Duke porn star and student loans

[BattierD12]

My understanding is that the amount paid annually at Duke, and several other institutions, is only paid by families that can afford to pay that much. Family income is used to determine just how much is paid with many paying nothing.

Yup, the financial aid department considers each family's ability to pay the tuition amount and appropriates the necessary amount of money for the student to feel they can attend the school without burdening their parents. I speak from first hand experience as back in Spring 2007 I was down to UF (my state school) and Duke for my college decision, and it all depended on the financial aid Duke would offer. My parent's combined income was around the 40K-60K/year threshold, and Duke ended up awarding me $30K of the $50K total costs through grants and work-study, which was HUGE for my parents. It's why I always donate to the Financial Aid funds every year with the annual fund requests. I can't imagine my life without Duke.

[Newton_14]

Yup, the financial aid department considers each family's ability to pay the tuition amount and appropriates the necessary amount of money for the student to feel they can attend the school without burdening their parents. I speak from first hand experience as back in Spring 2007 I was down to UF (my state school) and Duke for my college decision, and it all depended on the financial aid Duke would offer. My parent's combined income was around the 40K-60K/year threshold, and Duke ended up awarding me $30K of the $50K total costs through grants and work-study, which was HUGE for my parents. It's why I always donate to the Financial Aid funds every year with the annual fund requests. I can't imagine my life without Duke.

So forgive me for not understanding this better, but does this mean that you did not have to repay the $30K in grants Duke provided? I am understanding that to be yes but wanted to confirm one way or the other. Thanks

[Dukeface88]

So forgive me for not understanding this better, but does this mean that you did not have to repay the $30K in grants Duke provided? I am understanding that to be yes but wanted to confirm one way or the other. Thanks

Grants don't have to be repaid - that's what makes them grants rather than loans.

My Duke financial aid story is basically the same as D12's (down to the alternative being UF) except for occurring in 2005 instead of 2007.

[Newton_14]

Grants don't have to be repaid - that's what makes them grants rather than loans.

My Duke financial aid story is basically the same as D12's (down to the alternative being UF) except for occurring in 2005 instead of 2007.

Thanks. Seemed obvious but then not.

[duke09hms]

Starting in 2008, Duke's financial aid policy became more generous where if a family's annual income was 60k or less, everything was entirely free. All grants/scholarship, room/board included, no loans, no expected family contribution. Had to do work-study though.

Coming from a middle class family, I paid ~15k for my Duke degree.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Ruth Marcus has a column in the Post today that is worth a read if this topic is of any interest.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinions...d06_story.html

[weezie]

From the article: Her father is an Army physician (yes, I know that doesn't pay as much as civilian docs) and she went to an $11K Jesuit prep school? Wonder if he's reserve or nearing retirement/Army pension and a possible entry into stateside medical practice. Plenty of military meds do this with a comfortable retirement cushion from their 20 +/- years in service.
She's got a married older brother and one other sibling, age unknown. Sure there are plenty of ways to explain and analyze her "hardships" but something isn't quite adding up.

And my opinion is that she's flat out lying about her father not being "heartbroken" when he found out about her part-time job activities. Utter self-serving horse poop.
She's def starting to get on some nerves. Sure hope she kept good records for the IRS.

[CDu]

Starting in 2008, Duke's financial aid policy became more generous where if a family's annual income was 60k or less, everything was entirely free. All grants/scholarship, room/board included, no loans, no expected family contribution. Had to do work-study though.

Coming from a middle class family, I paid ~15k for my Duke degree.

Uggh! I was about a decade off. Would have been nice to not have had any loans. As is, Duke paid about 70% of my education for me, so I only have about $16K in loans to pay. But free sure would have been nice!

[bedeviled]

something isn't quite adding up

That was my sentiment as well, and I was ready to put the topic to bed (lol). But, I would like to add one update for those who have not seen recent developments: Her real name is now being used by the media.

Other developments include:
She was bullied and threatened. The male student was bullied. A porn company published the male student's weekly porn expenses for their site. The company published his site/sexual preference (which appears to have something to do with sexual abusiveness...which they deduced because it was the site of her first jobs. Ugh). The company is using shame tactics to offer the male student a video appearance. Pictures have been posted of her family members and their house and of the male student. And so on, and so on.

All in all, no es bueno. The silver lining: even after the celebutante notoriety wears off, there should be a decently lucrative book deal, no? She might have a voice for her platform after all, and everything will have worked out exactly to plan.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Wow, one Duke student says she does porn to finance our education and another has so much money he can waste some it on porn.

As to her father's reaction, lets say your daughter made a decision that does devastate you but one that eventually you might all get over.
Say elopes with some guy you dislike intensely. So you miss her wedding and now have her married to someone you do not like. What do you tell her?
If you are too strong you could permanently damage the relationship with her. You know (hope) in the long run either he will prove you wrong or the marriage will end. In either case you don't want to damage the relationship with your own daughter. I think he was devastated but did not express it to her.

She needs to consider a career in marketing. All this publicity most her the sales of her videos.

SoCal

[cspan37421]

As is, Duke paid about 70% of my education for me,

could one make a case that those among your fellow students who paid full freight paid 70% of your education? It's not like the endowment is being drawn down for financial aid.

[cspan37421]

A porn company published the male student's weekly porn expenses for their site. The company published his site/sexual preference (which appears to have something to do with sexual abusiveness...which they deduced because it was the site of her first jobs. Ugh). The company is using shame tactics to offer the male student a video appearance.

Wow - I wonder if that violates their stated policy? Seems like the male student could have a huge lawsuit on his hands if they tout a policy of confidentiality to their customers, etc.

[duke79]

could one make a case that those among your fellow students who paid full freight paid 70% of your education? It's not like the endowment is being drawn down for financial aid.

Not sure if you're being facetious here, but Duke does use at least part of their annual "draw" from the endowment (now roughly around $6 billion) specifically for financial aid to both undergrads and grad students. I looked at the latest 2012/2013 annual report for the numbers. I was surprised at how little tuition (what the university calls "net tuition" - after accounting for the amount of financial aid that it gives out each year) contributes to the overall annual operating budget of the university (not including the Duke Hospital which is run as a separate entity apart from the university). According to the annual report, net tuition accounts for about 17% of the annual operating budget. This is almost exactly the same amount that is currently pulled out of the endowment to support the university operations. Duke actually withdraws a larger percentage out of the endowment for financial aid (5.75%) than for other operating needs (4.8%).

There is no doubt that Duke, like almost every other college and university in this country, uses a "Robin Hood" approach to how they price tuition, room and board. They charge the affluent and rich (who can presumably afford to pay more) more and use those extra funds to offset the financial aid provided to other students. If no one received any type of financial aid, I'm guessing Duke could charge maybe $35,000 to $40,000 for tuition, room and board and raise the same amount of tuition money that they do now.

[orrnot]

could one make a case that those among your fellow students who paid full freight paid 70% of your education? It's not like the endowment is being drawn down for financial aid.

My understanding is that those who pay the full tuition still don't pay the "full freight," that the cost of a Duke education goes well beyond the total un-discounted tuition and fees. So, "full freight" really just means lesser discount.

My comment is based on an unsupported assertion, I realize, and while I think I could find examples of its being asserted it would be more challenging to fully support the assertion. I think it's a commonplace at most colleges and universities in this country. I believe it, but I suspect the accounting can be dissected and disputed, perhaps argued endlessly. I'd be interested in the comments of those more knowledgeable.

[Bluedog]

My understanding is that those who pay the full tuition still don't pay the "full freight," that the cost of a Duke education goes well beyond the total un-discounted tuition and fees. So, "full freight" really just means lesser discount.

My comment is based on an unsupported assertion, I realize, and while I think I could find examples of its being asserted it would be more challenging to fully support the assertion. I think it's a commonplace at most colleges and universities in this country. I believe it, but I suspect the accounting can be dissected and disputed, perhaps argued endlessly. I'd be interested in the comments of those more knowledgeable.

We had a thread about this already with NPR releasing a piece about Duke:
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.c...education-Duke
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/...lly-a-discount

From that link, Duke claims it spends $90k per student, but 24% of that is for financial aid. So, for a student paying "sticker price," Duke claims that ~$68k is spent on that student (excluding the amount taken for financial aid). As you said, some people question the accounting/claim, but Duke is certainly not alone in this regard and its tuition is in line with peer institutions.

[Jim3k]

Coming back to school seems like a good idea. Dancing at a strip club...not so much. Still...her choice.

Anyway--New York News with pics and her real name. Yeah, the pics are safe to view.

[SmartDevil]

She will most likely be a rather distant memory, a minor footnote, in the mind of the public and her industry in something like 15-24 more months. She'll likely have made less money during that time than she had anticipated, and even less will have gone for "tuition" than she thought would. Her offers for "roles" by that time will be fewer and less well-compensated.

Whatever internal baggage she had before commencing her adventures (and contributing to her decision to pursue them) will almost surely be significantly larger and more burdensome.

I've known women who have fallen into this trap before and, as a consequence, I've learned quite a bit about it from them and from other sources. I realize I'm generalizing here but there's often a sound basis for generalizations. Still, I acknowledge she might possibly be an exception of some sort. Maybe she'll become a feminist leader successfully advocating female empowerment. And leading a happy life. I hope so but don't think it is a good bet.

I hope she can hang on and get her degree whether at Duke or elsewhere. And I hope the Duke community will be supportive of her as a person.

[SoCalDukeFan]

She will most likely be a rather distant memory, a minor footnote, in the mind of the public and her industry in something like 15-24 more months. She'll likely have made less money during that time than she had anticipated, and even less will have gone for "tuition" than she thought would. Her offers for "roles" by that time will be fewer and less well-compensated.

Whatever internal baggage she had before commencing her adventures (and contributing to her decision to pursue them) will almost surely be significantly larger and more burdensome.

I've known women who have fallen into this trap before and, as a consequence, I've learned quite a bit about it from them and from other sources. I realize I'm generalizing here but there's often a sound basis for generalizations. Still, I acknowledge she might possibly be an exception of some sort. Maybe she'll become a feminist leader successfully advocating female empowerment. And leading a happy life. I hope so but don't think it is a good bet.

I hope she can hang on and get her degree whether at Duke or elsewhere. And I hope the Duke community will be supportive of her as a person.

I happened to see her CNN interview (fully clothed). She seems like a bright young woman. As an adult for me she can do about anything she wants with other consenting adults and in front of adult audiences or on media for adults. I really do not care.

However I was initially pissed off that she blamed the Duke male who outed her for ruining her life. While he should have kept his promise of secrecy, she put herself into this situation when she chose to make porn videos.

Now she is using Duke for publicity and sales. While it might be good marketing, it is demeaning in some respect to Duke and the Duke community. She wants her family left out, why not leave Duke out. Someone showed me a video interview where she, also fully clothed, promises some kind of personal sex toy for each member of the bball team if we win the NC. She also chickened out in asking Jabari for a picture with him. I am glad she chickened out, that would have been an Internet sensation.

While I hope no one at Duke intentionally physically harms her, I also see no reason to support her as long as she is using Duke to further her "career."

SoCal

[SmartDevil]

SoCal,
I don't disagree with anything you wrote.
I think she's an opportunist. And I think she is delighting in the spotlight (for now). She's hurting Duke. And in the long run hurting herself.
But she's also a victim. LIkely victimized emotionally and perhaps physically in the past. And certainly being victimized and exploited by others now (the producers, etc.) even if she invited and freely consented to it.

[Olympic Fan]

I think "Belle Knox" is a marketing genius. She's parlayed the story over the "Poor coed working her way through college" into national publicity. She's not only appeared on CNN, but she was a recent guest of The View -- No, I don't watch the View, but I do watch The Soup, which featured a clip from Belle's visit to The View ... Belle says she's been watching porn since she was 12 years old and Barbara Walters asked, "did you watch it with your parents?" That got a canned laugh from the fake Soup audience.

I suspect the exposure has turned Knox from a starlet working for scale into a porn headliner -- with a skyrocketing salary. She has a line of adult toys coming out in the next few months. She was marketing them in an interview talking about how if Duke's basketball team won it all, she would give all he players an item from her new porn line: "A pocket p***y."

http://www.tmz.com/2014/03/19/belle-...rn-star-video/

Would that have been an NCAA violation?

I suspect that SoCalDukeFan is right that her career will be brief ... but I also suspect that she will make a LOT of money before her career burns out.