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  1. #1

    The Jabari Delusion

    Usually a little hesitant to begin a new thread, I do so because the musings below don't exactly fit in any of 3 existing threads -- Jabari draft vigil, 2014-15 starters/rotation, Turner waiting on Jabari -- but pick up on issues found in all 3. In addition, and most important, I muse below on what happens to the rotation if, delusionally, Jabari were actually to return. [To those who think all the rumours of even a long-shot-possible Jabari-return are nonsense, well, you will not want to waste your time with the false-premise-based musings below.]

    Say, delusionally, Jabari returns. That would, presumably, lead the mods immediately to close the "Musings of 2014-15 Starters & Rotation Players" thread, as the posts therein were not burdened by any Jabari delusions. Burdened by the discombobulating news of Jabari's return, we are undone, and have to muse anew.

    Jabari next season -- at Duke, just so we're clear -- would play both stretch 4 and wing/SF. "Not at the same time," you [particularly those of you who politely declined my well-intentioned advice above] snark. But in a sense, yes. [Among several Jabari delusions...] He would share time at the 4 with Amile, and at the 3 with Justise and/or others.

    In what sense "at the same time"? Jabari is the same player, on O, no matter who the other "forward" is at any particular moment. That is, as during this season, he'll move around. On O. Sometimes he'll be in the corner for a 3, or at the top of the circle, either for a 3 or for a cross-over dribble-blast to the rim. Sometimes he'll post, awaiting a 45-degree entry pass from Tyus; other times a pass from just above the FT line from Jahlil, who sees over everybody. Sometimes he'll attack from the elbow.

    On D, Jabari won't play the 3 and 4 simultaneously. ["Well, that's good." More snark; perfectly understandable.] On the floor with, say, Tyus, Rasheed, Amile, and Jahlil, Jabari guards the opposing wing/3/SF. With, say, Quinn, Tyus, Justise, and Marshall, Jabari guards the opposing PF. Ditto with Tyus, Rasheed, Matt [a few minutes of perimeter-small-ball, with different combos, each game], and Jahlil.

    But no matter whether on D he's guarding the opposing 3 or 4, on O he's moving around. He moved around a lot on O this season, so that's not new.

    As my purpose in this new thread is to encourage a new set of rotation-musings, under the burdensome, but enjoyable, delusion that Jabari returns, I don't see a simple way to muse further about rotation without linking my projections with mpg. Absent some mpg projections, every sentence would have to be qualified to the point of utter confusion. With apologies, then:

    PG -- Tyus 32, Quinn 8
    Wing/2 -- Rasheed 28, Quinn 12
    Wing/3 -- Jabari 14, Justise 16, Matt/Grayson 10
    Stretch 4/PF -- Jabari 18, Amile 22
    C -- Jahlil 30, Marshall 10

    No minutes for Semi? No, and here I think gocanes0506 has it right ....

    Quote Originally Posted by gocanes0506 View Post
    If either Jabari or Hood come back and/or Turner comes here K should look at red shirting Semi.
    Should Jabari return, it seems to me the truth is that every player save Tyus, Jahlil, and Marshall will see greatly or slightly reduced mpg. Well, the truth according to me. If you accept that Jabari is returning -- the premise of this thread -- but believe he will "play" only the 4, ok, then only Amile's minutes go down, way, way down. But, as I've noted above, I think he'll roam on O. Further, despite my high expectations of Justise, and, further still, despite acknowledging that Justise, Matt, and Grayson constitute some very promising wings, I value Amile's proven contributions even more.

    But with a roster of 11 rather than 10, the addition being Jabari, something -- i.e., many minutes -- has to give. And we know both that Krzyzewski is no longer averse to redshirting -- recall the shock of 2 redshirts announced at beginning of 2011-12 -- and that he also regrets not having redshirted Ryan his Fr year. Does he regret not having redshirted Semi last season? I'm not asking, and the answer just now is, probably not. But a returning Jabari is a whole 'nother thing going forward; it's just very tough to find minutes for Semi.

    Could Matt, Grayson, or Amile be redshirted, instead? Yes, but Semi seems the most likely candidate. But is the most likely scenario that no one will redshirt? Close call.

    Now, to other issues in my mpg musing-list. Only 20 for Quinn? Some will insist he might still start. I doubt it, but it's muse-able. Some will find 25 or 28 for him, but I can't. Others will find 4-5 more minutes for Rasheed. Justise fanatics will find at least 22 for him, probably rejecting my prediction that Jabari will play some wing/3/SF. Some will predict substantial improvement for Matt; recent Grayson converts will insist he's got game, right now, 10-15 mpg worth.

    I'm just sayin' ... if Jabari returns, it's a lotta minutes.

    So don't delude yourself.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Usually a little hesitant to begin a new thread, I do so because the musings below don't exactly fit in any of 3 existing threads -- Jabari draft vigil, 2014-15 starters/rotation, Turner waiting on Jabari -- but pick up on issues found in all 3. In addition, and most important, I muse below on what happens to the rotation if, delusionally, Jabari were actually to return. [To those who think all the rumours of even a long-shot-possible Jabari-return are nonsense, well, you will not want to waste your time with the false-premise-based musings below.]

    Say, delusionally, Jabari returns. That would, presumably, lead the mods immediately to close the "Musings of 2014-15 Starters & Rotation Players" thread, as the posts therein were not burdened by any Jabari delusions. Burdened by the discombobulating news of Jabari's return, we are undone, and have to muse anew.

    Jabari next season -- at Duke, just so we're clear -- would play both stretch 4 and wing/SF. "Not at the same time," you [particularly those of you who politely declined my well-intentioned advice above] snark. But in a sense, yes. [Among several Jabari delusions...] He would share time at the 4 with Amile, and at the 3 with Justise and/or others.

    In what sense "at the same time"? Jabari is the same player, on O, no matter who the other "forward" is at any particular moment. That is, as during this season, he'll move around. On O. Sometimes he'll be in the corner for a 3, or at the top of the circle, either for a 3 or for a cross-over dribble-blast to the rim. Sometimes he'll post, awaiting a 45-degree entry pass from Tyus; other times a pass from just above the FT line from Jahlil, who sees over everybody. Sometimes he'll attack from the elbow.

    On D, Jabari won't play the 3 and 4 simultaneously. ["Well, that's good." More snark; perfectly understandable.] On the floor with, say, Tyus, Rasheed, Amile, and Jahlil, Jabari guards the opposing wing/3/SF. With, say, Quinn, Tyus, Justise, and Marshall, Jabari guards the opposing PF. Ditto with Tyus, Rasheed, Matt [a few minutes of perimeter-small-ball, with different combos, each game], and Jahlil.

    But no matter whether on D he's guarding the opposing 3 or 4, on O he's moving around. He moved around a lot on O this season, so that's not new.

    As my purpose in this new thread is to encourage a new set of rotation-musings, under the burdensome, but enjoyable, delusion that Jabari returns, I don't see a simple way to muse further about rotation without linking my projections with mpg. Absent some mpg projections, every sentence would have to be qualified to the point of utter confusion. With apologies, then:

    PG -- Tyus 32, Quinn 8
    Wing/2 -- Rasheed 28, Quinn 12
    Wing/3 -- Jabari 14, Justise 16, Matt/Grayson 10
    Stretch 4/PF -- Jabari 18, Amile 22
    C -- Jahlil 30, Marshall 10

    No minutes for Semi? No, and here I think gocanes0506 has it right ....



    Should Jabari return, it seems to me the truth is that every player save Tyus, Jahlil, and Marshall will see greatly or slightly reduced mpg. Well, the truth according to me. If you accept that Jabari is returning -- the premise of this thread -- but believe he will "play" only the 4, ok, then only Amile's minutes go down, way, way down. But, as I've noted above, I think he'll roam on O. Further, despite my high expectations of Justise, and, further still, despite acknowledging that Justise, Matt, and Grayson constitute some very promising wings, I value Amile's proven contributions even more.

    But with a roster of 11 rather than 10, the addition being Jabari, something -- i.e., many minutes -- has to give. And we know both that Krzyzewski is no longer averse to redshirting -- recall the shock of 2 redshirts announced at beginning of 2011-12 -- and that he also regrets not having redshirted Ryan his Fr year. Does he regret not having redshirted Semi last season? I'm not asking, and the answer just now is, probably not. But a returning Jabari is a whole 'nother thing going forward; it's just very tough to find minutes for Semi.

    Could Matt, Grayson, or Amile be redshirted, instead? Yes, but Semi seems the most likely candidate. But is the most likely scenario that no one will redshirt? Close call.

    Now, to other issues in my mpg musing-list. Only 20 for Quinn? Some will insist he might still start. I doubt it, but it's muse-able. Some will find 25 or 28 for him, but I can't. Others will find 4-5 more minutes for Rasheed. Justise fanatics will find at least 22 for him, probably rejecting my prediction that Jabari will play some wing/3/SF. Some will predict substantial improvement for Matt; recent Grayson converts will insist he's got game, right now, 10-15 mpg worth.

    I'm just sayin' ... if Jabari returns, it's a lotta minutes.

    So don't delude yourself.
    Justise just needs to play in the last 3 minutes of a tight game- defense for offense. He has one job- get a stop
    dukelifer

  3. #3
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    I'll play in that delusion.

    I agree with these two points made by gumbomoop:

    1. If Jabari comes back, there are probably 30-35 minutes out of 200 per game that are unavailable to others. That's significant.
    2. If Jabari comes back, it probably makes sense to redshirt someone, and Semi might be a natural choice. Grayson Allen could be another. Maybe even both.

    But I think it's a mistake to think in terms of specific positions for specific players, except for Jahlil/MP3. Especially for Jabari, about whom K has said over and over he doesn't have a position. K thinks more in terms of bigs and non-bigs, with players called upon under various situations to play here or there on both offense and defense. The focus on who's a PG, who's a SG, who's a SF, and who's a PF just doesn't mesh with what K is trying to do. It's different in special situations, where a player has one position that's so obvious for him (Kyrie for example; already mentioned Jahlil and Marshall), but I think there's way too much emphasis in a lot of threads here as to specific positions for other players. If you listen to K talk about this stuff, I think you'll agree. Just a pet peeve of mine applicable to a lot of threads.

  4. #4
    I'll believe Jabari at the 3 for significant minutes only when I see it. That's not K's style. Most likely is that Jabari, Amile, and Jahlil would split the 80 minutes at the 4/5, with Marshall doing foul trouble spotting. This would be made up for in your chart by Rasheed getting some minutes at the 3.

  5. #5
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    It's definitely not delusion to think that Jabari might come back. He could come back. He could also leave. We don't know anything yet. We have this tendency to ship people to the NBA before they've announced it. Until he decides to enter the NBA draft, he's still an active Duke player and it's not delusion, in my opinion, to think of him as such until that day comes.
    Check out the DBR Podcast!

    2003-2004 HLM
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    I'll believe Jabari at the 3 for significant minutes only when I see it. That's not K's style. Most likely is that Jabari, Amile, and Jahlil would split the 80 minutes at the 4/5, with Marshall doing foul trouble spotting. This would be made up for in your chart by Rasheed getting some minutes at the 3.
    What do you mean it's not K's style?

  7. #7
    If Jabari does come back, I don't see any instance in which Duke would be forced to use Sheed at the 3. He would stay in the back court full-time. Between Oakfor, Jabari, Justise and Amile, there are no meaningful minutes remaining unless someone is in foul trouble and that would be Marshall's role. Back court would be mainly between Sheed, Tyus and Quin. That is a 7 man rotation. Maybe add in Matt Jones or Grayson if he steps up. If Jabari would announce to come back, what's the over under on how long it takes until the thread starts for the undefeated season?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    I'll play in that delusion.

    I agree with these two points made by gumbomoop:

    1. If Jabari comes back, there are probably 30-35 minutes out of 200 per game that are unavailable to others. That's significant.
    2. If Jabari comes back, it probably makes sense to redshirt someone, and Semi might be a natural choice. Grayson Allen could be another. Maybe even both.

    But I think it's a mistake to think in terms of specific positions for specific players, except for Jahlil/MP3. Especially for Jabari, about whom K has said over and over he doesn't have a position. K thinks more in terms of bigs and non-bigs, with players called upon under various situations to play here or there on both offense and defense. The focus on who's a PG, who's a SG, who's a SF, and who's a PF just doesn't mesh with what K is trying to do. It's different in special situations, where a player has one position that's so obvious for him (Kyrie for example; already mentioned Jahlil and Marshall), but I think there's way too much emphasis in a lot of threads here as to specific positions for other players. If you listen to K talk about this stuff, I think you'll agree. Just a pet peeve of mine applicable to a lot of threads.
    I would say it a different way. I think Coach K sees 4 types of players: "big men", "forwards", "wings", and "point guards."

    "Big men" are guys who would translate to PF or C in the NBA. Examples would include the Brand, Burgess, Boozer, Williams, Zoubek, and Okafor. Generally these guys are post-oriented (defensively at least).

    "Forwards" would guys who are a little smaller than the "big men" but bigger than the "wings." Usually they translate to SF in the NBA. This group would include guys like Deng, Battier, Parker, and Hill. Some of these forwards have guard-like skills (Parker, Hill, Singler). Sometimes they have less diverse offensive games (Battier, Deng). Some of them have offensive games more like a big (Lang, Thomas). These guys usually play PF in college, though sometimes they move to SF when the lineup demands (like Singler and Hill as upperclassmen and like Battier as an underclassman).

    "Wings" are guys who would be classically considered SG or SF at the college level, and usually are SG at the NBA level (sometimes smallish SF). Examples would include Redick, Scheyer, Henderson, Nelson, Rivers, Langdon, Ewing, etc. This group of players are generally perimeter-oriented, but their skill sets range from some PG capabilities (like Ewing, Smith, and Scheyer) all the way to some baseline capabilities (like Nelson).

    "Point guards" are a pretty straightforward category. These guys are the best ballhandlers and playmakers. Guys like Hurley, Williams, Duhon, Irving, and (hopefully) Tyus Jones.

    Parker is a classic example of a "forward." He could play SF if needed. He can play PF as well. Either position is feasible.

    That said, if Parker does return (and I will make no comment about whether or not it is delusional to consider it a possibility), I suspect there will be 3 players for whom folks on DBR will fret about minutes. And I think there would be a reasonable threat of a player (or two) deciding to transfer. But we would be a VERY good team with Parker. Like, with the potential (emphasis on "potential") to be one of our best teams ever.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    If Jabari does come back, I don't see any instance in which Duke would be forced to use Sheed at the 3. He would stay in the back court full-time. Between Oakfor, Jabari, Justise and Amile, there are no meaningful minutes remaining unless someone is in foul trouble and that would be Marshall's role. Back court would be mainly between Sheed, Tyus and Quin. That is a 7 man rotation. Maybe add in Matt Jones or Grayson if he steps up. If Jabari would announce to come back, what's the over under on how long it takes until the thread starts for the undefeated season?
    Even in Jabari delusion world, there will be a very familiar, very formidable foe nearby -- UNC.

    They don't lose much, return some very good players, and some who can develop further, plus their new talent is in the right places -- shooters and ball handlers. I'd say they would be able to play pretty well vs Jabari's Duke team, but of course I do remember Jabari laid 30 and 11 on them in Cameron.

    **Quick edit...looks like McAdoo may not be part of that 2014-15 UNC team; that's a significant loss, IMO.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    I'll believe Jabari at the 3 for significant minutes only when I see it. That's not K's style.
    There's a sense in which I think I agree with you - and yet, wouldn't Kyle Singler be Exhibit A to the contrary? He played almost exclusively at the 3 for his last two seasons at Duke.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I would say it a different way. I think Coach K sees 4 types of players: "big men", "forwards", "wings", and "point guards."

    "Big men" are guys who would translate to PF or C in the NBA. Examples would include the Brand, Burgess, Boozer, Williams, Zoubek, and Okafor. Generally these guys are post-oriented (defensively at least).

    "Forwards" would guys who are a little smaller than the "big men" but bigger than the "wings." Usually they translate to SF in the NBA. This group would include guys like Deng, Battier, Parker, and Hill. Some of these forwards have guard-like skills (Parker, Hill, Singler). Sometimes they have less diverse offensive games (Battier, Deng). Some of them have offensive games more like a big (Lang, Thomas). These guys usually play PF in college, though sometimes they move to SF when the lineup demands (like Singler and Hill as upperclassmen and like Battier as an underclassman).

    "Wings" are guys who would be classically considered SG or SF at the college level, and usually are SG at the NBA level (sometimes smallish SF). Examples would include Redick, Scheyer, Henderson, Nelson, Rivers, Langdon, Ewing, etc. This group of players are generally perimeter-oriented, but their skill sets range from some PG capabilities (like Ewing, Smith, and Scheyer) all the way to some baseline capabilities (like Nelson).

    "Point guards" are a pretty straightforward category. These guys are the best ballhandlers and playmakers. Guys like Hurley, Williams, Duhon, Irving, and (hopefully) Tyus Jones.

    Parker is a classic example of a "forward." He could play SF if needed. He can play PF as well. Either position is feasible.

    That said, if Parker does return (and I will make no comment about whether or not it is delusional to consider it a possibility), I suspect there will be 3 players for whom folks on DBR will fret about minutes. And I think there would be a reasonable threat of a player (or two) deciding to transfer. But we would be a VERY good team with Parker. Like, with the potential (emphasis on "potential") to be one of our best teams ever.
    Except we've seen Quinn play off-guard, Jabari and Amile defend the post, Rasheed and Scheyer play the point, etc. etc. It would be easy to say that they're playing out of position, but it seems more plausible to say they're playing in position and that the positions are more fluid under K than an easy reduction to 5 (or as you suggest 4) positions.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    Except we've seen Quinn play off-guard, Jabari and Amile defend the post, Rasheed and Scheyer play the point, etc. etc. It would be easy to say that they're playing out of position, but it seems more plausible to say they're playing in position and that the positions are more fluid under K than an easy reduction to 5 (or as you suggest 4) positions.
    I feel it is really unlikely - even in this Jabari parallel universe - that Scheyer sees any meaningful minutes next season at the point.

    Book it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    There's a sense in which I think I agree with you - and yet, wouldn't Kyle Singler be Exhibit A to the contrary? He played almost exclusively at the 3 for his last two seasons at Duke.
    Fair, but IMO that's only because the issue was forced due to a ridiculous lack of depth at guard in 2010 (obviously, didn't hurt us) and Kyrie's injury in 2011. So I guess I should amend my statement to say that I'm assuming there are no health/transfer surprises on the roster next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    Except we've seen Quinn play off-guard, Jabari and Amile defend the post, Rasheed and Scheyer play the point, etc. etc. It would be easy to say that they're playing out of position, but it seems more plausible to say they're playing in position and that the positions are more fluid under K than an easy reduction to 5 (or as you suggest 4) positions.
    I disagree. I think the "playing out of position" is absolutely the most plausible explanation. How many times this year did Coach K make references to not having a big man? How many times did Coach K talk about lacking a PG in 2009? Answer: a lot. Somebody has to defend the center spot. That's why we saw Jefferson, Hairston, and Parker take time at C this year (because we just didn't have a solid alternative, as Plumlee wasn't ready). And somebody has to run the offense. That's why we had Scheyer play PG (because we didn't have another capable PG on the roster).

    The "wing" position is flexible in that all you need to be is a good shooter and somewhat athletic to be an adequate wing. That's why you will so often see PG splaying some wing as well. If you're a PG, presumably you're quick/athletic enough for the wing, and if you are a PG who can shoot then you can play as a small wing. That's what happened to Paulus (who wasn't quick enough to play PG but could shoot) and Cook (due to shaky PG play).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I would say it a different way. I think Coach K sees 4 types of players: "big men", "forwards", "wings", and "point guards."

    "Big men" are guys who would translate to PF or C in the NBA. Examples would include the Brand, Burgess, Boozer, Williams, Zoubek, and Okafor. Generally these guys are post-oriented (defensively at least).

    "Forwards" would guys who are a little smaller than the "big men" but bigger than the "wings." Usually they translate to SF in the NBA. This group would include guys like Deng, Battier, Parker, and Hill. Some of these forwards have guard-like skills (Parker, Hill, Singler). Sometimes they have less diverse offensive games (Battier, Deng). Some of them have offensive games more like a big (Lang, Thomas). These guys usually play PF in college, though sometimes they move to SF when the lineup demands (like Singler and Hill as upperclassmen and like Battier as an underclassman).

    "Wings" are guys who would be classically considered SG or SF at the college level, and usually are SG at the NBA level (sometimes smallish SF). Examples would include Redick, Scheyer, Henderson, Nelson, Rivers, Langdon, Ewing, etc. This group of players are generally perimeter-oriented, but their skill sets range from some PG capabilities (like Ewing, Smith, and Scheyer) all the way to some baseline capabilities (like Nelson).

    "Point guards" are a pretty straightforward category. These guys are the best ballhandlers and playmakers. Guys like Hurley, Williams, Duhon, Irving, and (hopefully) Tyus Jones.

    Parker is a classic example of a "forward." He could play SF if needed. He can play PF as well. Either position is feasible.

    That said, if Parker does return (and I will make no comment about whether or not it is delusional to consider it a possibility), I suspect there will be 3 players for whom folks on DBR will fret about minutes. And I think there would be a reasonable threat of a player (or two) deciding to transfer. But we would be a VERY good team with Parker. Like, with the potential (emphasis on "potential") to be one of our best teams ever.
    Don't forget our 2001 National title team played 6'9'' Mike Dunleavy at the 3/SF position. We also used 6'6" Nate Dawg at the 3/SF and the 2/SG positions that year. I could definitely see Jabari doing this as well on a team with Big-Jah and Amile. Size would no longer be an issue in the paint on D and we haven't had a team that big with that kind of talent since 2001. If we want a bigger team we could go Okafor, Jefferson, Parker, Justise, and Jones. If we want to go smaller with more shooters (K preferred strategy, typically) we could go Okafor, Parker, Suilamon, Cook, and Jones. With a PG like Jones, however, I think we might tend to go with a more in between lineup like Okafor, Jefferson, Parker, Sulaimon, and Jones. Either way, I see Jabari getting minutes at both the 3/SF and 4/PF positions. What do you think?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    It's definitely not delusion to think that Jabari might come back. He could come back. He could also leave. We don't know anything yet. We have this tendency to ship people to the NBA before they've announced it. Until he decides to enter the NBA draft, he's still an active Duke player and it's not delusion, in my opinion, to think of him as such until that day comes.
    Nope, it's a delusion. Sure there are and have been numerous reports out there since he came to Duke saying that he was seriously considering staying, but he's definitely going pro. There are no examples of a projected sure-fire lottery pick staying in college, and definitely no examples within the last 12 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potato Head View Post
    Nope, it's a delusion. Sure there are and have been numerous reports out there since he came to Duke saying that he was seriously considering staying, but he's definitely going pro. There are no examples of a projected sure-fire lottery pick staying in college, and definitely no examples within the last 12 months.
    You mean other than Marcus Smart?

    Please realize that we enter Jabari Delusion World voluntarily and confine your negativity (realism?) to other threads, thank you.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I disagree. I think the "playing out of position" is absolutely the most plausible explanation. How many times this year did Coach K make references to not having a big man? How many times did Coach K talk about lacking a PG in 2009? Answer: a lot. Somebody has to defend the center spot. That's why we saw Jefferson, Hairston, and Parker take time at C this year (because we just didn't have a solid alternative, as Plumlee wasn't ready). And somebody has to run the offense. That's why we had Scheyer play PG (because we didn't have another capable PG on the roster).

    The "wing" position is flexible in that all you need to be is a good shooter and somewhat athletic to be an adequate wing. That's why you will so often see PG splaying some wing as well. If you're a PG, presumably you're quick/athletic enough for the wing, and if you are a PG who can shoot then you can play as a small wing. That's what happened to Paulus (who wasn't quick enough to play PG but could shoot) and Cook (due to shaky PG play).
    It's certainly possible to create a team based on 4 or 5 rigid categories. For example you could have Miles Plumlee, Sheldon Williams, Mike Dunleavy, J.J. Redick and Kyrie Irving on a team and have a 5-4-3-2-1 with clearly defined roles (just an example, not an ideal). It's a bit easier if you use only four categories. But even still, Duke under K has almost never had that kind of specialization luxury (or is it a curse?), meaning that nearly every year several players are either "playing out of position" a lot of the time or just playing versatile roles based on their individual strengths, weaknesses, and situational or game match ups. Bigs and non-bigs. Athletes. Players.

    I think the nomenclature used even bears that out. People talk about 4-5's or 3-4's or 2-3s or 1-2's or the "stretch 4" or a "player who can play the 2, 3, or 4." And real life examples abound. The categories just don't hold up. Don't take my word for it. Two examples: K has repeatedly said he wanted Jabari Parker not to think of himself as having a specific position, not out of necessity, but because of versatility. Same thing with Singler. I don't think K was joking when he was asked what Singler's position was, and K said, "Winner." I just don't think K thinks in terms of 4 or 5 categories. I think he looks at every team, every player, and asks what their roles might be situationally. At the most, I'd say there are 3 categories for him, reflecting the old school breakdown: Center, Forward, Guard. And even then the lines get blurred in the modern Duke game.

    So to tie this back to the thread, if Jabari comes back -- and I love luxuriating in that delusion -- the lines will continue to be blurred, and the breakdown of 4 or 5 specific positions will continue into 2. Maybe 3. Maybe none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potato Head View Post
    Nope, it's a delusion. Sure there are and have been numerous reports out there since he came to Duke saying that he was seriously considering staying, but he's definitely going pro. There are no examples of a projected sure-fire lottery pick staying in college, and definitely no examples within the last 12 months.
    Stop deluding yourself that he is leaving. That is not for this thread.

  20. #20
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    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato Head View Post
    Nope, it's a delusion. Sure there are and have been numerous reports out there since he came to Duke saying that he was seriously considering staying, but he's definitely going pro. There are no examples of a projected sure-fire lottery pick staying in college, and definitely no examples within the last 12 months.
    Blake Griffin? Jared Sullinger? Worked out for Griffin, less so for Sullinger. But what's the difference between "no examples" and "definitely no examples"?

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