MBB (Exh): Duke 87, Central Missouri 47 Post Game Thread

[-jk]

Sometime after the football game ends (Go Duke!), discuss the basketball win here.

-jk

[devildeac]

Gotta be an all-time DBR record for least number of posts during an in-game thread with 8.

Football school.

[Gthoma2a]

I will multi-task. That was amazing by Blakeny, by the way!

The team looked really impressive. It wasn't always pretty, but it was good. We aren't the traditional Duke team, we're better. We don't need to shoot the 3 very much. We have plenty of slashers.

Justise may be our MVP by the end of this. He defends very well, gets back, does well on the break and he is tough about getting in the lane.

Jahlil has shown that he can pass a bit. The entire first team started slow, but he showed that he can affect the game in a lot of ways. He had a block that bounced off the board so hard that it started a beautiful break that went to Tyus and he assisted Justise for a beautiful slam. He is outstanding. He may need to guard the ball a little more from time to time, but he is still getting used to the college game (I think he toyed with people a lot in HS).

Grayson looked really good. It must be really difficult to not foul him, because it seems he gets to the line every time he gets into the lane.

Tyus looked like a good distributor. He is able to score, as well, but he just hit his first 3 for us today. Still, exactly the distributor that we need.

Quinn is a leader. He looks like he is relishing his senior year and just wants to win. He pressures on D, and he is much more aggressive on offense, this year. With as many players that can drive, the floor is spaced much better for this. He was shooting pretty well, and he played pressure D. He was intense the whole time, and he didn't seem to overplay as much. I like his attitude, and, while he may not start, he is a key to this team. I don't think you can question his will to win, and that will keep the more passive players focused.

Rasheed played much better. He got back and he just played within himself. I would still argue that he needs to come off of the bench, but that is just my opinion (if you give him too much of a leash, you risk him reverting to bad habits).

Matt's shot wasn't as on (a lot of guys had them going in and out), but he was himself. He was solid.

Semi impressed me today. He didn't look hesitant. He was out there and being aggressive. One bad 3, but he was pretty effective (driving and shooting 3s on O and got a block and a rebound on D). He is there, if we need him, and I feel much more comfortable with that.

Amile is really good, but I wish he were more accurate with his shot. He goes to the outside, but is basically forced to go off the bounce if he wants to attack, because he has no shot from the outside. He started out with a lid on the rim, even from short, but with his D and communication, he is a valuable piece.

Marshall was a huge spark off of the bench. He was flying in for putbacks. He was great on the boards today. He isn't going to do much, if he has to put the ball on the floor (every time he dribbled, his hands seemed to fail him, but he flushed the ball well). He altered shots and he really just played well.

The second unit came in, with us down, and reminded the starters how Duke is supposed to play. The D caused a lot of tough shots for Central Missouri. They made some of the shots, but little came easy for them. We won big, despite not shooting particularly well from long-range, but we don't need to fall in love with the 3 this year, anyway. I keep noticing that this year, we are trying to use angles on D more. The man on the guy will turn to the side to get into the passing lane, while a big gets a small distance in front to prevent penetration. I don't know what we did last year, but, against limited competition, this is working to make life difficult for the opposition (and it caused turnovers for layups). I think it was what we were hoping for last year.

We are a much improved team, and we can do so much more than last year, because so many more guys are allowed to touch the ball (even the players we had last year are looking much more effective, now). It will be a fun season, where we don't have to worry about, where will the points come if one or two players are struggling (it was all Parker and Hood for most of last year).

[OldPhiKap]

Way to go! 8-1 and on to VT!

Anything else going on today?

[Troublemaker]

Great 4th quarter by football!

Not sure what I'm more excited for because men's basketball continues to look soooo good this year. I multi-watched. Here are preliminary thoughts on the basketball exhibition.

Let me start by saying that I’m glad the first few minutes of the game happened the way they did. UCM got out to leads of 9-3, 11-6, and 13-7 on Duke. First off, it wasn’t like Duke was playing poorly during that period of time. UCM made some midrange and long 2s that we’re going to give up this season when we ice ball screens. And on the other end, Duke couldn’t get a shot to drop on offense. We had at least three rimmed out threes on good open shots, and Amile missed a couple of chippies inside. UCM was packing it in on defense and Jahlil got stripped on a double-team when he usually is more patient and finds the open man. But other than that, I wouldn’t say Duke was playing poorly.

Now UCM showed me during that period of time that they are a well-drilled, smart, together team who can make shots. You could watch them play and understand how they were Div II champions last season like Drury was the year before. This was a good thing to establish at the beginning of the game because, as Newton14 might point out, while Drury was able to use the same qualities to lead at halftime in last season’s exhibition, this year’s Duke team dominated after trailing 13-7 early. We spent the rest of the game wearing down and taking apart a well-coached team using our size and speed, our depth and athleticism, our play in the passing lanes, our quick hands for strips, our shotblocking(!), our court vision and ball movement, our amazing transition offense, our offensive-rebounding and ability to draw fouls on drives, our variety on offense, our cutting off the ball, and overall just our excellent basketball IQ. It was a clinic. We didn’t hit our threes, but I was more impressed by this performance than the one against Livingstone because we defended like mad men both halves.

[Troublemaker]

I keep noticing that this year, we are trying to use angles on D more. The man on the guy will turn to the side to get into the passing lane, while a big gets a small distance in front to prevent penetration. I don't know what we did last year, but, against limited competition, this is working to make life difficult for the opposition (and it caused turnovers for layups).

That's called icing the ball screen, brother! Coach K has borrowed some from Thibs.

Interestingly, though, after UCM took an early lead, we actually switched up the ball screen defense a bit from icing. Our bigs started hugging up on the screener and we saw some hedging, some switching, and even some blitzing of the ball-handler with Plumlee, and more scrambling overall. This really disrupted UCM's rhythm that they had established at the beginning of the game when we only played ice. Then, we went back to icing ball screens and UCM couldn't hit their long 2s anymore and we were just locked in and torturing them with ball pressure and denial. It's good to be able to throw a changeup in there and have it be effective at disrupting the opponent's rhythm.

The second half was an icing clinic. UCM attacked us all game with ball screens and we played them well. Last year's team couldn't.

[duke09hms]

That's called icing the ball screen, brother! Coach K has borrowed some from Thibs.

Interestingly, though, after UCM took an early lead, we actually switched up the ball screen defense a bit from icing. Our bigs started hugging up on the screener and we saw some hedging, some switching, and even some blitzing of the ball-handler with Plumlee, and more scrambling overall. This really disrupted UCM's rhythm that they had established at the beginning of the game when we only played ice. Then, we went back to icing ball screens and UCM couldn't hit their long 2s anymore and we were just locked in and torturing them with ball pressure and denial. It's good to be able to throw a changeup in there and have it be effective at disrupting the opponent's rhythm.

I'm so glad to hear we decided to ice the pick and rolls this year because ice by design takes away middle penetration, which is what we've been burned by over and over these last few years by ultra quick/athletic guards. What it does give up are long 2s and 3s by the screener, which is only a problem against Nowitzki-like bigs who can shoot 3s, and there's not too many of those in college. I'd much rather lose to a team making long 2s than a team getting easy layups and dumpoffs over and over and over.

[Newton_14]

Great 4th quarter by football!

Not sure what I'm more excited for because men's basketball continues to look soooo good this year. I multi-watched. Here are preliminary thoughts on the basketball exhibition.

Let me start by saying that I’m glad the first few minutes of the game happened the way they did. UCM got out to leads of 9-3, 11-6, and 13-7 on Duke. First off, it wasn’t like Duke was playing poorly during that period of time. UCM made some midrange and long 2s that we’re going to give up this season when we ice ball screens. And on the other end, Duke couldn’t get a shot to drop on offense. We had at least three rimmed out threes on good open shots, and Amile missed a couple of chippies inside. UCM was packing it in on defense and Jahlil got stripped on a double-team when he usually is more patient and finds the open man. But other than that, I wouldn’t say Duke was playing poorly.

Now UCM showed me during that period of time that they are a well-drilled, smart, together team who can make shots. You could watch them play and understand how they were Div II champions last season like Drury was the year before. This was a good thing to establish at the beginning of the game because, as Newton14 might point out, while Drury was able to use the same qualities to lead at halftime in last season’s exhibition, this year’s Duke team dominated after trailing 13-7 early. We spent the rest of the game wearing down and taking apart a well-coached team using our size and speed, our depth and athleticism, our play in the passing lanes, our quick hands for strips, our shotblocking(!), our court vision and ball movement, our amazing transition offense, our offensive-rebounding and ability to draw fouls on drives, our variety on offense, our cutting off the ball, and overall just our excellent basketball IQ. It was a clinic. We didn’t hit our threes, but I was more impressed by this performance than the one against Livingstone because we defended like mad men both halves.

Well you just pretty much covered verbatim, every major point I made while texting Kedsy during the game, so not much for me to add here! That's funny. Especially with describing the start of the game and our defense.

I was actually able to watch the FB and BB game at the same time. A very nice lady in front of me was streaming the game live on her IPhone and I had the perfect angle. It was still 10-3 when I got in the car to come home so I still heard the Crowder return TD on the call from Bob Harris. Good times folks. Don't take them for granted.


This team is just so much better than last years team on defense and probably will be on offense too. Jahlil showed a lot of Mason like passing today which was beautiful.

So Phase 0 showed one game where threes were falling and one game were shots from everywhere were rimming out, and both were 30+ point blowouts. Defense looking really good.

Test 1- A+

On to Phase I and test two. I don't see the starting lineup changing any time soon either. Matt looks very comfortable in that slot and is a good fit with the other 4 guys. Quinn looks great in his new role, and Grayson continues to look really good, and Rasheed was better today, airball on a wide open 3 notwithstanding. We did see the small line up briefly today and surprisingly it happened with both Quinn and Tyus in the backcourt. They were joined by Grayson, Winslow, and Amile. K has so many options to roll with this season. Can go small, medium, large or even extra large if he wants.

Good day to be a Blue Devil. Congrats to the FB and BB teams. Well done.

[dukelifer]

I got to see the team in person for the first time. First impressions. Winslow is really,really good- maybe the best player on the team. Parts of his game are still raw, but has the potential to be a big star. He is at a different level athletically and moves with ease on the floor. He plays with a calm that you rarely see in a Freshman. He slashes to the rim with power, yet has a very nice touch. Okafor is a much better defender than I expected. He times his jumps well and is a decent rim protector. He also passes very well. Clearly a talent. T Jones is an excellent passer. He had 3 or 4 passes that Quinn could not make. He too has very good defensive anticipation. The D is going to be much better this year with these three on the floor. The combination of M Jones and Winslow is going to give some teams fits on both ends of the floor. If M Jones can start to hit his outside shot, Duke can be very good. The shooting on this team is a bit of a concern. There is no great shooter on this squad. Allen is good with his feet set and other guys can hit - but this team will need to score inside out. K played two teams with Cook playing on both. We may see this throughout the year to keep guys fresh and engaged. It will be interesting to see who Duke goes to in crunch time. Winslow is real possibility. Should be a fun team to watch develop.

[uh_no]

Things i learned from the game:

nothing. the opponent was overmatched.

most people looked good, some shots didn't fall early, what you gonna do.

[uh_no]

also: in the things people might not have noticed:

rasheed didn't shoot well, but had a cool 4 assists and 0 TOs.

i think K's gotta be happier with that than last week. the shots will come, but it's tough to commit to driving when we were so easily able to over match them down low.

i'm going to assume we're going into the regular season with the 5 J lineup to start...but it was clear to me, at least, that K was spending a lo of time playing different guard combos...it may not be until january that we have a great idea

[Newton_14]

Things i learned from the game:

nothing. the opponent was overmatched.

most people looked good, some shots didn't fall early, what you gonna do.

I know you are cynical by nature, but there was plenty to learn today. Yes the opponent was overmatched, but like most cupcake opponents K schedules, they were very well coached, disciplined, and played hard. Not to beat a dead horse to death but they were very similar to the Drury team last season that led at the half.

Our defense throughout the game was very strong. Soooooo much difference than last season. Even in the two exhibitions last season, we pressed and pressed and pressed full court against those opponents and got nothing from it but a bunch of tired Blue Devils. By the 3rd or 4th game it was obvious they were terrible at it and all the running was killing Jabari so K had to abandon it and go back to halfcourt only.

We have seen them 4 times now (Jim and Oly probably more than that) with CTC, Open Practice, and the two exhibitions, and it is already obvious how much better this group is on defense. (Compared to last seasons team at the same stage. This year's team still has to prove they can sustain that against the better teams for sure. All evidence obtained so far is pointing toward a "yes they can" verdict vs a "no they can't".)

It's a long way to go and we have to see how they do as the competition stiffens, which it will do in a hurry. One of the reasons Matt Jones has such a stronghold on the starting spot at 2 guard is how good he is at defense and pressing. He is also the perfect backcourt mate for Tyus. If Matt can just be consistent hitting that 3 ball, all will be well.I
was a huge Rodney Hood fan last year, but Winslow is so big, strong, and graceful, and is showing to be really strong on defense. Amile is a beast out there defensively, quarterbacking the defense, point man on the press at times, rebounding like a mad man. Perfect complement player to Jahlil.

The bench is deep and strong. There really isn't a single player on the bench that you would be scared to have on the court in a tight game during a critical situation. Semi is probably the weakest player as of right now (though I hate using that word for him or any of the others) but even he is much improved and is not going to be overwhelmed out there.

With Jahlil on the offensive end, it just opens up so many things offensively, not the least of which is his own ability to score, but he showed today he is a willing passer and a good passer who isn't going to take a stupid shot trying to go 1 on 3 or 1 on 4. I was super impressed with him today when they double and tripled teamed him. He is going to live at the foul line, as is Winslow.

Quinn looks really good in his new role, and I love Grayson Allen. At some point too, I have to believe Rasheed will get back to playing close to or at his talent level. We honestly have the deepest SG team I have ever seen at Duke. You take the other 4 starters in Tyus, Winslow, Amile, Jahlil, and we can then plug in any one of Matt, Quinn, Rasheed, Grayson, and you still feel like we have a very strong 5 man team on the court. That's incredible really. Each of those 4 brings something different to the table too. This is why I believe Semi's minutes are going to get squeezed unfortunately. Once we get into the meat of the schedule, when Amile rests, K is going to slide Winslow to the 4 spot, so he can get 3 of the 6 guard/wing kids on the floor because all are so talented.

That's why I am not worried one bit about shooting. They really did not shoot well today but on most nights, if you have Tyus at point, Winslow at PF, Jahlil at Center, then two of Matt/Quinn/Rasheed/Grayson out there with them, you have 4 very capable 3 point shooters surrounding Jahlil. Double teaming Jahlil in that scenario is going to leave one of those four shooters wide open, and if Jahlil is facing single coverage, then just forget it. He is scoring or going to the line or both. He is going to kill any team that tries to stop him with one defender.

I think the outlook for the season is much more promising that it was last year at this time. They will face adversity and have bad nights for sure, but they are much better equipped to deal with that this year than last.

Looking at the 10 guys, I don't think anybody would single one of those kids out right now and say "Wow, he is a really bad/subpar defender".

[mo.st.dukie]

also: in the things people might not have noticed:

rasheed didn't shoot well, but had a cool 4 assists and 0 TOs.

i think K's gotta be happier with that than last week. the shots will come, but it's tough to commit to driving when we were so easily able to over match them down low.

i'm going to assume we're going into the regular season with the 5 J lineup to start...but it was clear to me, at least, that K was spending a lo of time playing different guard combos...it may not be until january that we have a great idea

Coach K said in his post game press conference that we'll have a lot of different lineups out on the court but not necessarily different starting lineups.

I think the current starting lineup will be it for a while, the only real change that might happen would be Quinn or Rasheed in for Matt but K has talked a lot about how Matt fits better with the other starters. With Matt starting it can set the defensive tone early plus give us a ton of scoring experience off the bench which will be handy in situations where we don't have Jahlil on the floor.

[mo.st.dukie]

Things i learned from the game:

nothing. the opponent was overmatched.

most people looked good, some shots didn't fall early, what you gonna do.

Let's not forget what last year's team did against another D-II team from Missouri. At least we learned that we aren't that bad.

[Edouble]

I don't care about football.

Wow, what a game. I already like this year's team much, much more than last year's. We're a real Duke team. We play defense!

I'm ready to go all in and say if we stay healthy, we're winning the National Championship. This is hands down the most talented team since the silver era of '98-'02. The three freshman starters so obviously mirror the three freshman stars from '12 Kentucky, although I think Tyus is better than Marcus Teague.

Any team that can give-or-take Rasheed Suilamon, who is probably the most talented guard in the ACC, is dangerous indeed. I do think that Rasheed will have a big part to play before this thing is over though.

Justise is pretty much Rodney Hood's doppelganger. The guy is more likely to have 10 rebounds than to have zero. The kind of guy, who when his shot is not falling, will find other ways to impact the game. I had no idea he'd be this good.

I sense that we will see Amile's best year this year, playing alongside an NBA calibre center.

Grayson is making a strong case for himself to stay in the rotation. It's a million years until January though.

[dukelifer]

I don't care about football.

Wow, what a game. I already like this year's team much, much more than last year's. We're a real Duke team. We play defense!

I'm ready to go all in and say if we stay healthy, we're winning the National Championship. This is hands down the most talented team since the silver era of '98-'02. The three freshman starters so obviously mirror the three freshman stars from '12 Kentucky, although I think Tyus is better than Marcus Teague.

Any team that can give-or-take Rasheed Suilamon, who is probably the most talented guard in the ACC, is dangerous indeed. I do think that Rasheed will have a big part to play before this thing is over though.

Justise is pretty much Rodney Hood's doppelganger. The guy is more likely to have 10 rebounds than to have zero. The kind of guy, who when his shot is not falling, will find other ways to impact the game. I had no idea he'd be this good.

I sense that we will see Amile's best year this year, playing alongside an NBA calibre center.

Grayson is making a strong case for himself to stay in the rotation. It's a million years until January though.

This team has talent- but a lot of work to do. I have no doubt that they would win the Division II national championship but we have no idea how this team will play in a tight game against the big boys. We will learn a lot very soon.

[mgtr]

OK, we have ten good players. Coach K always whittles this down to 7 or 8 in the rotation by January. So, who is out of the rotation? First out, probably Semi. Next out, none. I just don't see how you can keep Grayson on the bench. So, nine in the rotation, and by January Semi may earn his way into the rotation. Wonderful problems to have!!!

[DukieInBrasil]

OK, we have ten good players. Coach K always whittles this down to 7 or 8 in the rotation by January. So, who is out of the rotation? First out, probably Semi. Next out, none. I just don't see how you can keep Grayson on the bench. So, nine in the rotation, and by January Semi may earn his way into the rotation. Wonderful problems to have!!!

I agree that it's hard to see how anyone gets whittled out of the rotation, but that's just the starbursts in my eyes speaking. Seems much more likely that all 10 play pretty regularly up thru January, when K would start shrinking the "rotation". I agree that Semi seems likely to be the first to drop out, since it doesn't seem like he has the "must play" stature of say, Justise. I haven't seen the team at all, including 0 exhibition games, but my gut tells me that Grayson is next likely to see his use drop, if in fact K really does go with 8 man "rotation".

Somebody else said it in another thread, but i too am getting tired of the Suaimon "will he or won't he" show. He's a Jr. and he needs to show up every game. He might get the bench in Grayson's place if he keeps doing that.

[Troublemaker]

OK, we have ten good players. Coach K always whittles this down to 7 or 8 in the rotation by January. So, who is out of the rotation? First out, probably Semi. Next out, none. I just don't see how you can keep Grayson on the bench. So, nine in the rotation, and by January Semi may earn his way into the rotation. Wonderful problems to have!!!

First question that has to be answered is: Will Duke fullcourt press for 40 minutes all season?

If we do, we'll have an 8.5+ man rotation all season.

Backing off the press (either for the season or in an individual game where the opponent is hurting the press) opens the door for the traditional 7.5-8 man rotation.

[Henderson]

First question that has to be answered is: Will Duke fullcourt press for 40 minutes all season?

If we do, we'll have an 8.5+ man rotation all season.

Backing off the press (either for the season or in an individual game where the opponent is hurting the press) opens the door for the traditional 7.5-8 man rotation.

Duke won't press full court for 40 minutes all season, but K has said he wants to use this team's depth of talent to get deeper into other teams' rotations (i.e. wear other teams' best players down). So I think we'll see more players getting more minutes deeper into the season than we have in recent years. It's too early to say what that means, but I wouldn't count on 2-3 of the 10 scholarship players becoming mere bench fodder come January.