2017 Basketball Recruiting Thread

[UrinalCake]

I remember last year's game at home versus State. Derryck played an amazing first half defensively against Cat Barber (who wasn't as good a player as Smith, but was every bit as quick). Derryck was actually able to stay in front of him without requiring help or a switch, something nobody else on the team could do. Honestly, the last PG we've had who doesn't require help on nearly every position was Nolan.

Anyways, Derryck made two bad mistakes to start the second half, turning the ball over twice in the open court, and K pulled him for the rest of the game. I didn't make any sense to me. State went on to make a run but we held them off to win the game.

[devilnfla]

I remember last year's game at home versus State. Derryck played an amazing first half defensively against Cat Barber (who wasn't as good a player as Smith, but was every bit as quick). Derryck was actually able to stay in front of him without requiring help or a switch, something nobody else on the team could do. Honestly, the last PG we've had who doesn't require help on nearly every position was Nolan.

Anyways, Derryck made two bad mistakes to start the second half, turning the ball over twice in the open court, and K pulled him for the rest of the game. I didn't make any sense to me. State went on to make a run but we held them off to win the game.

I remember him making a great defensive stop against Berry to save the game for us against unc.

[SupaDave]

I think you're trying too hard to rationalize your opinion that we somehow benefit from Derryck's departure. He was certainly no Tyus Jones, but does anyone realize how special Tyus Jones was? Freshmen point guards who can successfully run a team are extremely rare. Also keep in mind, Derryck was supposed to be a high school senior last season. He enrolled at Duke a year early to accommodate our need for back court depth.

Derryck was well on his way to being one of the best point guards in the country, IMO. I totally disagree that he had average handles or average quickness. In fact, he may have been the best ball handler to come into the program since Kyrie Irving. Just watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUeGlAwPEzg

However, during his lone year at Duke, he did not have the role of a primary ball handler, and this is probably why things went bad with his inner circle. I, for one, believe he would have been a magnificent point guard for Duke if he had stayed. At just 18 years old, he was already one of the best on the ball defenders on the team, and he would have only gotten better. I think we will be hearing his name quite a bit in the years to come, starring at USC with Andy Enfield's "Dunk City" offense.

Current Thornton footage. Nothing special here. Count me in the group that doesn't feel like he's a huge loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkDK7yKqOlQ

[kAzE]

Current Thornton footage. Nothing special here. Count me in the group that doesn't feel like he's a huge loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkDK7yKqOlQ

I'm not sure what there is to glean from that video . . . it's a pretty relaxed scrimmage and he doesn't even touch the ball until the last 2 seconds of the video . . .

Again, judging a guy based on his play from a year that should have been his final season in high school is way too premature. Based on freshman year performance, a lot of Duke point guards would have been viewed as "average."

[luvdahops]

I remember last year's game at home versus State. Derryck played an amazing first half defensively against Cat Barber (who wasn't as good a player as Smith, but was every bit as quick). Derryck was actually able to stay in front of him without requiring help or a switch, something nobody else on the team could do. Honestly, the last PG we've had who doesn't require help on nearly every position was Nolan.

Anyways, Derryck made two bad mistakes to start the second half, turning the ball over twice in the open court, and K pulled him for the rest of the game. I didn't make any sense to me. State went on to make a run but we held them off to win the game.

There is no doubt in my mind that Derryck has the potential to be an elite, on-the-ball defender. And he would have helped this year's team in that regard for sure. But I am not sure I saw much evidence last season of the vision, passing ability and instincts required to be anything more than serviceable on the offensive end. Or better than the options we do have.

[killerleft]

There is no doubt in my mind that Derryck has the potential to be an elite, on-the-ball defender. And he would have helped this year's team in that regard for sure. But I am not sure I saw much evidence last season of the vision, passing ability and instincts required to be anything more than serviceable on the offensive end. Or better than the options we do have.

I feel bad for debating the merits of a former player's usefulness had he stayed at Duke, but which of our current pointy-type guards do you think has better skills for the job at this point?

Derryck was a young player learning to play a position against ACC competition. That's what he's being dinged for.

I hope we find a point guard soon.

[Edouble]

Tomorrow, Wendell's school (Pace Academy) will have a McDonald's All-American presentation for him.

Cool. I'm gonna go see him play on his senior night next Tuesday, 01/31.

[Olympic Fan]

I don't understand the debate about Derryck Thornton.

Yes, he was at best an average point guard last season -- but that was as an 18-year-old freshman who left high school early to attend Duke. He didn't get to come over the summer, missing a long team-bonding opportunity.

As a freshman, he was deficient as a playmaker, but he showed flashes of offensive punch and he was the team's best on-the-ball defender.

I'm sure he'd be better this season -- although the weakest part of his game was what this team needs most -- a heady playmaker.

Still, what's the debate? It's not like K ran Derryck off. He played significantly as a freshman (26 minutes a game). He (and/or the people around him) were unhappy with the way he was used. He elected to leave -- a decision that left Duke in the lurch.

Yeah, it would have been great to have Thornton on this team, but if he's going to be selfish about what his role should be, then screw him and his entourage. We were better off without Elliot Williams (who basically left for the same reason) and we're better off without Thornton.

[Devils Librarian]

I think you're trying too hard to rationalize your opinion that we somehow benefit from Derryck's departure. He was certainly no Tyus Jones, but does anyone realize how special Tyus Jones was? Freshmen point guards who can successfully run a team are extremely rare. Also keep in mind, Derryck was supposed to be a high school senior last season. He enrolled at Duke a year early to accommodate our need for back court depth.

Derryck was well on his way to being one of the best point guards in the country, IMO. I totally disagree that he had average handles or average quickness. In fact, he may have been the best ball handler to come into the program since Kyrie Irving. Just watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUeGlAwPEzg

However, during his lone year at Duke, he did not have the role of a primary ball handler, and this is probably why things went bad with his inner circle. I, for one, believe he would have been a magnificent point guard for Duke if he had stayed. At just 18 years old, he was already one of the best on the ball defenders on the team, and he would have only gotten better. I think we will be hearing his name quite a bit in the years to come, starring at USC with Andy Enfield's "Dunk City" offense.

THAT VIDEO LINK!!! YOU"RE KILLING ME! I agree that Derryck would have been a great fit with this year's team for two reasons:

1. He had the speed and defensive skills to help neutralize athletic point guards (think DSJ). He also would have been a big help on perimeter defense where Luke and Grayson can be a little lazy.

2. He would have been able to slow down the offense and move the ball around. He would have allowed a combo of Grayson, Luke, Jason to roam the perimeter while he took his man off the dribble and either laid it in, dished to Amile/Harry/Bolden, or passed to the open man on the perimeter.

Of all of the transfers that have left Duke, he is the one that baffles me. Most leave because they don't get enough playing time, but that was not the problem for Derryck. Oh well, there is nothing gained by wishing he was still a Blue Devil. Here's to hoping we land Duval so that we are not having the same conversation next season.

[jv001]

I'll only add that I think Derryck Thornton would have turned out to be in the Hurley, Amaker class of on the ball defenders. I have no idea how he would be at distributing the ball. Best to let it rest, he's not coming through that door anytime soon or ever. GoDuke!

[BandAlum83]

Current Thornton footage. Nothing special here. Count me in the group that doesn't feel like he's a huge loss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkDK7yKqOlQ

I can only imagine that if a Duke scrimmage went like this, Coach K would be screaming at the entire team!!

WTF was this?

[kAzE]

Still, what's the debate? It's not like K ran Derryck off. He played significantly as a freshman (26 minutes a game). He (and/or the people around him) were unhappy with the way he was used. He elected to leave -- a decision that left Duke in the lurch.

Yeah, it would have been great to have Thornton on this team, but if he's going to be selfish about what his role should be, then screw him and his entourage. We were better off without Elliot Williams (who basically left for the same reason) and we're better off without Thornton.

Let's be careful, since we don't really know the full story of what happened internally. It didn't work out for one reason or another, and we should leave it at that. I personally wish Derryck the best of luck and hope to see him reach his goals with USC and beyond. He was an important player for us last year, and he sacrificed a lot in order to be with us.

However, you're 100% right that we should NOT be complaining that he's not on this year's team. I was just disagreeing with a previous post which, in my opinion, didn't give him his proper due as a really good ball handler with elite quickness.

[JNort]

I just jumped in on this page and saw the DT "debate" and it blows my mind that some on here don't think he was that quick or had the great of "handles". Dude is definitely one of the fastest best handling guards in college and an elite on ball defender as a freshman! His shot was average which isn't unexpected since many freshman struggle shooting their first year as they adjust to the speed of the game. His passing was pretty good considering he wasn't being asked to actually play his position of pg which also hurt.

[mr. synellinden]

I just jumped in on this page and saw the DT "debate" and it blows my mind that some on here don't think he was that quick or had the great of "handles". Dude is definitely one of the fastest best handling guards in college and an elite on ball defender as a freshman! His shot was average which isn't unexpected since many freshman struggle shooting their first year as they adjust to the speed of the game. His passing was pretty good considering he wasn't being asked to actually play his position of pg which also hurt.

Completely agree. Not every freshman is Kyrie, Jabari or Jahlil offensively. Thornton was very good for a freshman. And if he had stayed he would be starting this year and making a huge difference on both sides of the ball. Health issues aside - I think he's the missing link for this year's team. The last possession Monday night is a perfect example of why. Do we know who is supposed to have the ball on a possession like that?

[sagegrouse]

Who will be the point guard next year ? Does anyone have a clue ?. We won the tournament with excellent point guards in the past and we haven't had one since Jones left. We do not have one this year and from what I read we have not recruited one for next year.

The lack of one has to fall on the shoulders of Coach K and his recruiting staff.

Dave -- Let's try and understand the recruiting difficulty under one-and-done and early-entry regimes. The lag between a decision to leave the Duke program early and the start of the second session of summer classes, when new basketball recruits arrive on campus, is about THREE MONTHS. The lag between initial recruitment of a top recruit and his enrollment at Duke is, at a minimum, 18 MONTHS TO TWO YEARS. This means we have no way to fill a sudden vacancy at point guard in the time available. You may call that a shortcoming of "Coach K and his recruiting staff;" I call it the "iron law of early entry" -- there is no way out.

Now, there are shortcuts, and we have used them: get players to reclassify to an earlier class, as did Andre Dawkins and Derryck Thornton. But these raise their own sets of problems -- maturity, academic readiness, etc. Also, the Duke coaches could swoop down on as-yet-uncommitted players, but these are usually outside the top 100 (top 200). Or, Duke could over-recruit point guards in the expectation that a sudden need could arise; the problem here is that the quality of the recruit who is a choice for a backup is not nearly as good.

[Steven43]

I was just disagreeing with a previous post which, in my opinion, didn't give him his proper due as a really good ball handler with elite quickness.

Okay, I could not let this comment go. Did you actually watch the round of 16 tournament game against Oregon? How soon we forget, apparently. In that game Thornton's ballhandling was so bad he could not even control his dribble WHILE UNGUARDED! It was the loosest ballhandling I've ever seen by a starting Duke PG in a big game. And that was after having played an entire season.

[JNort]

Okay, I could not let this comment go. Did you actually watch the round of 16 tournament game against Oregon? How soon we forget, apparently. In that game Thornton's ballhandling was so bad he could not even control his dribble WHILE UNGUARDED! It was the loosest ballhandling I've ever seen by a starting Duke PG in a big game. And that was after having played an entire season.

I will have to go back and watch that again because I don't remember it like you. However by your reasoning a player (in particular a freshman against a top tier opponent on a big stage) can't have a bad game, and if he does then it makes him terrible.

By your same one game reasoning JJ Reddick was a below average 3 point shooter and average to below average scorer since he played poorly against LSU in the sweet 16.

Now I know that's not what your trying to do but you can see how that argument doesn't hold up. DT had a very very good freshman year and I think if he would have been here at Duke 4 years we would be discussing whether or not his jersey should be retired.

[kAzE]

Okay, I could not let this comment go. Did you actually watch the round of 16 tournament game against Oregon? How soon we forget, apparently. In that game Thornton's ballhandling was so bad he could not even control his dribble WHILE UNGUARDED! It was the loosest ballhandling I've ever seen by a starting Duke PG in a big game. And that was after having played an entire season.

Yep . . . because 1 bad performance always defines a career. Great analysis.

You should check out Bobby Hurley's freshman year. I believe he still is the all time leader at Duke for turnovers in a season.

[ricks68]

Yep . . . because 1 bad performance always defines a career. Great analysis.

You should check out Bobby Hurley's freshman year. I believe he still is the all time leader at Duke for turnovers in a season.

I was surprised it took so long for someone to post about Hurley ' s freshman stats. IMHO, that should close out the Thornton discussion. (But, of course, we all know it won't. Common sense, factual contributions, don't seem to have much effect around here a considerable amount of the time.&#128552

ricks

[English]

I will have to go back and watch that again because I don't remember it like you. However by your reasoning a player (in particular a freshman against a top tier opponent on a big stage) can't have a bad game, and if he does then it makes him terrible.

By your same one game reasoning JJ Reddick was a below average 3 point shooter and average to below average scorer since he played poorly against LSU in the sweet 16.

Now I know that's not what your trying to do but you can see how that argument doesn't hold up. DT had a very very good freshman year and I think if he would have been here at Duke 4 years we would be discussing whether or not his jersey should be retired.

Let's pump the brakes here--we don't need to wander into hyperbole. DT was on a very reasonable college career arc for a high major D1 program like Duke, which is especially impressive for a kid younger than the norm. He brought some nice tools to the table, he certainly had impressive quickness and handles. He showed signs as a plus on-ball defender at guard. However, he was inconsistent, as freshman ballhandlers tend to be, and he had trouble finding a balance between creating offense for himself and running the team's offense. All reasonable, and all reasonably expected to improve.

DT did NOT, under any reasonable expectation, have a "very very good freshman year," nor (IMO) should anyone be positing that DT was on track to have his jersey retired, even after three more imaginary years. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. DT doesn't either have to be complete addition by substraction and he doesn't have to be a major loss to the program and CIS' rafters. He was a solid potential future lead guard who would likely fit nicely on this squad on the defensive end, and could've improved his playmaking offense enough over the offseason to fit nicely where no natural 1 seems to exist on this year's squad.

...also, recruiting. It's still happening. We just don't know how it's going.