UNC Athletics Scandal: Roy/Hat lying to recruits

[porcophile]

a preemptive strike?

"Strike" is too bold a word for this flabby response.

[JBDuke]

I'm curious about the basis for the SACS finding that the principle of academic freedom was violated. I think I understand the basis for the others. Any clue how academic freedom was damaged by Carolina's actions?

[bedeviled]

I'm curious about the basis for the SACS finding that the principle of academic freedom was violated. I think I understand the basis for the others. Any clue how academic freedom was damaged by Carolina's actions?

I suspect the finding is in reference to steering students into specific disciplines. Not only did they encourage athletes to take specific classes/majors, but evidence seems to indicate that they sometimes signed students up for courses without the students' knowledge or choice.

[Nosbleuatu]

I'm curious about the basis for the SACS finding that the principle of academic freedom was violated. I think I understand the basis for the others. Any clue how academic freedom was damaged by Carolina's actions?

I would guess that it has to do with steering players into specific classes and majors.

[JBDuke]

I suspect the finding is in reference to steering students into specific disciplines. Not only did they encourage athletes to take specific classes/majors, but evidence seems to indicate that they sometimes signed students up for courses without the students' knowledge or choice.

I would guess that it has to do with steering players into specific classes and majors.

That makes sense. Thanks for the replies.

[oldnavy]

A friend tells me that just before the NCAA NOA was released, UNC announced two new groups charged with preventing future "irregularities." One will "identify any redundancies, gaps and inconsistencies," the other "has been charged with reinforcing ethical high-integrity behavior." (It takes a college degree to write prose like that.)
If this is being orchestrated by UNC's p.r. consultants, the university isn't getting its money's worth.

Well they HAVE to do SOMETHING the clock has started ticking...

I am sure that the next 12 months are going to be painful for the folks responsible for demonstrating how they have "fixed" the problems.

I don't know about the rest of you, but it has gotten to the point for me that anytime I read a response from UNC, the voice in my head translates it into the teacher noise from Charlie Brown... "wa, wa, wa, wa, wa".

They are so full of it that I can't even hear them anymore...

[MarkD83]

Well they HAVE to do SOMETHING the clock has started ticking...

I am sure that the next 12 months are going to be painful for the folks responsible for demonstrating how they have "fixed" the problems.

I don't know about the rest of you, but it has gotten to the point for me that anytime I read a response from UNC, the voice in my head translates it into the teacher noise from Charlie Brown... "wa, wa, wa, wa, wa".

They are so full of it that I can't even hear them anymore...

I actually think about Kevin Bacon in one of the last scenes in Animal House. Right before he gets stampeded at the parade he is shouting "Remain calm. All is well."

[75Crazie]

I still chuckle at the very small gains UNC has made in football, which is where I think this whole thing began. I don't care enough to research it, but how many top tens rankings have they had since this all began? Not many, so they basically jeopardized and ruined the reputation of what was a HIGHLY respected basketball program in an attempt to get the football program to a top tier program, and they FAILED. Priceless.

Small quibble: It didn't begin with football, it was exposed by the football program piling on to a good thing that was set up for basketball. There is significant evidence that the whole AFAM no-show class mess was up and running in the early 90s. I think it is more than coincidence that their nearest neighbor was finishing up a run of four straight MBB final fours, the last two of which were championships, around the same time.

But the point is well made: The whole system was exposed by the football program trying to get in on a good thing and being so inept at doing so. The poor results on the field is the icing on the cake that is Carolina hubris.

[rocketeli]

for those who think this isn't much of a punishment-this is the academic equivalent of a sanction on your medical license or law license from your state medical board or bar. It might not sound harsh to the layperson, but it's devastating for the professional involved.

[Tripping William]

Small quibble: It didn't begin with football, it was exposed by the football program piling on to a good thing that was set up for basketball. There is significant evidence that the whole AFAM no-show class mess was up and running in the early 90s. I think it is more than coincidence that their nearest neighbor was finishing up a run of five straight MBB final fours, the last two of which were championships, around the same time.

But the point is well made: The whole system was exposed by the football program trying to get in on a good thing and being so inept at doing so. The poor results on the field is the icing on the cake that is Carolina hubris.

FIFY.

Otherwise agree completely.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Does anyone know if the info contained in the SACS report will be accessible and used as part of the sanctions discussion by the NCAA. If so, does the NCAA even need to hear an argument from unc regarding LOIC? They can simply hold up a copy of the SACS report, and the discussion ends. Sort of like what other coaches are doing with fedora's recruits😊. It's gonna get worse Larry! Get out before the ship goes completely under!

[devildeac]

I dug around last evening and heard this late-breaking response from the ACC office:

220px-Gryllus_campestris_MHNT.jpg

In fact, I think I heard more responses the longer the night went on :

220px-African.field.cricket.arp.jpg

[dchen09]

Does anyone know the impact on research funding this could possibly have? I imagine scholarships will be minimally impacted since I doubt anyone wants to punish kids but I can easily see NIH and various other organizations decide to fund grant proposals from other schools due to the probation. That will be a huge impact on the University.

[sagegrouse]

There's already a pretty big contingent in the Carolina camp who think Folt and the BOG were wrong to hire Wainstein because the scandal was "contained" at that point, and all Wainstein did was breathe new life into it. Yes, it's a deluded worldview ("Hey, let's blame the people who tried to discover the extent of the fraud, rather than the fraud itself, for our woes"), and yes, it doesn't get much traction outside of TarheelWorld. But don't underestimate how prevalent this thread of, um..."logic" is among the UNC faithful. Just this week, good ol' Art Chansky penned this gem, discussing the NCAA's NOA against Carolina:



Here is Art's full column, if you dare. Just remember to shower afterwards.

Thanks, Tom B.

We see a new movement at UNC and a new activity, "self-immolation."

The UNC Board of Governors (and probably the Chancellor Carol Folt) were horribly embarrassed with what had been revealed, particularly the incomplete, inconsistent and incorrect responses that were being given by the Athletic Department and certain administrators to the chancellor, Board itself, and outside regulators. To the Board's credit, the members said, in essence: "Not on my watch. We're going to get to the bottom of this and clean it up." Thus, the Wainstein Report was commissioned.

Now the UNC diehards, best given voice by dopey Art Chansky, are blaming the whole problem on the Board of Governors. In other words, "Never mind that we did wrong, this problem was 'contained' until the Wainstein Report. This predicament is totally the fault of the Board and the Chancellor." If this movement to blame the Wainstein Report gets traction, I wouldn't be surprised if the Board turns over and Carol Folt departs for calmer waters. But it could be really ugly and prolong the agony in Chapel Hill. It will be interesting to see of the faculty voice is heard.

No surprise to Duke fans: the fires of hell are beginning to burn in Chapel Hill.

[mgtr]

for those who think this isn't much of a punishment-this is the academic equivalent of a sanction on your medical license or law license from your state medical board or bar. It might not sound harsh to the layperson, but it's devastating for the professional involved.

This is a key point, and I am shocked that we have not heard en masse from the tenured faculty - it is really their ox which has been gored.

[BD80]

... No surprise to Duke fans: the fires of hell are beginning to burn in Chapel Hill.

It is bad enough when crap hits the fan.

But when it starts to burn?

Now imagine 20+ years of crap, from prodigious crap producers, burning.

And the school I love just 8 miles away, downwind.

Sad, Sad times.

[moonpie23]

for those who think this isn't much of a punishment-this is the academic equivalent of a sanction on your medical license or law license from your state medical board or bar. It might not sound harsh to the layperson, but it's devastating for the professional involved.

right, but everyone, including SACS is missing the POINT!!!! they DON'T CARE ABOUT "probation"!! as long as those banners are left un-touched, they don't care if the school burns to the ground.

Look at how every single reference to the entire scandal is finalized......"NO BANNERS VACATED"....


they got away with it....that's not a sigh of relief you hear coming from chapel hill, that's laughter....

[Duke95]

This is a key point, and I am shocked that we have not heard en masse from the tenured faculty - it is really their ox which has been gored.

The report has just been released, and I expect quite a few of the faculty are on vacation.

[moonpie23]

Just this week, good ol' Art Chansky penned this gem, discussing the NCAA's NOA against Carolina:



Here is Art's full column, if you dare. Just remember to shower afterwards.

i got a bit sick just reading the first couple of paragraphs there...

[swood1000]

But, but, but . . . . *everyone* does it.

This is the klutz defense: "We only differ from everybody else in that we are klutzes and get caught."