Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Road Games

  1. #1

    Road Games

    Since the subject has come up again -- with ESPN making a big deal about Duke playing a rare non-conference road game -- I thought it might be interesting to put the whole home/road/neutral debate into context by looking at what the rest of the ACC does in that regard.

    We all know that Coach K would rather play neutral court games to better prepare his team for the NCAA. What about his peers? Here's my breakdown of ACC non-conference schedules this year:

    Boston College -- No road games, four neutral court games, eight home games.

    Clemson -- one road game (a traditional home-and-home series with South Carolina that is in Columbia this year), three neutral games, eight home games

    Duke -- two road games, four neutral court games, seven home games. Note: One road game was dictated by the ACC; the other is at St. John's in MSG. I don't some don't like to count that, but it officially a home court for St. John's according to the NCAA and their home games there are set up very differently from when Duke plays, say, Gonzaga or Michigan State in the Garden. St. John's plays 10 games in the Garden this year -- more than they play in Carneseca Area on campus.

    Florida State -- one road game (at Miss State), three neutral court games, nine home games

    Georgia Tech -- two road games, three neutral court games, seven home games. Note: One road game is at Northwestern in the ACC Big Ten Challenge (if we don't get credit for that, nobody else does either); the other is at Dayton

    Louisville -- One road game (at Western Kentucky), two neutral court games, 10 home games

    Miami -- two road games (at Florida and at Charlotte), four neutral court games, seven home games

    North Carolina -- two road games, five neutral court games, six home games. Note: One of the road games is quite good -- at Kentucky (like the Clemson-SC series, this is a home-and-home series that happens to be at Kentucky this year). But the other road game is phony -- against UNCG in the Greensboro Coliseum, which will be 75-25 pro-UNC. I checked the game against Davidson in Charlotte and that's the only game the 'Cats play in the Time-Warner Arena this season. Looking at this schedule, it looks like Roy has embraced K's preferred neutral court strategy.

    NC State -- One road game, one neutral court game, 11 home games. Note: the one road game is dictated by the ACC (Purdue in the Challenge).

    Notre Dame -- No road games, three neutral games, 10 home games

    Pittsburgh -- two road games, four neutral games, eight home games. Note: One of the road games was dictated by the ACC (at Indiana in the Challenge); the other was a game at Hawaii to tune up for the Maui Classic. One of the neutral games is against Duquesne in Pittsburgh (but neither team's home court).

    Syracuse -- two road games, two neutral games, nine home games. Note: One of the road games is dictated by the ACC (at Michigan in the Challenge)l; the other is a good one at Villanova. The two neutral games were in MSG, the home away from home for the 'Cuse.

    Virginia -- three road games, two neutral games, seven home games. Note: One of the road games was dictated by the ACC (at Maryland in the Challenge). The other two are in-state -- at James Madison and at VCU.

    Virginia Tech -- Two road games, two neutral court games, nine home games: Note: One of the road games dictated by the ACC (at Penn State in the Challenge); they also play at West Virginia later this month.

    Wake Forest three road games, one neutral game, nine home games. Note: Three legitimate road games -- none dictated by the ACC -- at Tulane, at Arkansas and at Richmond

    So break it down ... does Duke play the least road games? No, that would be BC and Notre Dame (zero), followed by Clemson, FSU, Louisville and NC State (one). Only Virginia and Wake Forest play more road games OOC than Duke.

    Does Duke play the most home games? Again, no -- NC State (11), Louisville (10), Notre Dame (10), Syracuse (9), Virginia Tech (9), FSU (9), Wake Forest (9), Clemson (8), Pitt (8) and Boston College (8) all play more. Only UNC (6) plays less.

    There have been seasons when Duke avoided OOC road games (including last year), because K would rather play top teams on neutral courts. But this isn't one of those years.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Also, OF, I have always thought that Duke would have trouble scheduling home-and-homes with the big power schools 'cuz of the small size of Cameron, and I can certainly understand why, say, Kentucky would balk at such an arrangement. I also understand why Duke would not be interested in a two-for-one swap.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  3. #3
    Very good breakdown. With the expansion of the ACC over the last few years, the road game argument is pretty pointless now.

  4. #4
    Yeah, while I do wish we would replace or add to the St John's home-and-home series with a better opponent like Kentucky or UNC do, the whole meme about road games in the challenge or at St John's "not counting" is stupid. Is the game at Wisconsin easier because the ACC scheduled it?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    As we've discussed many times, can we even talk about playing true road games without talking about money?

    The argument for playing true road games always comes down to building "toughness".

    The argument for playing series where the games are played at larger neutral courts is always about money and preparing for NCAA tournament venues.

    By allowing the students to attend games for free, Duke leaves a ton of money on the table. K, in his quest to independently financially endow as much of the men's basketball program as he can before he rides off into the sunset, opts to structure "home and home" series where the program can maximize its financial take. To me, that $ is worth the trade off.

    K won't be around forever, and the next coach may change his stance on the true road game thing. But, I'd like, for once, a reporter or journalist to discuss and examine the financial levers driving the decision rather than just say that Duke is scared to play true road games and also does so to protect a "now meaningless" non-con home winning streak.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Since the subject has come up again -- with ESPN making a big deal about Duke playing a rare non-conference road game -- I thought it might be interesting to put the whole home/road/neutral debate into context by looking at what the rest of the ACC does in that regard.
    Which of ESPN's hacks is at it this time?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Which of ESPN's hacks is at it this time?
    The one who doesn't like facts to get in the way of a good meme. Oh wait, that probably doesn't narrow the field much, does it?
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    But, I'd like, for once, a reporter or journalist to discuss and examine the financial levers driving the decision rather than just say that Duke is scared to play true road games and also does so to protect a "now meaningless" non-con home winning streak.
    Can someone enlighten me on how playing neutral-site instead of road games is supposed to affect a winning streak at home?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsondevil View Post
    Can someone enlighten me on how playing neutral-site instead of road games is supposed to affect a winning streak at home?
    By not playing high-level home-and-home series, many fewer high-level non-conference teams play in Cameron. When is the last time, outside of the ACC/Big 10 Challenge, that a top team outside the ACC played in Cameron?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by crimsondevil View Post
    Can someone enlighten me on how playing neutral-site instead of road games is supposed to affect a winning streak at home?
    I'd guess the mantra would be that a non-con home winning streak doesn't mean that much if you only play the big, tough teams at neutral sites. Because if you never go to their place they will never come to yours. It's a convoluted argument but the best I can come up with.
    Coach K on Kyle Singler - "What position does he play? ... He plays winner."

    "Duke is never the underdog" - Quinn Cook

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    By not playing high-level home-and-home series, many fewer high-level non-conference teams play in Cameron. When is the last time, outside of the ACC/Big 10 Challenge, that a top team outside the ACC played in Cameron?
    Probably Georgetown with Greg Monroe or Davidson with Steph Curry. But why don't the Challenge games count, again?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Probably Georgetown with Greg Monroe or Davidson with Steph Curry. But why don't the Challenge games count, again?
    They do. I think the argument is that the streak would be more impressive if there was at least one more stern test per season. Honestly, I don't really care. I think the way K has financially endowed the program is genius and extremely under-reported and under-appreciated. If I were a Cameron season ticket holder, however, I might feel differently, but I'd likely be so happy that I had Cameron season tickets that I also wouldn't really care.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    By not playing high-level home-and-home series, many fewer high-level non-conference teams play in Cameron. When is the last time, outside of the ACC/Big 10 Challenge, that a top team outside the ACC played in Cameron?
    If the "top team" criteria means ranked teams, I believe the answer to that is January 2009 against Georgetown -- back when we had a home-and-home with the Hoyas. We won that game.

    But this aspect of the overall argument about "true road games" (i.e., that allegedly Duke avoids these to protect its nonconference home win streak) is not only silly (I mean, what is the substantive difference between a home loss to, say, Arizona, as opposed to Syracuse?) but unsupported factually.

    Off the top of my head I can think of only a tiny handful of home games we lost in the last 20 years to non-conference foes -- even when we had some tough home-and-homes (like Michigan, Georgetown and UCLA). St. John's '00, Michigan '96, and Illinois '95 is like the whole list.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Monmouth77 View Post
    If the "top team" criteria means ranked teams, I believe the answer to that is January 2009 against Georgetown -- back when we had a home-and-home with the Hoyas. We won that game.
    yep. it was a saturday early game...and the line was the longest walk up line i'd ever seen...students were tenting in full force...the line went all the way to the indoor tennis courts, around kville, down to towerview, then all the way down to the traffic circle

    i'm sure the length of the line was affected by the number of passed out tenters sleeping in the line on air mattresses pulled from their tent, but either way, it made for an AWESOME atmosphere....

    it was cold that night/morning too.
    Duke Football:

    Winning in the ACC AND the NFL.

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

Similar Threads

  1. Non-conference "true" road games
    By feldspar in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 12-02-2011, 09:21 PM
  2. ACC Road Games
    By DukeFencer in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-05-2009, 09:38 AM
  3. Seth Davis dings our lack of true road games
    By Billy Dat in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 02-27-2008, 07:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •