Star Wars research

[Olympic Fan]

First Disney absorption of the SW franchise:

http://disneychannel.disney.com/phin...ferb/star-wars

Although I must admit -- Perry the Rebel-pus translates to any genre.

I watched this the other night and was pleasantly surprised -- the Phineas and Ferb gang are on their own little adventure as the story of the original Star Wars is going on the background. I thought it was very clever (but I admit P&F is one of my guilty pleasures)

[OldPhiKap]

I watched this the other night and was pleasantly surprised -- the Phineas and Ferb gang are on their own little adventure as the story of the original Star Wars is going on the background. I thought it was very clever (but I admit P&F is one of my guilty pleasures)

Agreed-- kind of a cartoon Rosencrantz and Gildenstern Are Dead.

P&F is a very clever show, I have been a fan since the beginning"

[JasonEvans]

but to me, it's always underscored the fact that Lucas was really making a lot of this stuff up as he went along.

A-freaking-men! There is no way Lucas had stuff planned in advance. I think he had some of the stuff in Jedi planned when he was making Empire but there is no way he really knew what he was doing with the prequels back when he was making the original trilogy and he certainly didn't have much of this stuff planned when he made the first (A New Hope) Star Wars film.

-Jason "I am really looking forward to JJ and Rian Johnson's take on Star Wars -- they are both far, far better storytellers than Lucas" Evans

[Duvall]

-Jason "I am really looking forward to JJ and Rian Johnson's take on Star Wars -- they are both far, far better storytellers than Lucas" Evans

Abrams is more marketer than storyteller now. I wouldn't expect much.

[CameronBornAndBred]

-Jason "I am really looking forward to JJ and Rian Johnson's take on Star Wars -- they are both far, far better storytellers than Lucas" Evans

I loathe when anyone calls out Lucas as a bad storyteller. He has plenty of works that I will roll my eyes at, but I also have plenty of paintings that I'm happy to keep in the closet, and I'm not shabby with brushes.
American Graffiti, classic -- He wrote it
A New Hope (as Moonpie pointed out, SWASHBUCKLING!!!) -- He wrote it
ESB -- His story (If someone else writes your story, you are still the storyteller.)
Raiders of the Lost Ark -- His story
RotJ -- His story and screenplay
etc, etc...Raiders and the sequels were his stories, Star Wars were his. Two tales that captured the imaginations of multiple generations. There aren't too many others that have done that. Gene Roddenberry is one, but he had only on tale. My favorite storyteller (on screen), Rod Serling, still keeps minds active, but he struck out with later endeavors after Twilight Zone.
I think JJ does a good job of RELAYING a story, but I don't know about telling one. Lost got lost quickly, as an example. He kicked azz with Star Trek(s), but he didn't write them.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think JJ does a good job of RELAYING a story, but I don't know about telling one. Lost got lost quickly, as an example. He kicked azz with Star Trek(s), but he didn't write them.

I'm backing off this statement in hindsight. After thinking about it a bit, JJ does exactly what a storyTELLER does, he relays the tale. He does a great job of it; I'm looking forward to seeing how he handles VII.
I don't back off my statements about Lucas, though. He also has the ability to relay a story well. American Graffiti and SW: ANH are classics. He directed those. He also has to take the blame for directing Jar Jar Binks, and telling his crappy story. But at least he was smart enough to tell much less of his story as time wore on. I think in Phantom Menace he was so dying to use all of the tools at his disposal that he obviously went overboard. Hell, if I had all those toys, I would too. Unfortunately, once he let loose, he could not reign it in...I think he tried. The problem was he set the benchmark so high with Menace, that even though it didn't work, it's hard to dial it back and keep continuity. He created his own sarlacc pit; he'll be stuck in there forever. The smart move would have been to step aside and hand off direction. But maybe, because Menace sucked soooo badly, he felt he couldn't, and needed to prove himself again. He hit a grand slam with A New Hope, and handed off the reigns for ESB. Maybe he thought he couldn't do that when his follow up direction sucked chunks, and went for a second and third chance.

[Wander]

A-freaking-men! There is no way Lucas had stuff planned in advance.

Well, this is fairly clear simply based on the number of times over the decades he's jumped around stating that there are 6 intended movies for the saga, 9 intended movies, and 12 intended movies.

[OldPhiKap]

A-freaking-men! There is no way Lucas had stuff planned in advance. I think he had some of the stuff in Jedi planned when he was making Empire but there is no way he really knew what he was doing with the prequels back when he was making the original trilogy and he certainly didn't have much of this stuff planned when he made the first (A New Hope) Star Wars film.

-Jason "I am really looking forward to JJ and Rian Johnson's take on Star Wars -- they are both far, far better storytellers than Lucas" Evans

Well, this is fairly clear simply based on the number of times over the decades he's jumped around stating that there are 6 intended movies for the saga, 9 intended movies, and 12 intended movies.

Lucas couldn't even figure out if Han shot first. How do folks think he had a grand arc in plan, other than George's bloviating?

[hurleyfor3]

Lucas was really making a lot of this stuff up as he went along.

*ahem* Luke kissing Leia

[JasonEvans]

I loathe when anyone calls out Lucas as a bad storyteller. He has plenty of works that I will roll my eyes at, but I also have plenty of paintings that I'm happy to keep in the closet, and I'm not shabby with brushes.
American Graffiti, classic -- He wrote it
A New Hope (as Moonpie pointed out, SWASHBUCKLING!!!) -- He wrote it
ESB -- His story (If someone else writes your story, you are still the storyteller.)
Raiders of the Lost Ark -- His story
RotJ -- His story and screenplay
etc, etc...Raiders and the sequels were his stories, Star Wars were his. Two tales that captured the imaginations of multiple generations.

I feel terrible and you are right, Lucas WAS a great storyteller. But, it has been about 30 years since he did anything worth a damn. I am not sure I will ever forgive him for the second SW trilogy or for Indy 4. Those were his ideas... and they were just terrible.

-Jason "and how anyone could criticize JJ as a storyteller is beyond me. He breathed new life into Star Trek and I loved MI:3 (the courage of that opening scene is truly impressive)" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

I feel terrible and you are right, Lucas WAS a great storyteller. But, it has been about 30 years since he did anything worth a damn. I am not sure I will ever forgive him for the second SW trilogy or for Indy 4. Those were his ideas... and they were just terrible.

Go on, take the money and run. Hooo, hooo hooo!

GL is just cashing in at this point.

-Jason "and how anyone could criticize JJ as a storyteller is beyond me. He breathed new life into Star Trek and I loved MI:3 (the courage of that opening scene is truly impressive)" Evans

Absolutely agree re: Trek. As a fan of the original series when it was on, the reboot is the only good Trek since the original went off the air. (Although forced Nemoy cameo plot lines kinda suck).

[Duvall]

-Jason "and how anyone could criticize JJ as a storyteller is beyond me. He breathed new life into Star Trek and I loved MI:3 (the courage of that opening scene is truly impressive)" Evans

Rewriting Trek with literally ancient Hero's Journey tropes isn't exactly breathing "new" life. And Star Trek Into Darkness undid a lot of goodwill from Abrams' TV days.

[JasonEvans]

Star Trek Into Darkness undid a lot of goodwill from Abrams' TV days.

Yeah, I mean it only got an 87% on Rotten Tomatoes. It sucked.

-Jason "what are you talking about?!?!" Evans

[Duvall]

Yeah, I mean it only got an 87% on Rotten Tomatoes. It sucked.

-Jason "what are you talking about?!?!" Evans

Star Trek Into Darkness, and the fact that it sucked.

I would say "the critics are wrong!" except that they probably weren't that far off. Rotten Tomatoes' methodology just makes films in which the overwhelming number of critics give a rating of Meh-plus look like modern classics.

[Olympic Fan]

Star Trek Into Darkness, and the fact that it sucked.

I would say "the critics are wrong!" except that they probably weren't that far off. Rotten Tomatoes' methodology just makes films in which the overwhelming number of critics give a rating of Meh-plus look like modern classics.

I agree with Duvall ...

I am a HUGE Star Trek fan -- much more than a Star Wars fan. I was pleasantly surprised by the Star Trek reboot, but greatly disappointed by Into Darkness. To me, it's The Phantom Menace of the Star Trek Universe.

[JasonEvans]

I agree with Duvall ...

I am a HUGE Star Trek fan -- much more than a Star Wars fan. I was pleasantly surprised by the Star Trek reboot, but greatly disappointed by Into Darkness. To me, it's The Phantom Menace of the Star Trek Universe.

Wow... I mean, Into Darkness was not great but to put it on par with Phantom Menace... whew!

Look I am no great defender of ID. The ending was pretty awful and reviving Kirk from the dead just plain sucked (though it was fairly predictable). But, I enjoyed a lot of it and it was better than many of the previous Star Trek movies (at least 1/3rd and maybe half of the original cast set of movies were waaay worse than ID). It is worth noting that ID has a pretty strong 7.9 user rating on IMDB, which is an excellent measure of how "movie fans" feel about the film. By comparison, the 2009 JJ Abrams Star Trek reboot that almost everyone loves has an IMDB score of 8.0.

Phantom Menace has a pretty weak 6.6 from IMDB.

-Jason "but, to my original point, JJ Abrams credentials as a top notch storyteller are boosted by his handling of both Star Trek films and MI3 as well as his TV work -- Star Wars 7 is in good hands with him, I think " Evans

[brevity]

Wow... I mean, Into Darkness was not great but to put it on par with Phantom Menace... whew!

Look I am no great defender of ID. The ending was pretty awful and reviving Kirk from the dead just plain sucked (though it was fairly predictable). But, I enjoyed a lot of it and it was better than many of the previous Star Trek movies (at least 1/3rd and maybe half of the original cast set of movies were waaay worse than ID). It is worth noting that ID has a pretty strong 7.9 user rating on IMDB, which is an excellent measure of how "movie fans" feel about the film. By comparison, the 2009 JJ Abrams Star Trek reboot that almost everyone loves has an IMDB score of 8.0.

Phantom Menace has a pretty weak 6.6 from IMDB.

-Jason "but, to my original point, JJ Abrams credentials as a top notch storyteller are boosted by his handling of both Star Trek films and MI3 as well as his TV work -- Star Wars 7 is in good hands with him, I think " Evans

I recently rewatched Star Trek Into Darkness. It's a pretty solid film about John Harrison. Then it gets caught up in the Khan mythology and completely falls apart. Benedict Cumberbatch, the palest person to play a character of Indian descent in film history, gets to be an outright villain for about 15 seconds on a ship and about 5 minutes on Earth.

JJ Abrams, top notch storyteller? He made a Star Trek reboot in 2009 that emulated Star Wars, which confirmed the opinion that he really wanted the keys to the other franchise. Now that he has those keys, the hot rumor about Episode VII is that he's doing... some kind of Search for Spock plotline for Luke Skywalker. Make up your mind, dude.

[Wander]

Now that he has those keys, the hot rumor about Episode VII is that he's doing... some kind of Search for Spock plotline for Luke Skywalker. Make up your mind, dude.

Standard disclaimers about suspension of disbelief and how Star Wars isn't actually a science fiction franchise and all that stuff, but still: the hand falling from space to a planet surface and surviving intact idea is really silly.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Standard disclaimers about suspension of disbelief and how Star Wars isn't actually a science fiction franchise and all that stuff, but still: the hand falling from space to a planet surface and surviving intact idea is really silly.

Much less that even before it doesn't burn up in the atmosphere, it is actually still holding onto a light saber. The force is strong in that hand!

[JasonEvans]

Much less that even before it doesn't burn up in the atmosphere, it is actually still holding onto a light saber. The force is strong in that hand!

Well, my bet is that it is not a human flesh hand, but one made of composite metals and the such.


-Jason "ya'll are such cynics!" Evans