Quinn Cook

[Channing]

Not sure where to post this, so I'll just start a new thread and allow it to merge if necessary.

QC has gotten a lot of (much deserved) negative attention over the last third of the season. However, I thought he looked terrific in the UVA game. He is never going to be a lock down defender, but he made smart plays on offense, took good 3 pt shots (that happened to go in), and overall was a very good floor general. IF we can get more of that, I hope he starts to see an increase in his minutes back to early season levels. He brings so much more to our offense as a true PG than our other options, where it seems we labor at times to be efficient.

[ChrisP]

Not sure where to post this, so I'll just start a new thread and allow it to merge if necessary.

QC has gotten a lot of (much deserved) negative attention over the last third of the season. However, I thought he looked terrific in the UVA game. He is never going to be a lock down defender, but he made smart plays on offense, took good 3 pt shots (that happened to go in), and overall was a very good floor general. IF we can get more of that, I hope he starts to see an increase in his minutes back to early season levels. He brings so much more to our offense as a true PG than our other options, where it seems we labor at times to be efficient.

Don't disagree with anything you've said here. I think we all really, REALLY want to see the "Good Quinn" out there on the court from now on. However, I would just add - and I really don't mean to hijack your thread here - that this Duke team pretty much needs everyone to play their best from here on out. That's a gross oversimplification, of course, but with most/all guys playing at a high level on both ends of the court, I'm not sure there are many teams that can beat us this year. Unfortunately, I don't know that we've seen that much this season (Michigan game, maybe?). For instance, I think UNCII was a great game offensively, but a terrible defensive game.

Anyway, I think I get your point (no pun intended) that Quinn running the point effectively and at a high level (cough, Battle for Atlantis last year, cough) would really help our team's chances in the post season.

[dukelion]

Anyway, I think I get your point (no pun intended) that Quinn running the point effectively and at a high level (cough, Battle for Atlantis last year, cough) would really help our team's chances in the post season.

Man I wish Quinn reverted to that player from early last year. He was so confident in his midrange game (floaters and pull ups) and now seems loathe to attempt any shot that's not a three.

Truly one of the more puzzling things that happened to a Duke players development for me in some time.

If (big if) he regained that confidence to probe the paint like he did in BFA last year I think we'd be a final four lock.

[The Gordog]

Not sure where to post this, so I'll just start a new thread and allow it to merge if necessary.

QC has gotten a lot of (much deserved) negative attention over the last third of the season. However, I thought he looked terrific in the UVA game. He is never going to be a lock down defender, but he made smart plays on offense, took good 3 pt shots (that happened to go in), and overall was a very good floor general. IF we can get more of that, I hope he starts to see an increase in his minutes back to early season levels. He brings so much more to our offense as a true PG than our other options, where it seems we labor at times to be efficient.

I agree. I also think that the issue with confidence in his ability to finish at the rim or with a floater is directly related to the ability of Amile to stay on the court without foul trouble. When Quinn has that option to dump off to in the lane he is 3X more effective because they cannot go hard for the block every time. When Josh (too small) or Marshall (bad hands) is manning the post it makes things harder for Quinn and his confidence declines. Being mercurial as he is it infects all aspects of his game. Amile not fouling leads directly to the good Quinn, IMHO.

[Matches]

I've been pretty critical of him but I thought he played pretty well all weekend. He didn't get a ton of burn against Clemson but he played a lot the last 2 games, and I thought he acquitted himself fine. He's never going to be a plus defender; we just have to live with that. What we need from him is good decisionmaking when he has the ball in his hands. He's the best passer on the team, and the best ballhandler - just needs to be smart with the ball and concentrate on setting up other guys before hunting his own shot.

[CBecker]

I agree I think it's time for Quinn to return to the starting lineup and get good minutes. I liked the Thornton/Sheed back court because of the smothering defense they were playing, but the offense got really stagnant at times and Quinn at his best can help. I agree that he seems to only be shooting threes, those floaters and scoops he did so often last year aren't around anymore. Hopefully he builds off a decent game against UVA, and has a good tourney.

[Kfanarmy]

Sometimes I wonder if QC isn't hesitant to pass the ball without the "perfect" set up because he knows the ball is most likely going to be shot by that player, whether a good shot is available or not.

[Troublemaker]

4 games in a row of good play for Quinn now. I think he'll be seeing big minutes going forward.

Now we just have to sort out the Andre situation. Hopefully Andre was sick, gets healthy, gets more playing time and bangs home some clutch threes in the NCAAs.

[Chicken Little]

I've been pretty critical of him but I thought he played pretty well all weekend.

Me too. Thought he provided a nice lift all weekend. When he's on, he sees the court better than anyone on our team. If I remember correctly, right before halftime of the Clemson game (or was it State?), he came in, hit a three then threw a perfect alley oop to Parker or Hood. It seemed like it all happened in 15 seconds, and it was dazzling. I think the debate about his playing time still lingers though, when Sheed batters the lane and attacks defenses so aggressively, and Tyler can't stop making big plays that don't show up on the stat sheet. If anything, Quinn's recent improved play just makes me less worried when Thornton racks up fouls quickly. I think it's similar to the debate that rages about Andre's playing time. When they're on, they both make us so hard to defend, but K seems to be more comfortable giving minutes to the more stable, less wow-ing, Sheed/Tyler. I understand both perspectives and ultimately have a feeling K and company know what they're doing.

[WillJ]

This may attract some abuse, but I think we have to acknowledge that our guards are just not that good. Quinn is playing behind Thornton, for the most part, and, over the last five games (i.e. since WF), TT has 10 assists, 6 points, and 18 fouls. Though K obviously thinks he's our best choice, those are really amazingly bad numbers for a Duke starting point guard. Our off-guards haven't been much better. TT's a great kid, as are the others, but you just can't win consistently against good competition with that kind of play from your guards.

[Matches]

This may attract some abuse, but I think we have to acknowledge that our guards are just not that good. Quinn is playing behind Thornton, for the most part, and, over the last five games (i.e. since WF), TT has 10 assists, 6 points, and 18 fouls. Though K obviously thinks he's our best choice, those are really amazingly bad numbers for a Duke starting point guard. Our off-guards haven't been much better. TT's a great kid, as are the others, but you just can't win consistently against good competition with that kind of play from your guards.

At the risk of re-igniting the TT debate, he possibly saved the Clemson game with a last-possession strip, and he made quite a few plays over the weekend that I'd call "winning plays" that don't show up in the stat sheet. So just looking at his stats really doesn't tell the whole story of what he contributes while he's out there.

Also: he fouls a lot.

There's 80 minutes to go around between the two guard spots, though - plenty for QC, Sheed, and TT (even if Dre was to soak up 10 or so of them). It's not an either-or situation, IMO - all those guys do slightly different things well.

(By the way, did anyone catch on the raycom broadcast yesterday when they mistakenly referred to TT as "Andre Thornton"? How awesome would an amalgamation of TT and Dre be?)

[WillJ]

At the risk of re-igniting the TT debate, he possibly saved the Clemson game with a last-possession strip, and he made quite a few plays over the weekend that I'd call "winning plays" that don't show up in the stat sheet. So just looking at his stats really doesn't tell the whole story of what he contributes while he's out there.

Also: he fouls a lot.

There's 80 minutes to go around between the two guard spots, though - plenty for QC, Sheed, and TT (even if Dre was to soak up 10 or so of them). It's not an either-or situation, IMO - all those guys do slightly different things well.

(By the way, did anyone catch on the raycom broadcast yesterday when they mistakenly referred to TT as "Andre Thornton"? How awesome would an amalgamation of TT and Dre be?)

Those are good points - TT made a lot of good plays yesterday that didn't show up in the box score. K of course has his reasons for starting him, and I didn't mean to argue that he should play less. But...but...but...fouls>assists+points? It takes an astronomical amount of non-box-score stuff to make up for that. My read, as I noted, is that neither of our PGs are playing real well taking everything into consideration. I hope they prove me egregiously wrong in the tournament.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I've been pretty critical of him but I thought he played pretty well all weekend. He didn't get a ton of burn against Clemson but he played a lot the last 2 games, and I thought he acquitted himself fine. He's never going to be a plus defender; we just have to live with that. What we need from him is good decisionmaking when he has the ball in his hands. He's the best passer on the team, and the best ballhandler - just needs to be smart with the ball and concentrate on setting up other guys before hunting his own shot.

I don't know... I just think he may need to learn to play a defensive style that is within his ability. I continue to believe that he could back up a half step and have a better chance at keeping his man in front of him. He gets so close sometimes that his man is able to get around him too easily and then he is essentially out of the play and creating a difficult 2 on 1 type situation for our bigs inside. I'd love to see him make the adjustment that might allow him to stay in more plays defensively instead of trailing his man into the lane on penetrations as seems to happen frequently.

[CDu]

Since the Wake Forest loss, Cook has put up the following numbers:

22.8 mpg, 8.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1 spg, 1 topg (4.3:1 a/to), 52.6 fg%, 50.0 3pt%. He hasn't had a bad game in the bunch.

In my opinion, he should be playing 25-30 mpg in every remaining game. We can't have him getting just 12 minutes like he did in the Clemson game.

Cook is a HUGE part of our chances of tourney success. We need him playing at a high level.

But really, we need ALL of our guys playing at a high level from here on out. Sulaimon and Thornton can't throw up clunkers like they both did in the UVa game (combined 1-6, 2 pts, 2 assists, 8 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 9 fouls) for us to win against good teams. At least 2 of our 3-man guard rotation needs to be having a decent night.

[dukelifer]

Since the Wake Forest loss, Cook has put up the following numbers:

22.8 mpg, 8.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1 spg, 1 topg (4.3:1 a/to), 52.6 fg%, 50.0 3pt%. He hasn't had a bad game in the bunch.

In my opinion, he should be playing 25-30 mpg in every remaining game. We can't have him getting just 12 minutes like he did in the Clemson game.

Cook is a HUGE part of our chances of tourney success. We need him playing at a high level.

But really, we need ALL of our guys playing at a high level from here on out. Sulaimon and Thornton can't throw up clunkers like they both did in the UVa game (combined 1-6, 2 pts, 2 assists, 8 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 9 fouls) for us to win against good teams. At least 2 of our 3-man guard rotation needs to be having a decent night.

I agree. Duke success will go as far as the guards take them. Too inconsistent for an elite team. But Quinn and Rasheed are both capable of big games and nights. If they can string a bunch together along with the consistent play of Hood and Parker- Duke is a very tough out- even with the mediocre defense.

[Newton_14]

Since the Wake Forest loss, Cook has put up the following numbers:

22.8 mpg, 8.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1 spg, 1 topg (4.3:1 a/to), 52.6 fg%, 50.0 3pt%. He hasn't had a bad game in the bunch.

In my opinion, he should be playing 25-30 mpg in every remaining game. We can't have him getting just 12 minutes like he did in the Clemson game.

Cook is a HUGE part of our chances of tourney success. We need him playing at a high level.

But really, we need ALL of our guys playing at a high level from here on out. Sulaimon and Thornton can't throw up clunkers like they both did in the UVa game (combined 1-6, 2 pts, 2 assists, 8 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 9 fouls) for us to win against good teams. At least 2 of our 3-man guard rotation needs to be having a decent night.

Totally agree here. (and WillJ there's a lot of truth in your post). I have said several times lately, and i will not back away from this stance, we need Quinn starting and playing about 25 mpg, and Andre needs to play 17 to 20mpg. I just feel we are a better team with that kind of rotation. Even when Quinn was getting around 28mpg and Andre 12 to 14 we were better. Before anyone shoots me, I am the biggest Thornton fan on the board. Love that kid and what he brings and will hate to see him go. I just think he is more effective playing 17-20mpg vs 28 to 32mpg, and I don't feel he plays bad if he plays heavier minutes. At all. It's just that it hurts our team scoring by keeping two dynamic scorers in Quinn and Andre on the bench.

We just have an odd team this year. Our best offensive units can't defend well, and our best defensive units can't score well. The problem though, is the fact that our best defensive units struggle to get stops too. With that we need to, in my opinion, the minutes distribution needs to lean more toward the better offensive units. Mix and match for sure but make sure the better offensive units have an edge in minutes played over the better defensive units.

We can play with, and beat any team in the country. Florida is the team that would likely be very difficult for us to beat, but outside of them, I am confident this Duke team, if playing at their highest level, would beat any of the other teams.

Just my opinion.

[devilwood]

Since the Wake Forest loss, Cook has put up the following numbers:

22.8 mpg, 8.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1 spg, 1 topg (4.3:1 a/to), 52.6 fg%, 50.0 3pt%. He hasn't had a bad game in the bunch.

In my opinion, he should be playing 25-30 mpg in every remaining game. We can't have him getting just 12 minutes like he did in the Clemson game.

Cook is a HUGE part of our chances of tourney success. We need him playing at a high level.

But really, we need ALL of our guys playing at a high level from here on out. Sulaimon and Thornton can't throw up clunkers like they both did in the UVa game (combined 1-6, 2 pts, 2 assists, 8 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 9 fouls) for us to win against good teams. At least 2 of our 3-man guard rotation needs to be having a decent night.

We were playing our best defense of the game in the first part of the second half until TT got his fourth foul. He was in there because the lineup with him in it is very strong.

This is one of the many decisions that our hall of fame coach made. There is a tendency to criticize him and his strategies, but don't kid yourselves. Watching him coach is like eating prime steak and drinking champagne every night of the week. He is the best. He will not always be here, and we are very lucky to have him.

[LobstersPinchPinch]

This may attract some abuse, but I think we have to acknowledge that our guards are just not that good. Quinn is playing behind Thornton, for the most part, and, over the last five games (i.e. since WF), TT has 10 assists, 6 points, and 18 fouls. Though K obviously thinks he's our best choice, those are really amazingly bad numbers for a Duke starting point guard. Our off-guards haven't been much better. TT's a great kid, as are the others, but you just can't win consistently against good competition with that kind of play from your guards.

I'd slightly modify that to say our guards aren't well-rounded. Each can do some good things, but don't think I see any that can do most/all of what we need our guards to do. I continue to believe that our lack of superior point guard play the past 3 years is the biggest reason we've been less successful than we could have been. Case in point was the team's performance (especially Mason's) with Kyrie at point vs. Nolan. Kyrie's penetration collapsed defenders, and his passing, more often than not, resulted in an open 3 or uncontested layup/dunk from our bigs.

Not having a pure, pass-first point guard detracts significantly from our O potential. If Tyus is as good as advertised next year...

[DukeAlumBS]

4 games in a row of good play for Quinn now. I think he'll be seeing big minutes going forward.

Now we just have to sort out the Andre situation. Hopefully Andre was sick, gets healthy, gets more playing time and bangs home some clutch threes in the NCAAs.

He needs to play more. If things are not developing in the game. So be it. Hit his 3 but only 1 out of 2 yesterday. He can be a big help for that matter. Andre was 3 out of 5 yesterday!
I think a lot of pressure is aimed to have Parker and Hood get involved. Shot selection a lot of times has not been good for the 2. As with Soulamon. There is no reason to throw up a bad shot. Cook is great at keeping the game flowing. I think he needs to add his shot a bit more in a lot of situations.
Andre is not sick. He needs the time to shoot. That he has been doing! In tight games this opens up a bit more. Has in the past!

Nice day
Jimmy

[Des Esseintes]

Since the Wake Forest loss, Cook has put up the following numbers:

22.8 mpg, 8.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1 spg, 1 topg (4.3:1 a/to), 52.6 fg%, 50.0 3pt%. He hasn't had a bad game in the bunch.

In my opinion, he should be playing 25-30 mpg in every remaining game. We can't have him getting just 12 minutes like he did in the Clemson game.

Cook is a HUGE part of our chances of tourney success. We need him playing at a high level.

But really, we need ALL of our guys playing at a high level from here on out. Sulaimon and Thornton can't throw up clunkers like they both did in the UVa game (combined 1-6, 2 pts, 2 assists, 8 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 9 fouls) for us to win against good teams. At least 2 of our 3-man guard rotation needs to be having a decent night.

I pretty much agree. The only amendment I would offer is that we'd be fine if two guys stepped forward and *stayed* stepped forward. Cook, Sulaimon, Thornton, Dawkins have all had five-game stretches of fantastic play only to become complete ciphers for other five-game stretches. I don't think we need everybody playing their best ball if we have a couple of guys we know should be the starters. The guys who "should" be starting seems to change week to week.