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  1. #1

    My Proposal for the NBA

    As I understand it, currently players are on a salary scale their first three years, then free agents.

    My proposal

    Players 0 or 1 year out of high school, same program. 3 years until free agency. I would let players leave straight for the NBA from HS. Why have sham students with no interest in college there.

    Players 2 years out of HS, 2 years until free agency.

    Players 3-4 years out of HS - 1 year until free agency.

    Maybe you need to substitute ages for years out of high school, but you get the picture.

    SoCal

  2. #2
    Seems like that would devalue the guys who stay in school. Much better to select a guy who'll be under contract for 3-years instead of 1.

  3. #3

    Maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Seems like that would devalue the guys who stay in school. Much better to select a guy who'll be under contract for 3-years instead of 1.
    I think some teams would assume that if they had the player for 1 or 2 years and he liked it, then they could resign him.
    Also I think they get the most money if they resign with their team.
    Lastly you might get one year with a super star and an advantage in signing him verses 3 years with a lesser player.

    I will admit I am thinking mostly about removing the player's incentive to leave early.

    SoCal

  4. #4
    First round picks typically sign contracts that are 2+2, as their first two years are then guaranteed and then the team has a Team Option for the next two years which is almost always picked up. That's how players end up on their rookie contract for 4 years. After the 4 years, a player who just finished the 2 year Team Option is now a restricted free agent where a team can resign that player and match any offer made for that player even if they go over the salary cap.

    I personally like the idea of different years on the first contract. My personal idea is:

    Out of high school- 2 years guaranteed, 1 year team option, then 2 more team option years
    1 and done-Current contracts (2 years guaranteed, 2 year team option)
    2+ and done- 2 years guaranteed, 1 year team option.

    After these rookie contracts the players then would be restricted free agents as the current system is set up.

  5. #5
    The only way to incentivize kids to stay in school is to get rid of the rookie pay scale and the salary cap. That's not happening. Twenty years ago (before the rookie pay scale) Glen Robinson's first contact was for $68 million over ten years, Jason Kidds was $60 millions over six years and Grant's was $45 million over eight years. Last year's top pick can be paid about $22 million over four years but is only guaranteed about $11 over two years. This isn't even factoring in inflation which makes Robinson's deal probability around $90-100 million. The NBA made it cheap to go for potential over know quality in the draft. College basketball players had an incentive to stay in school, hone their skills, get marketed and earn a better contract. Also back then sponsorship dollars were bigger because sponsors were getting players who were already house hold names.

  6. #6
    The NBA will never go back to allowing high school kids. They don't want a repeat of Kwame Brown.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    Lastly you might get one year with a super star and an advantage in signing him verses 3 years with a lesser player.
    Very few kids are stars right out of college. Even the best college players usually take at least a couple years to achieve NBA stardom. So it's unlikely an NBA team would spend a valuable early pick on a guy they'd only have for one year. Thus your plan incentivizes NBA teams to ignore 4-year players until (at the earliest) late first round, even more so than happens now. College players would realize this and be almost forced to leave school early. So it seems to me your plan would actually have the opposite effect than what you intend.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Cary, NC
    This plan works great for college fans, but there is no incentive whatsoever for the NBA to do this. You're givng the longest contracts to the players with the highest risk. NBA teams would prefer the opposite. I like amazingballer's variation of at least adding some team options in case they draft a dud, but still, the NBA would likely go with a straight two-year rule or 20 year age minimum before exploring something like this.

    Adam Silver said a few weeks ago that he would even be in favor of the NBA subsidizing players financially while they are in college, which tells you how much he wants to keep kids in school longer.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Richmond, VA

    My proposal for the NBA

    Since the NBA has to negotiate with the players union for any changes to draft status, I thought I would give an alternate proposal which can be enacted by the NCAA dictatorship. The point of these rules is to protect the player who overestimates his basketball ability and ends up not playing anywhere or being out of the league in 3 years.

    First, change the rules for eligibilty. You are still eligible to play in the NCAA as long as you have not been drafted or taken money (that is hire an agent and get a loan).
    This means that if you are undrafted you can come back to school.

    Second, change the number of scholarships. The eligibiity rules will cause coaches to complain that they will not be able to handle their rosters properly so allow everyone to have 15 scholarships. One may argue that this causes more concentration of the best players at the best schools, but players already transfer due to playing time and pick schools based on who is already at the school. The extra scholarships are for the few players that declare each year and then go undrafted.

    Third, when a player signs a letter of intent make it for 4 years of eligible play and 6 years to get a degree. If you leave to play in the NBA and flame out you can come back. The tuition is free but the room and board is not.
    This third change is for the prudent player who realizes that he can only play basketball for so many years but he can come back and take summer school classes and get a degree. The player will also do the math and start to realize that two years at a school and three summers (the one before freshman year is one of these) gets you very close to a degree.

    Finally, set up a freshman year curricululm for the players that includes classes in finance, communication skills and contracts. This would allow the prudent player to be ready to handle the job he wants to pursue. Even if he then flames out of the NBA he has some skills that will help him be part of the basketball industry.
    Last edited by MarkD83; 04-17-2014 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Title should be for the NCAA;

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD83 View Post
    First, change the rules for eligibilty. You are still eligible to play in the NCAA as long as you have not been drafted or taken money (that is hire an agent and get a loan).
    This means that if you are undrafted you can come back to school.
    I would propose that the NBA draft have no bearing on NCAA eligibility, only signing a professional contract would trigger loss of "amateur status". So if a player gets drafted by a crappy franchise with a second round pick or even a late first round pick and would rather stay in school, I think the NCAA should just make that the NBA's problem. I know doing something player-friendly by giving them more choice and control is an abhorrent idea to the NCAA, but I can't understand why they make another entity's draft such a huge restriction on college players. I think a side effect of this would be the NBA only drafting players that they believe would have a higher likelihood of showing up (ie seniors / older players), or may encourage kids to stay in school if they think that is best for their development (similar to how they view European players). Will never happen but it is something the NCAA can do to take more control.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    I would propose that the NBA draft have no bearing on NCAA eligibility, only signing a professional contract would trigger loss of "amateur status". So if a player gets drafted by a crappy franchise with a second round pick or even a late first round pick and would rather stay in school, I think the NCAA should just make that the NBA's problem. I know doing something player-friendly by giving them more choice and control is an abhorrent idea to the NCAA, but I can't understand why they make another entity's draft such a huge restriction on college players. I think a side effect of this would be the NBA only drafting players that they believe would have a higher likelihood of showing up (ie seniors / older players), or may encourage kids to stay in school if they think that is best for their development (similar to how they view European players). Will never happen but it is something the NCAA can do to take more control.
    The system was like that just five years ago. It was the NCAA (at the urging of coaches) that instituted the really early draft entry deadline and destroyed that system. Where in the past players had months to test the waters, the new rules eliminated the period completely. Our own Luol Deng even tired to schedule his NBA workouts on campus in case he changed is mind. It never happened but it quickly became clear he was going to be a high pick. Heck I remember there was even a time when second round picks could come back to college -- after being drafted. Back then signing with an agent was the only way to lose eligibility.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Just a thought: Why the heck does the NCAA play into the NBA's hands by disqualifying players who submit for their names for the draft? The NCAA should basically screw up the NBA draft by allowing anyone who doesn't sign an NBA contract to return to school. I mean, this is war!! Let the NBA sue for peace and restore order to the draft by virtue of a sensible arrangement with the NCAA. "Sensible," in this case, means something other than the catastrophic one-and-done system. The baseball model (zero or three), or two years, or age 20 (21, anyone?) would be several times better than the current system.

    Moreover, while I am on a self-delusional roll, have the NCAA let players accept money from external sources on the basis of pro potential (not on the basis of how rich a school's donors are), if this would allow the best players to remain in school for another year or two. Heck, the NCAA could even create a loan fund and an independent evaluation system. NCAA hoops is a billion-dollar business -- errr, "activity." It should be managed like one.

    Sage Grouse
    'Nearing the end of "compulsory" [eh-heh] lek attendance'
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  13. #13

    It is war

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Just a thought: Why the heck does the NCAA play into the NBA's hands by disqualifying players who submit for their names for the draft? The NCAA should basically screw up the NBA draft by allowing anyone who doesn't sign an NBA contract to return to school. I mean, this is war!! Let the NBA sue for peace and restore order to the draft by virtue of a sensible arrangement with the NCAA. "Sensible," in this case, means something other than the catastrophic one-and-done system. The baseball model (zero or three), or two years, or age 20 (21, anyone?) would be several times better than the current system.
    The NCAA needs to understand that all the NBA cares about is the NBA and that it is war. Of course for a group that took years to figure out that walk-ons should get to eat with the rest of the team, it may be too much to expect this understanding.

    You might have every player in college basketball declare for the draft and then those that were undrafted or did not like their spot come back. Would make for an interesting dynamic. I would suppose that the NBA would tell players to sign with agents before the draft or they will probably be undrafted.

    The NBA rules are all about helping the NBA avoid stupid mistakes. One and done means that they can see some high school phenom at the college level and avoid Kwame Browns. For further protection, a salary scale for the first few years so no one gets a big contract until they are proven at the NBA level. The fact that the scale creates an incentive to get into the NBA as soon as possible to start the clock ticking is not a concern.

    SoCal

  14. #14
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    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    You might have every player in college basketball declare for the draft and then those that were undrafted or did not like their spot come back. Would make for an interesting dynamic. I would suppose that the NBA would tell players to sign with agents before the draft or they will probably be undrafted.SoCal
    It would encourage teams to draft four year players that have already graduated in the second round, which, as you say, would be an interesting dynamic.


    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    The NBA rules are all about helping the NBA avoid stupid mistakes. One and done means that they can see some high school phenom at the college level and avoid Kwame Browns. For further protection, a salary scale for the first few years so no one gets a big contract until they are proven at the NBA level. The fact that the scale creates an incentive to get into the NBA as soon as possible to start the clock ticking is not a concern.SoCal
    Thoughts... a Darko situation could still happen for any European/non-American college player.

    A few years of college still may not be enough to evaluate. Just off the top of my head, Will Avery played two years, Austin Rivers played one year, and both were lottery picks. Don't know if Austin is 3 and out, but overall he has probably had far less impact than hoped. Guys like Alec Burks and Meyers Leonard played two years, were taken mid/late lottery, and haven't produced all that much. Of course there's always last year's #1 pick too!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Just a thought: Why the heck does the NCAA play into the NBA's hands by disqualifying players who submit for their names for the draft? The NCAA should basically screw up the NBA draft by allowing anyone who doesn't sign an NBA contract to return to school.
    You are basically describing the old system. It's the NCAA and college basketball coaches that have created this new system not the NBA. In the last decade, it's the NCAA that has made the system an all or nothing decision. In the past, they allowed players to declare, test the waters and then decided whether to stay or go. Some could get drafted and STILL come back to school. (It was rare). Players could do this after their freshman, sophomore AND junior years. Then the NCAA created a deadline (sometime in June) before the draft for kids to return to school. Then they said you can test the waters only once. The second time you declare you're gone for good. Then the NCAA said no more exploratory period and by the way we are upping the deadline to mid April. (That deadline is bogus anyway. Players have until the NBA deadline two weeks later to declare. What's the NCAA going to do it a kid who declares after their deadline? Make him ineligible? A bit redundant at that point.) The NCAA uses the excuse that they do not want to police the players expenses/benefits during the testing period so they eliminated it. The real reason was a push by coaches (started by the ACC coaches if I remember correctly) to get a quick handle on the roster for next year so they could fill in whatever holes were created.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    You might have every player in college basketball declare for the draft and then those that were undrafted or did not like their spot come back. Would make for an interesting dynamic.
    SoCal
    Not really because it was kind of like that in the past. Definitely less drama for everybody.
    Last edited by Kdogg; 04-17-2014 at 09:17 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    You are basically describing the old system. It's the NCAA and college basketball coaches that have created this new system not the NBA. In the last decade, it's the NCAA that has made the system an all or nothing decision. In the past, they allowed players to declare, test the waters and then decided whether to stay or go. Some could get drafted and STILL come back to school. (It was rare). Players could do this after their freshman, sophomore AND junior years. Then the NCAA created a deadline (sometime in June) before the draft for kids to return to school. Then they said you can test the waters only once. The second time you declare you're gone for good. Then the NCAA said no more exploratory period and by the way we are upping the deadline to mid April. (That deadline is bogus anyway. Players have until the NBA deadline two weeks later to declare. What's the NCAA going to do it a kid who declares after their deadline? Make him ineligible? A bit redundant at that point.) The NCAA uses the excuse that they do not want to police the players expenses/benefits during the testing period so they eliminated it. The real reason was a push by coaches (started by the ACC coaches if I remember correctly) to get a quick handle on the roster for next year so they could fill in whatever holes were created.



    .
    I don't disagree with your post, but I do disagree with the NCAA position. I already pointed out that the NCAA is the "stupid party" in any contest between the colleges and the NBA. The NCAA has done it to themselves. And BTW, the coaches don't get any votes whatsoever. All voting power is vested with the Presidents and the ADs.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    The NCAA has done it to themselves. And BTW, the coaches don't get any votes whatsoever. All voting power is vested with the Presidents and the ADs.
    In theory that may be true but it was reported at the time that the ACC coaches pushed for the early deadline. I don't know the inner workings and politicking of athletic departments.

    http://beta.sportingnews.com/article/184853-ncaa-all-but-eliminates-test-the-water-time-for-underclassmen

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Just a thought: Why the heck does the NCAA play into the NBA's hands by disqualifying players who submit for their names for the draft? The NCAA should basically screw up the NBA draft by allowing anyone who doesn't sign an NBA contract to return to school. I mean, this is war!! Let the NBA sue for peace and restore order to the draft by virtue of a sensible arrangement with the NCAA. "Sensible," in this case, means something other than the catastrophic one-and-done system. The baseball model (zero or three), or two years, or age 20 (21, anyone?) would be several times better than the current system.

    Moreover, while I am on a self-delusional roll, have the NCAA let players accept money from external sources on the basis of pro potential (not on the basis of how rich a school's donors are), if this would allow the best players to remain in school for another year or two. Heck, the NCAA could even create a loan fund and an independent evaluation system. NCAA hoops is a billion-dollar business -- errr, "activity." It should be managed like one.

    Sage Grouse
    'Nearing the end of "compulsory" [eh-heh] lek attendance'
    How would that work?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    In theory that may be true but it was reported at the time that the ACC coaches pushed for the early deadline. I don't know the inner workings and politicking of athletic departments.

    http://beta.sportingnews.com/article...-underclassmen
    The NCAA is not just the "stupid party" -- it's the "stupidest business" in the entire world.

    Suppose you (Little Sister) have a much bigger and richer competitor (Big Brother). You regularly and inevitably lose highly effective technical talent and sales people to the other company. So, to help with staff planning, where jobs take 12-24 months to fill, you tell your employees that if you interview with Big Brother you are immediately fired and can no longer work at Little Sister. We used to call this "cutting off your nose to spite your face."

    Well, duh! Isn't that what the NCAA is doing by declaring ineligible anyone who signs up for the NBA draft, just to see what his "job offer" might be? And doesn't that inevitably lead to less talent in college?

    Staff planning is important, and the lead time of 12-24 months to find new talent for college hoops is real. But, of course, this is a self-inflicted wound as well. To help the school losing the transfer have some control over its roster, ath-a-letes must sit out for a year. But, that's not only wrong (from the athletes' perspective), it's dumb. If the best and most profitable teams lose star talent very early to the NBA, the NCAA can protect them by letting them accept transfers who are immediately eligible. The NCAA must be totally stupid to have policies that hurt the best teams-- the ones that generate all the revenue for college hoops. And, make no mistake, college basketball pays all the bills for the NCAA.

    And look, the NCAA, if it had a brain in its collective head, it would fight to retain the best 10 players in the college games with generous grants or loans of $250K to $1 million. This would be NCAA money, not school money, and the Commissioner of College Basketball (Oh, we don't have one?) would determine who gets what. They could be structured as a grant or a loan -- and could be taxable. Don't you think CBB would generate a heck of a lot more than $10 million extra if Jabari, Wiggins, Embiid, etc. stuck around for an extra year or two. And, of course, went to class.

    Amateur, shmamateur! College hoops is billion-dollar business which is dying on the vine from losing almost all its best and most recognizable players to the NCAA after only one season.

    Get up on your hind legs and fight, you sleeping dogs of stupidity!

    Sage Grouse
    'There that felt better -- getting the truth off my chest'
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 04-18-2014 at 08:02 AM.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

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