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  1. #1
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    Musings Of 2014-15 Starters & Rotation Players

    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Kid has a soft jumper. That is hard to teach.
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Best thing I see is that twice in this clip, he dribbled inside the 3-line for a pull-up jumper. Good handle, sudden stop, big elevation, smooth shot.
    Yeah, I'm interested to see more of Grayson in action, even in all-star games.

    Seems to me that he and Matt Jones will compete pretty directly for minutes next year. Matt has some good points, including some pretty good basics on defense, but we didn't see a soft touch or smooth jumper from him this last year.

  2. #2
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    On top of the other recruits and the upper class men many people don't seem to think Grayson gets much PT. Really? Anyway K needs to think a bit more on how to get more out of a young team...
    Last edited by Furniture; 03-31-2014 at 10:31 PM. Reason: Burro

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    On top of the other recruits and the upper class men many people don't seem to think Grayson gets much PT. Really?
    Yup. Just because you're a good athlete doesn't mean you play. Look at Semi. I think Grayson is far more likely to get run than Semi was last year though.
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  4. #4
    Reports out of McD's AA practice have stated that Grayson has been one of the more impressive guys on both ends this week. If his defense is serviceable and he can be a knock down shooter, which is kind of what we need next year, then as previously stated, it would be hard to keep him out of the line-up.
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    On top of the other recruits and the upper class men many people don't seem to think Grayson gets much PT. Really? Anyway K needs to think a bit more on how to get more out of a young team...
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Kid has moxie. Will be hard to keep him out of the lineup.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    Reports out of McD's AA practice have stated that Grayson has been one of the more impressive guys on both ends this week. If his defense is serviceable and he can be a knock down shooter, which is kind of what we need next year, then as previously stated, it would be hard to keep him out of the line-up.
    Quote Originally Posted by InSpades View Post
    The Crazies might riot if he doesn't get on the court. K might want to keep that in mind when deciding playing time .
    I think Grayson, Matt, and Justise (and maybe Semi) are all in the mix to start at the 3. (I'm not one who believes Tyus-Quinn-Sheed will happen on the perimeter.) Might very well be Grayson who emerges as the winner there.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I think Grayson, Matt, and Justise (and maybe Semi) are all in the mix to start at the 3. (I'm not one who believes Tyus-Quinn-Sheed will happen on the perimeter.) Might very well be Grayson who emerges as the winner there.
    History is certainly not on Grayson's side as to his winning a starting spot. Kedsy, I believe, did an in-depth analysis of the recruiting rankings of freshman who start a significant number of games their freshman years. Generally, those freshman are top 5 (Kyrie, Kyle,Austin, Jabari) OR they simply have no competition due to graduation/NBA attrition from the previous year's roster (Jon and Lance). One notable exception is Greg Paulus who beat out Dockery despite being "only" 13th in the RSCI. Rasheed also claimed a starting spot as a freshman despite not being top ten, beating out redshirt freshman Alex Murphy.

    Grayson seems like a possibility to play at either wing spot, assuming we play with a point guard, two wing/shooting guards and two forwards in the starting lineup. There are, admittedly, a lot of minutes opening up there with Tyler and Andre definitely gone and Rodney almost certainly leaving. However, even in that situation, Grayson would likely need to leapfrog one of junior Rasheed or senior Quinn (assuming Tyus starts) and, in the process also beat out sophomore and top 30 recruit Matt, top 15 recruit Justise, and perhaps even sophomore Semi depending on whether or not they overlap at the 3 spot.

    It's certainly possible, but to be frank, I hope that our returnees Semi, Rasheed, Matt, and Quinn improve enough to demand minutes. I also hope that Justise is the versatile defender/wing that we've lacked since Kyle graduated (even if Jabari was quite the offensive force at that spot). I also hope Grayson is every bit as good or better than advertised and sees court time, but I hope that our other guys improve so much that Grayson, even if he exceeds expectations, still needs only to fill a role off the bench. Unless he ends up looking like a lottery pick, I doubt he ends up leapfrogging everyone to start as a freshman.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke76 View Post
    his shot looks a lot like Mike Dunleavy kinda moves like him too...IMo it those 4 starting and pick one, Rasheed i guess...
    I'll bet a fair amount that it doesn't happen that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furniture View Post
    On top of the other recruits and the upper class men many people don't seem to think Grayson gets much PT. Really?
    Yes, really. It's a numbers game. Grayson plays wing, and will be behind Tyus, Rasheed, Quinn, Justise, and probably Matt. The sixth (or even fifth) perimeter guy doesn't get a lot of minutes at Duke (or most other places, frankly).

    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    History is certainly not on Grayson's side as to his winning a starting spot. Kedsy, I believe, did an in-depth analysis of the recruiting rankings of freshman who start a significant number of games their freshman years. Generally, those freshman are top 5 (Kyrie, Kyle,Austin, Jabari) OR they simply have no competition due to graduation/NBA attrition from the previous year's roster (Jon and Lance). One notable exception is Greg Paulus who beat out Dockery despite being "only" 13th in the RSCI. Rasheed also claimed a starting spot as a freshman despite not being top ten, beating out redshirt freshman Alex Murphy.

    Grayson seems like a possibility to play at either wing spot, assuming we play with a point guard, two wing/shooting guards and two forwards in the starting lineup. There are, admittedly, a lot of minutes opening up there with Tyler and Andre definitely gone and Rodney almost certainly leaving. However, even in that situation, Grayson would likely need to leapfrog one of junior Rasheed or senior Quinn (assuming Tyus starts) and, in the process also beat out sophomore and top 30 recruit Matt, top 15 recruit Justise, and perhaps even sophomore Semi depending on whether or not they overlap at the 3 spot.

    It's certainly possible, but to be frank, I hope that our returnees Semi, Rasheed, Matt, and Quinn improve enough to demand minutes. I also hope that Justise is the versatile defender/wing that we've lacked since Kyle graduated (even if Jabari was quite the offensive force at that spot). I also hope Grayson is every bit as good or better than advertised and sees court time, but I hope that our other guys improve so much that Grayson, even if he exceeds expectations, still needs only to fill a role off the bench. Unless he ends up looking like a lottery pick, I doubt he ends up leapfrogging everyone to start as a freshman.
    Yeah, I'm working on a new piece I plan to post after the final 2014 RSCI comes out in a couple months. The gist of it is you can predict with a decent amount of accuracy who will be in Duke's rotation based on a combination of recruiting ranking and how many years the player has been in the Duke system. Top 4 or 5 perimeter guys and top 3 bigs are in the rotation (very occasionally we go to a 4th big). Greg Paulus and Rasheed Sulaimon as freshmen (as well as Jon Scheyer, Gerald Henderson, and Lance Thomas as freshmen) were not top 10 but made the cut because there weren't enough people ahead of them. Grayson Allen isn't going to get that benefit, and unless he's really improved since last summer's RSCI, he's very unlikely to crack the top 4 or 5 perimeter guys, and thus probably won't play very much except early season and in blowouts.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by COYS View Post
    Grayson would likely need to leapfrog one of junior Rasheed or senior Quinn (assuming Tyus starts) and, in the process also beat out sophomore and top 30 recruit Matt, top 15 recruit Justise, and perhaps even sophomore Semi depending on whether or not they overlap at the 3 spot.

    It's certainly possible, but to be frank, I hope that our returnees Semi, Rasheed, Matt, and Quinn improve enough to demand minutes. I also hope that Justise is the versatile defender/wing that we've lacked since Kyle graduated (even if Jabari was quite the offensive force at that spot). I also hope Grayson is every bit as good or better than advertised and sees court time, but I hope that our other guys improve so much that Grayson, even if he exceeds expectations, still needs only to fill a role off the bench. Unless he ends up looking like a lottery pick, I doubt he ends up leapfrogging everyone to start as a freshman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Yes, really. It's a numbers game. Grayson plays wing, and will be behind Tyus, Rasheed, Quinn, Justise, and probably Matt. The sixth (or even fifth) perimeter guy doesn't get a lot of minutes at Duke (or most other places.
    I'm confident that COYS and Kedsy are assuming no Parker, Hood, or Turner, as am I in my response. In the event that any of those 3 are at Duke next year, it's a different conversation. And this PT conversation will continue, in many different threads, over the summer. But just for now, it pops up because we were actually able to see Grayson display some of his talents, so he's the focus temporarily.

    Fair to say, I think, that both COYS and Kedsy are sensibly tempering over-enthusiastic expectations re Grayson. I hope COYS will accept a friendly amendment, in that even among most Grayson enthusiasts, the central issue isn't whether he'll start, but whether he'll be in the rotation.

    COYS says that Grayson, "if he exceeds expectations," might play "a role off the bench." To which Kedsy, generally agreeing with COYS's post, asserts that Greyson looks to be #6 perimeter player, and thus not likely in the rotation as season moves along.

    I suspect that the consensus default preference on EK is against small ball for more than a few minutes. Therefore, after his not getting much talk on some threads, Justise has emerged over the last few days as a sort of consensus starter. So the consensus [not unanimous, just rough consensus] starters seem to be Tyus, Rasheed, Justise, Amile, Jahlil. Anti-consensus voices will understandably complain that 3 of those fellows have yet to play a college game. Proponents of our only senior, Quinn, will insist that we shouldn't write him off as a starter, but unless he were inserted into a starting-scenario for Rasheed, to start him at the 2 with Rasheed at the 3 is to start small-ball, so that's gotta be rethought.

    Perhaps another anti-consensus voice will insist that Justise is no certain starter at wing/3; but penciling in Matt there is small-ball, and predicting Semi as wing/3 starter might be a hard sell this early.

    So, I intuit a rough consensus, currently, for a starting-lineup-scenario that does include 3 untested, but undoubtedly talented, frosh, balanced by 2 experienced juniors. It has the further default halo-effect of looking like each putative starter actually, "logically," fits his position. That is, Tyus sure seems like a PG, Rasheed sure seems to be a wing/2 combo guard, Justise is a "classic" wing/SF, Amile is a PF - alas not a stretch 4, but next season not out of position as a 5. And Jahlil is a 5, period.

    Back to Grayson, which leads to the rotation. No one expects that by mid-season K will play 10 guys. Many would be thrilled if he played 8 and 1/2, the 9th guy getting maybe 5 mpg. Surely there's a default consensus that if Quinn doesn't start, he'll get solid minutes. How about 15-25 mpg? Plenty of latitude there for snarky arguments the next 6 months. Surely we almost all think Marshall backs up Jahlil, maybe 12 mpg?

    Eighth guy gets meaningful minutes, 9th guy might get a regular cameo, 10th guy gradually moves toward DNP. [K: "It's not personal. It 's the truth."] Cases can, and over the summer will, be made for Matt, Semi, and Grayson. M and S know the system, G doesn't. S is only one of those 3 who could possibly back up Amile. [But what if Justise, no weakling he either, spends some time at 4?]. S's handle the weakest of the 3. M's handle didn't look [to me] all that solid last season, a bit of a surprise, as he was said to have improved his handle to PG-level efficiency his senior year in HS. Not so. So, G seems to have best handle of the 3, along with very promising multiple-skills on O.

    I will be surprised if these 3 talented players aren't fighting for the 8/9 spots. Semi's best chance seems as backup 4, especially if he is a bit of a stretch 4. Matt's best chance is an improved handle, improved shot, improved confidence. Grayson's best chance might be as an instant-O threat.

    Or maybe Grayson's best chance is his confidence in his multi-O-game, neither of which [(1) multi: handle, vision, hops, shot, and (2) moxie ] he seems to lack. His stock, after all, does seem to have risen during his Sr year. One could protest, perhaps, that he was chosen for the McD game because of the Duke-effect. Or one might so have protested before tonight's display.

    Four starters are near-certain [unless Amile isn't....]. Justise isn't going to concede a possible starting spot to anyone. Marshall is going to play, or we're going to fire K. Quinn will have a significant role.

    The other 3, and the fight for #8? Not sure, but I don't think Grayson is #10.

    ETA: apologies to Troublemaker, who had posted just above COYS and Kedsy:

    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I think Grayson, Matt, and Justise (and maybe Semi) are all in the mix to start at the 3. (I'm not one who believes Tyus-Quinn-Sheed will happen on the perimeter.) Might very well be Grayson who emerges as the winner there.
    Troublemaker, making even more trouble than I, seems willing to push Grayson ahead of Justise at the wing/3.
    Last edited by gumbomoop; 04-01-2014 at 02:08 AM.

  9. #9
    I have no idea who they will start, but I think it's a good thing as this team certainly has a lot of ways they can go. They have a huge post player who looms as being dominant on the block, something they didn't have last year. Justise has great size and athleticism to play the 3, but I could also see them play the more experienced Rasheed and Matt Jones on the wing. I think Jones will have a good chance to get minutes this season, much more likely than Grayson. Not sure it'd be my choice, but it's certainly possible that K could try Tyus Jones and Quinn in the back court as well, even with Rasheed on the wing. But size wise, Tyus Jones, Rasheed, Justise, Amile and Jahlil sounds like a good lineup to me, but a more experienced lineup could easily be given first opportunity.
    Not that it necessarily matters, lineups and rotations will probably change throughout the season. Although hopefully far less than this past season as there was just so much inconsistency.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBecker View Post
    I have no idea who they will start, but I think it's a good thing as this team certainly has a lot of ways they can go. They have a huge post player who looms as being dominant on the block, something they didn't have last year. Justise has great size and athleticism to play the 3, but I could also see them play the more experienced Rasheed and Matt Jones on the wing. I think Jones will have a good chance to get minutes this season, much more likely than Grayson. Not sure it'd be my choice, but it's certainly possible that K could try Tyus Jones and Quinn in the back court as well, even with Rasheed on the wing. But size wise, Tyus Jones, Rasheed, Justise, Amile and Jahlil sounds like a good lineup to me, but a more experienced lineup could easily be given first opportunity.
    Not that it necessarily matters, lineups and rotations will probably change throughout the season. Although hopefully far less than this past season as there was just so much inconsistency.
    I really like Matt Jones, but if his shooting doesn't improve he will be non existent in Duke's offense. He's a good defender but he is a terrible shooter. But Coach K values defense, so you might be correct and he'll get major minutes. I hope that Justise is very good both on offense and on defense and he's the starter at the SF position. We need defense that's for sure. GoDuke!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Troublemaker, making even more trouble than I, seems willing to push Grayson
    Haha, just a benign suggestion that Grayson might be more in the mix than we thought. (Although I certainly find the points COYS and Kedsy make to be very good and reasonable.)

    One reason why Grayson might play ahead of Matt or Justise is shooting ability. Since we're going to pound the ball inside to Jahlil, and Amile is not a stretch 4, we will absolutely require good shooting from the 1, 2, and 3 spots, imo. So, if Matt hasn't fixed his shot by next season, and if scouting reports are correct about Justise not being a good shooter, Grayson might very well push ahead.

    Also, let's take a look at Coach K's official statement when these four recruits signed:

    “We’re ecstatic about the four young men that are coming to Duke,” said Krzyzewski. “Grayson Allen committed to us very early. We believe he’s an explosive wing. Terrific offensive and defensive player. We consider Jahlil Okafor as good a big man as there is in the country, but not just a big man, we think he’s a great basketball player. He’s had an amazing amount of experience playing for the United States and for a great high school program. In Tyus Jones, I think we have the best point guard in the country. Someone who has won state championships, USA championships and is the consummate leader on the court. Justise Winslow is a great wing player. He is a guy that can guard every position and is an amazing rebounder and scorer. The great thing about all four of the kids is that they want to share a spotlight and they want to be on a great team. They’re team first guys, even though they have this excellent amount of individual talent.”
    Coach K compliments the defensive ability of BOTH Justise and Grayson. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Grayson is a better defender than Justise or that he's close enough in defensive ability to Justise to allow Grayson's superior shooting to carry the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    I
    Four starters are near-certain [unless Amile isn't....]
    Ooh, I wouldn't lock up PG for Tyus just yet. It's funny. If Coach K hadn't done that press conference last week, I would've absolutely fielded all bets on who starts at PG, and I would've taken Quinn. Good thing for me Coach K had that presser! Still, I think Quinn is going to be in the mix there, too. I believe we have two positions up for grabs: the 1 and the 3, with only Sheed, Amile, and Jahlil as "near locks."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I think Grayson, Matt, and Justise (and maybe Semi) are all in the mix to start at the 3. (I'm not one who believes Tyus-Quinn-Sheed will happen on the perimeter.) Might very well be Grayson who emerges as the winner there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Ooh, I wouldn't lock up PG for Tyus just yet. It's funny. If Coach K hadn't done that press conference last week, I would've absolutely fielded all bets on who starts at PG, and I would've taken Quinn. Good thing for me Coach K had that presser! Still, I think Quinn is going to be in the mix there, too. I believe we have two positions up for grabs: the 1 and the 3, with only Sheed, Amile, and Jahlil as "near locks."
    I think at this point the most likely scenario is that Tyus, Quinn and Rasheed will start on the perimeter. If K was willing to go with Quinn-Seth-Rasheed last season, a relatively small trio, I don't see why he wouldn't be willing to go with Quinn-Tyus-Rasheed. In my mind, those three will be the best (in terms of talent and experience) perimeter players on the team, and that's a good enough reason to believe they'll all be starting.

    There are of course exceptions to the start-your-three-best-perimeter-players rule -- like whenever Tyler started for leadership/defense -- but I think the most likely scenario is that K will go with his three best perimeter players, who are probably Quinn, Tyus and Rasheed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wk2109 View Post
    I think at this point the most likely scenario is that Tyus, Quinn and Rasheed will start on the perimeter. If K was willing to go with Quinn-Seth-Rasheed last season, a relatively small trio, I don't see why he wouldn't be willing to go with Quinn-Tyus-Rasheed. In my mind, those three will be the best (in terms of talent and experience) perimeter players on the team, and that's a good enough reason to believe they'll all be starting.

    There are of course exceptions to the start-your-three-best-perimeter-players rule -- like whenever Tyler started for leadership/defense -- but I think the most likely scenario is that K will go with his three best perimeter players, who are probably Quinn, Tyus and Rasheed.
    Disagree. Not strong enough defensively, and the status quo in that regard won't cut it with Coach K in 2014-15.

    Tyus and Rasheed will be the primary backcourt IMO, with Justise eventually getting the most minutes at SF (where Matt Jones and Grayson Allen will get some opportunities, too.)
    Quinn's role? He'll play some, mostly coming off the bench as a shooting threat; just doesn't give us enough defense IMO.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wk2109 View Post
    I think at this point the most likely scenario is that Tyus, Quinn and Rasheed will start on the perimeter. If K was willing to go with Quinn-Seth-Rasheed last season, a relatively small trio, I don't see why he wouldn't be willing to go with Quinn-Tyus-Rasheed. In my mind, those three will be the best (in terms of talent and experience) perimeter players on the team, and that's a good enough reason to believe they'll all be starting.

    There are of course exceptions to the start-your-three-best-perimeter-players rule -- like whenever Tyler started for leadership/defense -- but I think the most likely scenario is that K will go with his three best perimeter players, who are probably Quinn, Tyus and Rasheed.
    Some of it is consideration of alternatives. Last season our bench was Thornton (who doesn't cure height issues), two power forwards (Hairston, Jefferson), a center (Plumlee 3), and a redshirt freshman who simply wasn't ready to contribute (Murphy).

    Next season, the following people are available to play minutes at the 3 - Jones, Ojeleye, and Winslow. Obviously we haven't seen Winslow in college yet, and Ojeleye got limited action, but I'd say all three of those are likely better options at the 3 than Murphy was last season.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    Disagree. Not strong enough defensively, and the status quo in that regard won't cut it with Coach K in 2014-15.

    Tyus and Rasheed will be the primary backcourt IMO, with Justise eventually getting the most minutes at SF (where Matt Jones and Grayson Allen will get some opportunities, too.)
    Quinn's role? He'll play some, mostly coming off the bench as a shooting threat; just doesn't give us enough defense IMO.
    I agree that defense would be the main reason Quinn-Tyus-Rasheed wouldn't work, but would starting 2 freshmen on the perimeter definitely be a better option? Seth wasn't known as a good defender because he wasn't laterally quick, but the 2012-2013 team was solid defensively (finished #31 on kenpom and probably would have finished higher had Ryan not gotten hurt). I think Seth's experience in the system helped him overcome his physicial deficiencies. I'd guess that Quinn's experience would make him more effective than a freshman option.

    I would trust experienced talent over inexperienced talent given similar talent levels, which is why I think Quinn will start over any freshman.

  16. #16
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    Also, who starts is probably less of an issue than how often we play with 3-guard lineups. I absolutely think we'll play minutes with 3-guard lineups, but it's hard to imagine, particularly early in the season, that we'll play more than 10 or so of those minutes a game. If each of Cook, Sulaimon, and Jones average 30 mpg, they average 90 collectively which means only 10 minutes with of them as a third guard (if you think Grayson Allen is getting early season minutes on top of those 90, then there are some additional 3rd guard minutes). But that leaves the substantial majority of the game with somebody bigger in the 3 spot.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    Some of it is consideration of alternatives. Last season our bench was Thornton (who doesn't cure height issues), two power forwards (Hairston, Jefferson), a center (Plumlee 3), and a redshirt freshman who simply wasn't ready to contribute (Murphy).

    Next season, the following people are available to play minutes at the 3 - Jones, Ojeleye, and Winslow. Obviously we haven't seen Winslow in college yet, and Ojeleye got limited action, but I'd say all three of those are likely better options at the 3 than Murphy was last season.
    It depends on what you mean by "better" though. K has a more global perspective on a lineup than coaches who fit the best suited players into each position 1 through 5. Even if Murphy were more ready last year, Rasheed still would have started over him if Rasheed was the better player, despite Murphy physically fitting the mold of a 3 better than Rasheed. So what I mean to say is that I think "better" applies more to the combination of guys than to each individual guy fitting into a spot 1 through 5.

    I've always felt that K's main rule of thumb is the play the best players, which is why he was ok with perimeter trios of Dockery-Duhon-Ewing or Thornton-Curry-Cook for several minutes at a time, despite there being a more prototypical 3 available like Melchionni or Murphy. There are obviously exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, talent trumps height/physical attributes.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by wk2109 View Post
    I agree that defense would be the main reason Quinn-Tyus-Rasheed wouldn't work, but would starting 2 freshmen on the perimeter definitely be a better option? Seth wasn't known as a good defender because he wasn't laterally quick, but the 2012-2013 team was solid defensively (finished #31 on kenpom and probably would have finished higher had Ryan not gotten hurt). I think Seth's experience in the system helped him overcome his physicial deficiencies. I'd guess that Quinn's experience would make him more effective than a freshman option.

    I would trust experienced talent over inexperienced talent given similar talent levels, which is why I think Quinn will start over any freshman.
    Good grief. When is an older player with a lower ceiling a lesser option than a freshman with more ability/size? This isn't specific to Quinn, but just a question. How often do you have to see a player get beaten by his opposition before it becomes a good idea to start the new guy that has more physical tools?

    I would also add that Rasheed's spot isn't so safe, if he is crazy enough to not work his butt off this off-season. It is nuts to me to hear of a guy with that kind of potential just giving up a Summer that could have been used to improve. Perhaps there was something going on, but it was just weird seeing a good part of a season go by with him just trying to get back into form, with no reason given other than not being in shape. He is too good for that.
    Last edited by Gthoma2a; 04-01-2014 at 11:24 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by wk2109 View Post
    I agree that defense would be the main reason Quinn-Tyus-Rasheed wouldn't work, but would starting 2 freshmen on the perimeter definitely be a better option? Seth wasn't known as a good defender because he wasn't laterally quick, but the 2012-2013 team was solid defensively (finished #31 on kenpom and probably would have finished higher had Ryan not gotten hurt). I think Seth's experience in the system helped him overcome his physicial deficiencies. I'd guess that Quinn's experience would make him more effective than a freshman option.

    I would trust experienced talent over inexperienced talent given similar talent levels, which is why I think Quinn will start over any freshman.
    I think this will be the primary debate going into next season. Do we play small but experienced with junior Rasheed and senior Quinn or do we play bigger and (theoretically) stronger defensively with Quinn coming off the bench and Justise/Matt joining Rasheed and Tyus (assuming Tyus really is going to start as apparently indicated by Coach K in the presser)? The more outside the box possibilities would be Semi or Matt grabbing time at the third perimeter/forward spot. Interestingly enough, it seems as if this has been the primary debate going into every season since 2010. We wondered if would be Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth or Kyrie, Nolan and Andre OR if we'd go Miles (or Ryan), Mason, Kyle, Nolan, and Kyrie. The next season, we wondered if we would go with three guards in Austin, Seth, and Andre or if a freshman Quinn or a sophomore Tyler would claim a starting spot. Then, last season, we had thought that Alex Murphy would get the start (in fact, he did in the first exhibition game), but then freshman Rasheed came out and claimed the third perimeter spot. This past season, we thought the lineup was pretty settled except for who would play center. That was up in the air a little bit, but what surprised us was the third perimeter spot next to Rodney and a point guard wasn't Rasheed's as we originally thought.

    In all of the past seasons except for the 2012-2013 season, I'm not sure it was ever abundantly clear which lineup was actually our best, with this year being the most obvious example of the lineup situation staying in flux. A lot of that was due to injury in previous seasons. My hope is that whoever it is that emerges as the third perimeter player grabs the spot and owns it, leaving no question as to who should be playing the most minutes. I also hope that the other guys all are able to contribute off the bench. Granted, this doesn't have to happen right off the bat (Zoubek in 2010 staked his claim in mid February). And it doesn't mean that Coach K isn't capable of making dramatic changes at the last minute in the event of unforeseen circumstances (Boozer going down at the end of the ACC regular season in 2001). However, I do hope that roles are more clearly defined next year than they were at the end of this season.

  20. #20
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Gthoma2a View Post
    I would also add that Rasheed's spot isn't so safe, if he is crazy enough to not work his butt off this off-season. It is nuts to me to hear of a guy with that kind of potential just giving up a Summer that could have been used to improve. Perhaps there was something going on, but it was just weird seeing a good part of a season go by with him just trying to get back into form, with no reason given other than not being in shape. He is too good for that.
    So where did you hear such things? Links?

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