UNC Athletic Scandal: New Wainstein Document Details

[Henderson]

The referenced main article shows a user comment at the bottom:

"Listen, just about every school in America cheats. We just happened to get caught. The NCAA ain't gonna do nothing. Roy already guaranteed that. As long as we keep winning titles I don't care what they do behind closed doors. ..."

There are no doubt quite a few UNC fans who believe this exact thing.



Somebody should ask Carol Folt, the Hat, Bubba, Sylvia, and Roy if they agree with the comment. Unless they distance themselves from such statements, the comment represents The Carolina Way. Because (as the poster makes clear) this is a pretty commonly expressed sentiment among UNC fans.

[swood1000]

Crowder’s recollection is corroborated by an email in which she tells Wayne Walden that one of his players can take a Sahle lecture class without having to attend,” the report said.

Hold on a second there. Do we have that email? That looks pretty much like the smoking gun in the hand of Wayne Walden, and through him Roy Williams. I wonder why the enforcement staff didn't charge this. We'll find out when we get to look at Walden's interview transcript. Maybe Walden made it sound credible that he thought that this class was an independent study or that the instructor had the authority to convert it into an independent study.

[BigWayne]

Meanwhile, after getting suspended for the incredibly tough games against Wake and UVA for beating up some ATO members, Stewart and Hughes are getting reactivated in time for the game against Pitt next week.

[BigWayne]

Hold on a second there. Do we have that email? That looks pretty much like the smoking gun in the hand of Wayne Walden, and through him Roy Williams. I wonder why the enforcement staff didn't charge this. We'll find out when we get to look at Walden's interview transcript. Maybe Walden made it sound credible that he thought that this class was an independent study or that the instructor had the authority to convert it into an independent study.

It might be in the big dump and the DTH has had it for a while already. The carolinacommitment site does state that yesterday's dump is in response to records requests by the N&O and the DTH. So now the race is on to figure out which of these big files has Walden's emails.

[Henderson]

Anyone else notice the evolution of the UNC-CH faithful in the past few months?

Step 1: "We didn't do anything wrong. We don't cheat. It's not the Carolina Way."

Step 2: "We didn't do anything any other school doesn't do. It's not cheating; it's just the way things work. Corey Maggette, Lance Thomas."

Step 3: "There were bad apples at UNC. Those bad apples cheated. But it was academic cheating, so leave the athletics programs alone."

Step 4: "Some athletic programs cheated. But not men's basketball."

Step 5: "OK, men's basketball benefited from some cheating too, but Roy didn't know and the cheaters are gone, so there shouldn't be MBB sanctions."

Step 6: "OK, ok, we cheated. But what are you going to do about it? The NCAA ain't gonna do squat. And good, because I don't care about cheating; I only care about winning. F all of y'all."

[Nosbleuatu]

Anyone else notice the evolution of the UNC-CH faithful in the past few months?

Step 1: "We didn't do anything wrong. We don't cheat. It's not the Carolina Way."

Step 2: "We didn't do anything any other school doesn't do. It's not cheating; it's just the way things work. Corey Maggette, Lance Thomas."

Step 3: "There were bad apples at UNC. Those bad apples cheated. But it was academic cheating, so leave the athletics programs alone."

Step 4: "Some athletic programs cheated. But not men's basketball."

Step 5: "OK, men's basketball benefited from some cheating too, but Roy didn't know and the cheaters are gone, so there shouldn't be MBB sanctions."

Step 6: "OK, ok, we cheated. But what are you going to do about it? The NCAA ain't gonna do squat. And good, because I don't care about cheating; I only care about winning. F all of y'all."

Reading through this, I was thinking of the seven stages of grief...

1. Shock or Disbelief
2. Denial
3. Anger
4. Bargaining
5. Guilt
6. Depression
7. Acceptance

Seems like UNC has made it to stage #3. I could see #4 leading up to meetings with the COI, but then I'm not sure what will come next. Skip #5 and go right to #6? Or jump back down to #1 and start over?

[swood1000]

Reading through this, I was thinking of the seven stages of grief...

1. Shock or Disbelief
2. Denial
3. Anger
4. Bargaining
5. Guilt
6. Depression
7. Acceptance

Seems like UNC has made it to stage #3. I could see #4 leading up to meetings with the COI, but then I'm not sure what will come next. Skip #5 and go right to #6? Or jump back down to #1 and start over?

I think they're still at 2. The anger we see is related to being falsely accused, different from the anger that will come when denial is no longer possible.

[TampaDuke]

Not sure where they get this, but the DTH article also mentions that UNC has to respond to the NCAA's Notice of Allegations in the spring.

In the spring, the University must reply to the NCAA’s Notice of Allegations, which cited the school for five level one violations — namely a lack of institutional control. A few months later, UNC’s yearlong probation implemented by its accrediting agency, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, will end, forcing the agency to make a ruling on the school’s status.

[swood1000]

Not sure where they get this, but the DTH article also mentions that UNC has to respond to the NCAA's Notice of Allegations in the spring.

In the spring, the University must reply to the NCAA’s Notice of Allegations, which cited the school for five level one violations — namely a lack of institutional control. A few months later, UNC’s yearlong probation implemented by its accrediting agency, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, will end, forcing the agency to make a ruling on the school’s status.

They no doubt are figuring in the additional 90 days they will get after the enforcement staff amends the NOA. If they received the amended NOA on 11/1/2015 their response would be due 1/30/2016. Maybe they have reason to think that the amended NOA will not be arriving until 12/1/2015, which would make their response due 2/29/2016 (leap year). That would make for great discussions during the tournament.

[BLPOG]

Page 12 of the Cadwalader report, in a section titled C. Collection and Review of Electronic Documents, states

We formulated a list of 48 keywords that related to the subject matter of our investigation – words such as “paper class” and “independent study” – and our IT specialists ran these terms against the 1.6 million electronic documents in the database. Our staff then reviewed emails and documents that hit on those terms to identify those that had some bearing on the issues we were investigating. We then used the information gleaned from those emails to craft our investigation and interview strategy.

Was there ever provided a full list of those 48 keywords? I think that would be a fruitful area for inquiry, now that some of the primary - albeit redacted - sources are available.

[luburch]

Anyone else notice the evolution of the UNC-CH faithful in the past few months?

Step 1: "We didn't do anything wrong. We don't cheat. It's not the Carolina Way."

Step 2: "We didn't do anything any other school doesn't do. It's not cheating; it's just the way things work. Corey Maggette, Lance Thomas."

Step 3: "There were bad apples at UNC. Those bad apples cheated. But it was academic cheating, so leave the athletics programs alone."

Step 4: "Some athletic programs cheated. But not men's basketball."

Step 5: "OK, men's basketball benefited from some cheating too, but Roy didn't know and the cheaters are gone, so there shouldn't be MBB sanctions."

Step 6: "OK, ok, we cheated. But what are you going to do about it? The NCAA ain't gonna do squat. And good, because I don't care about cheating; I only care about winning. F all of y'all."

This is completely inaccurate. We know for a fact that the majority of UNC graduates cannot count past three

[captmojo]

Reading through this, I was thinking of the seven stages of grief...

1. Shock or Disbelief
2. Denial
3. Anger
4. Bargaining
5. Guilt
6. Depression
7. Acceptance

Seems like UNC has made it to stage #3. I could see #4 leading up to meetings with the COI, but then I'm not sure what will come next. Skip #5 and go right to #6? Or jump back down to #1 and start over?

It's a good analogy, but I think they have jumped all out of order.
I think of the Don Knotts psychiatrist character in 'No Time for Sargeants'. "He did do it completely wrong."

Then again, luburch just may have the proper answer.

[Skitzle]

The referenced main article shows a user comment at the bottom:

"Listen, just about every school in America cheats. We just happened to get caught. The NCAA ain't gonna do nothing. Roy already guaranteed that. As long as we keep winning titles I don't care what they do behind closed doors. ..."

There are no doubt quite a few UNC fans who believe this exact thing.

Roy Williams wrote this comment. You can tell because he referred to himself in the 3rd person.

[devildeac]

Meanwhile, after getting suspended for the incredibly tough games against Wake and UVA for beating up some ATO members, Stewart and Hughes are getting reactivated in time for the game against Pitt next week.

the c*rolina way...

[Henderson]

They no doubt are figuring in the additional 90 days they will get after the enforcement staff amends the NOA. If they received the amended NOA on 11/1/2015 their response would be due 1/30/2016. Maybe they have reason to think that the amended NOA will not be arriving until 12/1/2015, which would make their response due 2/29/2016 (leap year). That would make for great discussions during the tournament.

That would explain a stall-ball defense by UNC-CH. It goes like this: "If we're going to get hammered, let's get as much as possible before that happens. We might have a really good MBB team this year. And think about what wounds that would heal. So stall. If our response to the NOA is due 2/29, there's no way the COI imposes sanctions during the tourney."

[BD80]

... Money quote from Sylvia Hatchell: "this will be our finest hour". Not only channeling Winston Churchill, but comparing UNC to Apollo 13. ...

Well, she does resemble Winston ...

Apologies to Winston, his ancestors and descendants

Not sure where they get this, but the DTH article also mentions that UNC has to respond to the NCAA's Notice of Allegations in the spring.

Which spring?

[devildeac]

Well, she does resemble Winston ...

Apologies to Winston, his ancestors and descendants



Which spring?

'My dear, you are ugly, and what’s more, you are disgustingly ugly. But tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be disgustingly ugly.'

Winston Churchill


Or something like that...

[Merlindevildog91]

I am stuck waiting for the phone to ring and listening to recorded interviews. To occupy my time, I began with the first section of the report. Learning specialists and "A Comprehensive Learning Center: Not Your Mama's Study Hall."

Memo to the authors: The word for a study cubicle is not "carol." Even if that passes spell check, it is still the wrong word. (page 31)

[BD80]

... Memo to the authors: The word for a study cubicle is not "carol." Even if that passes spell check, it is still the wrong word. (page 31)

Considering what was taking place inside of the cubicle, perhaps the chosen spelling is more apt

[Indoor66]

'My dear, you are ugly, and what’s more, you are disgustingly ugly. But tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be disgustingly ugly.'

Winston Churchill


Or something like that...

I believe it is, more properly (as is appropriate for Sir Winston):

“'You are drunk Sir Winston, you are disgustingly drunk. 'Yes, Mrs. Braddock, I am drunk. But you, Mrs. Braddock are ugly, and disgustingly fat. But, tomorrow morning, I, Winston Churchill will be sober.”