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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Undisclosed

    The Bill Walton Champion, 2015-2016

    Okay, Ky beat Duke and now UCLA has beaten KY.

    Trying to see where UCLA may get tripped up, but at 5-3 I guess the answer is "anywhere"

    Next two games are hosting Long Beach State, then they go to the Zags December 12. So my guess is, the Zags may be next in line. Long Beach State is 4-4 though, so they may catch UCLA in a let-down game.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    For those just joining, here's the backstory to the Bill Walton Championship:

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I was watching the Cal-Stanford game last night (great win for Johnny D's kids) and Bill Walton was doing the game.

    He said that Cal was No. 1 because they just beat No. 1 (Arizona) and that's the way "algebra" works -- to be No. 1 you have to beat No. 1 (don't get me started on his use of the word algebra).

    Even if you concede his system, there was a flaw in his reasoning -- Arizona never beat No. 1 ... they were voted No. 1 by the pollsters.

    So who should be No. 1 in the Walton Universe?

    That depends on who starts as No. 1.

    If you start with preseason No. 1 Kentucky, it goes from Kentucky to Michigan State to UNC to Texas to Michigan State again to Michigan and most recently to Indiana, which hasn't lost since beating Michigan.

    But you could start with the defending national champ -- Louisville. In that case, it goes from Louisville to UNC to UAB to LSU to Rhode Island to St. Louis, which is still No. 1.

    Which do you think has the better case? Indiana? Or St. Louis?
    -jk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    That previous thread mentions the silly NBA Championship Belt, to be passed from team to team. The same could be done here. I suggest this belt for the Bill Walton Champion:

    waltonbelt.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Okay, Ky beat Duke and now UCLA has beaten KY.

    Trying to see where UCLA may get tripped up, but at 5-3 I guess the answer is "anywhere"

    Next two games are hosting Long Beach State, then they go to the Zags December 12. So my guess is, the Zags may be next in line. Long Beach State is 4-4 though, so they may catch UCLA in a let-down game.
    It's simple. Root for Long Beach State to win at UCLA this Sunday, and for Duke to beat Long Beach State on December 30. Then Duke gets the belt back.

    The only flaw in this logic is that Long Beach State has to KEEP the belt in between, which is tricky. They have a road game against Pepperdine, a home game against Tampa, but then play at Oregon and at Arizona. (Their schedule is nuts. UCLA is the second game they play this weekend.)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    That previous thread mentions the silly NBA Championship Belt, to be passed from team to team. The same could be done here. I suggest this belt for the Bill Walton Champion:

    waltonbelt.jpg



    It's simple. Root for Long Beach State to win at UCLA this Sunday, and for Duke to beat Long Beach State on December 30. Then Duke gets the belt back.

    The only flaw in this logic is that Long Beach State has to KEEP the belt in between, which is tricky. They have a road game against Pepperdine, a home game against Tampa, but then play at Oregon and at Arizona. (Their schedule is nuts. UCLA is the second game they play this weekend.)
    the best chance (i think) for duke to get the belt back pre tourney is for UCLA to first lose to UNC on 12/19, and then for it to spend the spring in the ACC.
    1200. DDMF.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Okay, Ky beat Duke and now UCLA has beaten KY.

    Trying to see where UCLA may get tripped up, but at 5-3 I guess the answer is "anywhere"

    Next two games are hosting Long Beach State, then they go to the Zags December 12. So my guess is, the Zags may be next in line. Long Beach State is 4-4 though, so they may catch UCLA in a let-down game.
    Tark is Back!!!!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    the best chance (i think) for duke to get the belt back pre tourney is for UCLA to first lose to UNC on 12/19, and then for it to spend the spring in the ACC.
    Root for the Cheats? No way, I'd rather UCLA keep the belt all the way up to the Tourney and then we beat them to get it back. GoDuke!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Root for the Cheats? No way, I'd rather UCLA keep the belt all the way up to the Tourney and then we beat them to get it back. GoDuke!
    Help me with the formal logic here. Is it logically inevitable that the National Champion ends up with the Bill Walton Championship Belt?

    Kindly,
    Sage
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Help me with the formal logic here. Is it logically inevitable that the National Champion ends up with the Bill Walton Championship Belt?

    Kindly,
    Sage
    If the belt makes it into the ivy league, it could avoid making it to the ncaa tournament entirely. This is because the ivy league has no conference tournament.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by subzero02 View Post
    If the belt makes it into the ivy league, it could avoid making it to the ncaa tournament entirely. This is because the ivy league has no conference tournament.
    Or it could go a team that wins out through its conference tournament but is ineligible for the NCAA Tournament.

    Or a team that goes all-Al McGuire and turns down an NCAA bid and goes to the NIT instead.

    The mind boggles.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santa Cruz CA
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Or it could go a team that wins out through its conference tournament but is ineligible for the NCAA Tournament.

    Or a team that goes all-Al McGuire and turns down an NCAA bid and goes to the NIT instead.

    The mind boggles.
    It's supposed to. It's the Bill Walton belt. From watching him broadcast games, it seems his mind is always set to boggle mode.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    It's supposed to. It's the Bill Walton belt. From watching him broadcast games, it seems his mind is always set to boggle mode.
    I've long viewed Walton as the positive answer to the question "Is it possible to spend too much time at Grateful Dead concerts?"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by subzero02 View Post
    If the belt makes it into the ivy league, it could avoid making it to the ncaa tournament entirely. This is because the ivy league has no conference tournament.
    Oh no way! There has to be some kind of sub-clause to deal with that scenario. Like a boring play in game or a phantom face mask call that replays the possession of the belt.

    Yeah, like that.
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Athens, GA

    Conference tournaments

    Do all of the conference tournaments include all teams? That is, do any have, say, 12 teams but only the top 8 play in their tournament? I think this was the case for some conferences at one time or another but I'm not sure if it still is.

    If so, that would be another way the Walton belt would not converge on the NCAA champ.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsondevil View Post
    Do all of the conference tournaments include all teams? That is, do any have, say, 12 teams but only the top 8 play in their tournament? I think this was the case for some conferences at one time or another but I'm not sure if it still is.

    If so, that would be another way the Walton belt would not converge on the NCAA champ.
    It could also go to UNC, and then the NCAA could give them the death penalty mid-season before their next game. At minimum, a post-season ban.

    One can always hope.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Oh no way! There has to be some kind of sub-clause to deal with that scenario. Like a boring play in game or a phantom face mask call that replays the possession of the belt.

    Yeah, like that.
    there would have to be a title unification game.
    1200. DDMF.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    It could also go to UNC, and then the NCAA could give them the death penalty mid-season before their next game. At minimum, a post-season ban.

    One can always hope.
    In which case the Walton Belt would be in Indy and by default Butler would hold the belt.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    MKE
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Oh no way! There has to be some kind of sub-clause to deal with that scenario. Like a boring play in game or a phantom face mask call that replays the possession of the belt.

    Yeah, like that.
    Or just give it by default to the 13-time NFL League Champion.

  18. #18
    I support this being a regular DBR thing. Note that it could also be Northern Iowa, based on the preseason #1 method.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    I support this being a regular DBR thing. Note that it could also be Northern Iowa, based on the preseason #1 method.
    True. It may be like boxing back in the day where you had different sanctioning bodies recognizing different champs.

    Or like back in the old old day where you had a Pope, and sometimes one or more Antipopes.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsondevil View Post
    Do all of the conference tournaments include all teams? That is, do any have, say, 12 teams but only the top 8 play in their tournament? I think this was the case for some conferences at one time or another but I'm not sure if it still is.

    If so, that would be another way the Walton belt would not converge on the NCAA champ.
    I haven't seen the scorecard on how many teams make it to the XYZ conference tournament, but you are correct that in the past (including 2015), many conferences' tournament formats (for example the Ohio Valley Conference) have fewer than all of the teams invited to the tournament. On top of that are the schools who are ineligible for their conference tournament for one reason or another. This year, I know that Alcorn State, Florida A&M, Stetson, and Central Arkansas are ineligible because of APR issues. [Stetson is a duck-billed platypus here, because they ARE eligible for the Atlantic Sun Conference tourney, but ineligible for the NCAA's; if Stetson wins the conference tournament, the regular season champ gets the automatic bid, unless Stetson is the regular season champ, then it goes to whoever came in second.]

    At least one team, Southern Mississippi, is ineligible because of a self-imposed ban. Also teams are ineligible because they are still transitioning into Division 1. I think these are all related to the D-1 transition: Massachusetts-Lowell, Northern Kentucky, Abliene Christian, Incarnate Word, and Grand Canyon.

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