us... Perrantes is really the only player who logged significant starter minutes as a 1st year, it takes more than a year to really become comfortable in our defensive system. Wilkins took a major step forward this year defensively and thats why now he's a starter as a 2nd year. Bennett has said he's not opposed to 1 and dones, and has put out offers to players who are most likely going to be 1 and dones, however it remains to be seen how they would integrate, and whether or not they would really get the minutes they expect. That by itself probably keeps us from getting those commits... although as was mentioned in some of the posts above, it really does feel nice to have senior leaders and go to senior night to cheer on guys youve been watching progress and have helped your team succeed for 4 years, sometimes 5.

With regards to Bennett getting booted in the 2nd round repeatedly... keep in mind that each of the last 2 years we didnt really get upset. We played MSU teams that were underseeded both years... they were picked to win the whole thing 2 years ago even as a 4 seed and we lost in the Sweet 16, losing a heartbreakingly close game against maybe the only team in the tourney that posed a significant matchup problem for us. Last year we lost in the 2nd round to a #7 seed MSU team that reached the Final Four, again in a heartbreaker and we hadnt quite recovered from Justin Anderson's injury and reintegrated him back into our flow.

This year it needs to be UVA-MSU in the championship game and we need to kick them in the nuts.

Leaving out your last sentence, where of course I hope to see Duke in the championship game, I think you make some good points here. MSU is a scary team to see in your bracket, as they so often play brilliantly in the tournament after up-and-down seasons that leave them under seeded.

And I think you did have some difficulty reintegrating Justin Anderson last year, as Duke had in the tournament when Kyrie Irving came back in 2011. UVA had adjusted pretty well to playing without him.

[Doria]

That looks like a very good recruiting class for UVA. Kudos and congrats

I'll be pulling for them, tomorrow obviously excepted.

[Troublemaker]

One of the keys to the game will be how big a matchup problem Ingram turns out to be for UVA - will he cause big headaches, or will he turn out to be not that big a deal to them?

UVA fans are used to stretch 4s picking-and-popping being somewhat problematic for their defense, and he'll do some of that.

However, the more interesting and possibly even more problematic utilization of Ingram is as the ball-handler in the pick-n-roll. UVA will usually hard-hedge the pick-n-roll, so in a matchup with Ingram, UVA will very often have PF Wilkins and C Gill beyond the 3-pt line trapping Ingram, and Duke will have a 4-on-3 advantage behind them.

Is UVA's hard hedge going to be effective against a 6'9" ballhandler with a 7'3" wingspan who can find passing angles that 6'2" point guards can't? Can freshman Ingram deal with the hard hedge, see the court, and pick out the optimum Blue Devil to pass to that can take advantage of the momentary 4-on-3 situation? Sometimes it'll be MP3 at the rim for a dunk. Sometimes it'll be a wing shooter. The pass doesn't need to result in an open shot immediately. If it goes to Grayson, he can attack the closeout via penetration, for example.

If UVA switches instead of hard hedging, can Ingram take advantage of going 1-on-1 against Gill?

[Doria]

Ingram against Gill would be an interesting matchup, offensively.

Taking into account switches, who do you think we put on Brogden?

[English]

However, the more interesting and possibly even more problematic utilization of Ingram is as the ball-handler in the pick-n-roll. UVA will usually hard-hedge the pick-n-roll, so in a matchup with Ingram, UVA will very often have PF Wilkins and C Gill beyond the 3-pt line trapping Ingram, and Duke will have a 4-on-3 advantage behind them.

Is UVA's hard hedge going to be effective against a 6'9" ballhandler with a 7'3" wingspan who can find passing angles that 6'2" point guards can't? Can freshman Ingram deal with the hard hedge, see the court, and pick out the optimum Blue Devil to pass to that can take advantage of the momentary 4-on-3 situation? Sometimes it'll be MP3 at the rim for a dunk. Sometimes it'll be a wing shooter. The pass doesn't need to result in an open shot immediately. If it goes to Grayson, he can attack the closeout via penetration, for example.

If UVA switches instead of hard hedging, can Ingram take advantage of going 1-on-1 against Gill?

I find myself more and more relieved that we have several days between the UofL game and the upcoming UVa game for a couple of reasons--first and most obvious, the rest is invaluable. With keys players getting so much burn, each day of rest is crucial. I think we all have seen Duke struggle on some back-ends of quick turaround games (e.g., Miami, Cuse).

But perhaps as important, it gives the coaching staff practice time to gameplan and familiarize the younger guys for the pack-line. I thought during the Cuse game (again, the second game in quick succession), the guys didn't react well to the Cuse zone and resorted to jacking up contested 3's late in the shot clock after simply passing around the perimeter to that point. We shot poorly, but we also shot 60,000 3-pt that game*. It appeared to my layman's eye that there wasn't an ingrained gameplan to break down the zone. This way, the staff can hammer home a gameplan that the guys can learn and implement in the nearly week-long turnaround. I very much look forward to seeing how K and staff adjust to deploy Ingram against the stout D. If anyone is a game changer in this matchup, it's him--and I don't think I'm alone in enjoying BI coming into his own as the season progresses.

IMHO, the keys will be 1) ball control; 2) capitalizing on the open shot off an extra pass; 3) forcing UVa into contested shots; 4) rebounding. I think we score 68, we win--obviously easier said than done.


* All numbers approximate

[CDu]

I agree with those that say Ingram is the key. That's true on both ends. Ingram is the guy that creates headaches for a team that doesn't like to have their bigs stretched so far out on the perimeter. If he is playing well and stays out of foul trouble, he can be the key to victory.

The key will be him avoiding foul trouble, especially when UVa moves Gill to the PF spot and has Tobey in the game. Gill is a handful, and could easily draw fouls on Ingram in the post. But that would put Gill on Ingram on the other end, which is a matchup Ingram HAS to work hard to exploit.

I especially like the 4/5 pick and roll game whenever Tobey or Salt is in the game.

[Troublemaker]

Ingram against Gill would be an interesting matchup, offensively.

Taking into account switches, who do you think we put on Brogden?

Oh, I think it's almost a lock that Matt will be on Brogdon.

One of the great things about Derryck's recent improvement (which basically amounts to not being a mess on offense so that he can stay on the court for his defense on the PG) is that it's allowed Matt to play more wing defense which he's very good at. He slowed down both Georges-Hunt and Damion Lee, for example. Of course, Brogdon will be Matt's biggest test yet, as he's quite possibly the best player in the ACC. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Derryck's matchup against PG Perrantes will key, too. Perrantes isn't going to threaten Derryck with penetration very often, but he's great at using flare screens and off-ball movement in general to free himself up for his 3-pt shot; Perrantes is a 53% 3-pt shooter. "Stay in front" defense is different from "chase around screens" defense, and we'll see if Derryck is up to the task for the latter.

There's definitely a scenario where Grayson will have to play Perrantes and Derryck will be sent to the bench for Luke because Luke's shooting will be more valuable than Derryck's defense in this game.

[kAzE]

Oh, I think it's almost a lock that Matt will be on Brogdon.

One of the great things about Derryck's recent improvement (which basically amounts to not being a mess on offense so that he can stay on the court for his defense on the PG) is that it's allowed Matt to play more wing defense which he's very good at. He slowed down both Georges-Hunt and Damion Lee, for example. Of course, Brogdon will be Matt's biggest test yet, as he's quite possibly the best player in the ACC. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Derryck's matchup against PG Perrantes will key, too. Perrantes isn't going to threaten Derryck with penetration very often, but he's great at using flare screens and off-ball movement in general to free himself up for his 3-pt shot; Perrantes is a 53% 3-pt shooter. "Stay in front" defense is different from "chase around screens" defense, and we'll see if Derryck is up to the task for the latter.

There's definitely a scenario where Grayson will have to play Perrantes and Derryck will be sent to the bench for Luke because Luke's shooting will be more valuable than Derryck's defense in this game.

Derryck better bring a helmet . . . he's been getting absolutely annihilated on screens lately. Somebody call those picks!

[gumbomoop]

I admire Bennett, a lot. On some forgotten "Who's your second favorite ACC team thread," I voted for UVa, and would again, because of Bennett.

As for tomorrow's matchups, good points in recent ^ posts, and a belated thanks to CDu for a steady series of scouting reports on our opponents. Recommend his post #10 in this thread on the Hoos.

Eight is almost enough for Bennett, though I suppose we might see Nolte as the 9th for a few minutes. I tend to think of our matchup problem as mostly the obvious one of numbers. Essentially we need Thornton to play close to 30 minutes against the very good Perrantes, who's become a remarkably proficient 3-bomber, as well as a steady all-around guy. Big advantage to UVa, potentially.

On the wings, not counting Nolte, Hoos have 4 guys who play important minutes to our 3. Kennard can't be sub-par tomorrow, can't miss shots, make a bad pass, allow the ball even to graze the rim on a free throw, play just 12-15 minutes, as both Grayson and Matt will need a little rest, and we can't count on Derryck for 40 minutes.

Speaking of which. Krzyzewski seems to be counting on Brandon for 38-40 minutes pretty regularly now. Among the deciding factors will be whether Gill, Wilkins, and Tobey can wear down our only 2 inside guys. I think I recall a mini-trend in the last few games, whereby K takes Plumlee out a couple of times each half in a dead-ball situation just before one of the scheduled "under" breaks. So, even though it's fair to say K goes with a 6-man rotation, it seems he's comfortable using Jeter in a very limited but strategic way to give Marshall just a little extra rest twice in each half. Yes?

Is Brandon as much as Grayson a never-gets-tired "Havlicek"? Can UVa wear Brandon down?

[Hoo in Maryland]

to see the characterizations here of recent Virginia teams, recruiting, and athleticism. Joe Harris, Justin Anderson, and Mike Scott are in the NBA (Harris is hurt and will hopefully catch on somewhere), and I'd like to think Brogdon will be too (though I doubt he'll get it, he deserves serious consideration for ACC POY and even NPOY). Yes, Bennett has turned mid-level recruits into top-shelf/ all-ACC players (Perrantes, Akil Mitchell, Darion Atkins), but that's a testament to either his coaching prowess or his eye for talent. I think the national media buys into the idea that Virginia is a Hoosiers-type collection of only marginally athletic players, but that really overlooks the talent that has been assembled (this talent is looking for its third straight regular season championship and second tournament championship in three years). And, as noted, the incoming class is going to be as strong as the ones who are leaving this year (Brogdon , Tobey, Gill (x-fer), Nolte; Anderson was in that class too but left one year early). So, maybe not one-and-dones, but hardly ragtag overachievers.