MBB: Duke vs Virginia Tech Pre-Game & In-Game Thread (Tues/1900 EST/ESPNU)

[Clay Feet POF]

P&R? Pass and rebound? Pound and rebound? Puke and Retch? I dunno? Little help? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

A Winner!

[roywhite]

And I liked it when Marshall took the ball to the basket for an attempted dunk, but was fouled. He even made one of the free throws. Amile and MPIII need to make the opponent play them honest but not with a foul line jumper. All though they have as much chance of hitting that shot as Josh does on his mid-range jumpers. Bless his soul. GoDuke!

Actually, he missed them both, my "twin-city" friend. His difficulty from the free throw line (4-15 on the year) is an obstacle to late game minutes, I'm afraid.

I will say that Marshall has been a great help to the team and exceeded my expectations; I didn't see how he could contribute, but I'm happy to have been wrong. He provides size and a physical presence down low, with an ability to block shots, alter shots, grab rebounds, and get some decisive dunks.

[TruBlu]

P&R? Pass and rebound? Pound and rebound? Puke and Retch? I dunno? Little help? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

Actually, he probably thought he was on the YMM, Beer thread in Off-Topic and meant to type PBR.

[Clay Feet POF]

Actually, he probably thought he was on the YMM, Beer thread in Off-Topic and meant to type PBR.

Codebreaker...Codebreaker

[gofurman]

Never over-look an opponent. VT is not great but they have played their last 4 games far better than the previous games. While still 1-3 (last 4 games) those 3 losses were by about 5 pts each to teams like UVA and at Pitt. And they beat someone -maybe UM? They are playing better. Also, its a letdown game for duke no matter how hard you try to motivate.. UNC.. Syracuse.. VT? Kill em early and step on the throat. kill em !

Then rest up for wake and UNC. !

[Troublemaker]

I think an early line change might be a nice antidote for any emotional letdown. It gets a few guys in who haven't been playing much, and they can come in and just go all-out for a few minutes. Energy is contagious, and if we do come out flat, the bench may be able to help us get cranked up.

Great point, Matches. If line changes are a tool in Coach K's toolbag, tomorrow seems like a perfect time to pull it out.

[Reilly]

Play hard. Win.

[ElSid]

can not play 4 on 5 and win big games

Ehhhhh give the young giant another couple games of nearly 20 minutes and I think you'll be surprised. His ability to finish around the rim is already quite a bit better than his brothers' in their early days. And he only stagnated at the top of the key once or twice. He got comfortable and made a couple great plays from that position, including the "drive and dish" that got Hood a wide open corner three. I actually feel confident with the ball in his hands. He's strong with it and doesn't do stupid stuff. He only had to learn from a couple instances before realizing he was wide open and could do something about it. Extremely pleasantly surprised and happy to eat crow from when, at the very beginning of the season, I didn't see a glimmer of hope this year.

[gep]

Ehhhhh give the young giant another couple games of nearly 20 minutes and I think you'll be surprised. His ability to finish around the rim is already quite a bit better than his brothers' in their early days. And he only stagnated at the top of the key once or twice. He got comfortable and made a couple great plays from that position, including the "drive and dish" that got Hood a wide open corner three. I actually feel confident with the ball in his hands. He's strong with it and doesn't do stupid stuff. He only had to learn from a couple instances before realizing he was wide open and could do something about it. Extremely pleasantly surprised and happy to eat crow from when, at the very beginning of the season, I didn't see a glimmer of hope this year.

I liked seeing him take that forceful drive to the basket for a dunk. That one play should be reinforced. He can do it!!!

[lotusland]

P&R? Pass and rebound? Pound and rebound? Puke and Retch? I dunno? Little help? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

I was thinking put back and rebound but the order of operations is inverted.

[jv001]

Actually, he missed them both, my "twin-city" friend. His difficulty from the free throw line (4-15 on the year) is an obstacle to late game minutes, I'm afraid.

I will say that Marshall has been a great help to the team and exceeded my expectations; I didn't see how he could contribute, but I'm happy to have been wrong. He provides size and a physical presence down low, with an ability to block shots, alter shots, grab rebounds, and get some decisive dunks.

I told you roy that my mind ain't what it used to be Marshall gives us a physical presence that we were lacking earlier in the year. Great to have him now at crunch time. As for his free throw woes, he has decent shooting form. I guess it's a confidence thing. Have a great day. GoDuke!

[CameronBlue]

P&R? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

Boeheim's specialty...and that's all we'll say about THAT.

[Troublemaker]

The front page linked the N&O article about Marshall. Here is the Herald-Sun article in addition.

Some selected quotes from both:

“He’s huge going forward for us,” Krzyzewski said Monday.

“He’s a different player than his brothers,” Krzyzewski said of Marshall. “He’s a center. Mason and Miles played both positions, but Marshall wants to be a center, a protector of the basket. He wants to be a center, and that’s what he is. He’s athletic, though – all three Plumlee brothers are excellent athletes. It’s taken Marshall some time to get back to that athleticism.


“We feel that he’s running and being the athlete he was before, about 17 months ago, right before he was injured at the start of last season. He is a good player, and he’s going to be a really good player."

Plumlee can play an integral role off the bench as Duke plays its last three ACC regular-season games before gearing up for the postseason.


He said his mental approach has helped him physically.


“A little patience,” Plumlee said. “It’s taken me a little too long to figure out how to show a little patience. But it’s paying off and the coaching staff has been great working with me and helping develop me. And my teammates have been really supportive. I feel more comfortable in my role now than ever, and my teammates are just incredibly supportive. If we each play our part and really play together, we can be a really tough team.”

[MCFinARL]

It would be all too human for our players, especially the young guys, to kind of take a deep breath and relax after a rough stretch of games, as much as the coaches will be on them not to do so. I hope Duke comes out like a fireball in this game, but I could also envision a bad 1st half happening. That's as far as it would go, though. Some yelling at halftime, and Duke should blow them out in the 2nd half under that scenario.

What I'll be looking for: fighting the urge to relax and therefore dominating from the tip, beating VaTech on the boards, and shooting well from outside.

Cook and Dawkins presumably would fill that role.

I think an early line change might be a nice antidote for any emotional letdown. It gets a few guys in who haven't been playing much, and they can come in and just go all-out for a few minutes. Energy is contagious, and if we do come out flat, the bench may be able to help us get cranked up.

Also - I think there's some value in getting Hairston and Jones a few minutes just to help keep them fresh. This may be our last chance to do so for some time. I'd hate to see a scenario where, for example, MP3 gets hurt during the NCAAT and we need minutes from Hairston, but he hasn't gotten any in a month.

Yes--this does have some potential to be an emotional letdown game, so why not give some guys who are probably pretty hungry for playing time right now--Jones, Hairston, Dawkins (who has been playing a lot more than the other two, but less than he was a few weeks ago), maybe even Semi--an opportunity to get in some additional time? They are likely to be pretty up for the chance. And as you point out, Matches, Hairston and Jones are players we may need down the road in case of injury (God forbid) or foul trouble.

And for Hairston, this may be his last chance to see any extended minutes in Cameron. He has been such a devoted, hardworking spirit leader for Duke over his four years, and game conditions may dictate that he not get much more than a token appearance on senior night.

[jv001]

Yes--this does have some potential to be an emotional letdown game, so why not give some guys who are probably pretty hungry for playing time right now--Jones, Hairston, Dawkins (who has been playing a lot more than the other two, but less than he was a few weeks ago), maybe even Semi--an opportunity to get in some additional time? They are likely to be pretty up for the chance. And as you point out, Matches, Hairston and Jones are players we may need down the road in case of injury (God forbid) or foul trouble.

And for Hairston, this may be his last chance to see any extended minutes in Cameron. He has been such a devoted, hardworking spirit leader for Duke over his four years, and game conditions may dictate that he not get much more than a token appearance on senior night.

I can't praise Josh enough for his time at Duke. Especially this year as he's seen his playing time reduced to garbage minutes and he has still been a good leader by showing his support for his teammates. What a great young man. GoDuke!

[Saratoga2]

I can't praise Josh enough for his time at Duke. Especially this year as he's seen his playing time reduced to garbage minutes and he has still been a good leader by showing his support for his teammates. What a great young man. GoDuke!

I agree that Josh has been a model player at Duke and deserves our thanks for his efforts. That said, clearly Marshall is needed due to his size. I also think it would be a mistake not to use Semi in some of the upcoming games. Why? He is about the same size as Josh but is more athletic by far. He also has shown a shot from the foul line and from outside. I realize it is a small sample size, but he could be a big part of our future and I hate to see him in someone else's uniform in the coming years.

[CDu]

I can't praise Josh enough for his time at Duke. Especially this year as he's seen his playing time reduced to garbage minutes and he has still been a good leader by showing his support for his teammates. What a great young man. GoDuke!

A part of me feels bad for Hairston. He got caught behind Kelly and the Plumlees early in his career. Then, in his senior year, he was overtaken by Jefferson and now the last of the Plumlees. I'm not sure quite what happened to him as he went from a top-30 recruit with tons of athleticism to a guy who just couldn't find his way onto the floor consistently.

That being said, I do hope he gets the start in the UNC game. He's been a great teammate and has really seemed to love his time at Duke (based on his interactions with the crowd over his four years). He deserves to get to hear the roar of the crowd during his final home game.

[MCFinARL]

A part of me feels bad for Hairston. He got caught behind Kelly and the Plumlees early in his career. Then, in his senior year, he was overtaken by Jefferson and now the last of the Plumlees. I'm not sure quite what happened to him as he went from a top-30 recruit with tons of athleticism to a guy who just couldn't find his way onto the floor consistently.

That being said, I do hope he gets the start in the UNC game. He's been a great teammate and has really seemed to love his time at Duke (based on his interactions with the crowd over his four years). He deserves to get to hear the roar of the crowd during his final home game.

Me too. Coach K doesn't always start seniors on their senior night--but my fingers are crossed. I'd like to see Josh, Tyler and Andre all starting, at least for a minute or two, and Todd getting in the game at least briefly at some point.

Re what happened, is it possible Josh's skill set and size matched up better in high school than in college, where he often seems undersized compared to the people he is matched up against? (I realize that isn't a complete explanation, just a thought.) It hasn't helped that he worked hard to make himself really good at a skill--taking charges--that has been devalued by rule changes in his senior year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Me too. Coach K doesn't always start seniors on their senior night--but my fingers are crossed. I'd like to see Josh, Tyler and Andre all starting, at least for a minute or two, and Todd getting in the game at least briefly at some point.

Re what happened, is it possible Josh's skill set and size matched up better in high school than in college, where he often seems undersized compared to the people he is matched up against? (I realize that isn't a complete explanation, just a thought.) It hasn't helped that he worked hard to make himself really good at a skill--taking charges--that has been devalued by rule changes in his senior year.

Josh is an interesting player, and a player who may have been overvalued in high school. He is a strong dude - between his ability to box out and his ability to stand up to charges, his body is clearly college ready.

Unfortunately for Josh, his size is not good for college. He can only play the 4 and the 5, and his jump shot is so suspect to play the 4 effectively. He is listed at 6'8", but he is more like 6'7" (and maybe even 6'6"). Furthermore, Josh doesn't have a great wingspan nor does he have great hops. Between his size, his wingspan, and his hops, this makes Hairston incredibly undersized to play the post. His gluteus maximus is great for boxing out, and he clearly understands positioning, but this skill set doesn't really work when rebounding is the team's weakness (which it was in the beginning of the year).

If Josh had a reliable jump shot, I think his evolution as a Duke basketball player would have been different.

I too would like to see him play a few minutes tonight, but his value to the team during games isn't as impactful as it was when Amile and MP3 weren't ready (and both these players are ready now).

[CDu]

Re what happened, is it possible Josh's skill set and size matched up better in high school than in college, where he often seems undersized compared to the people he is matched up against? (I realize that isn't a complete explanation, just a thought.) It hasn't helped that he worked hard to make himself really good at a skill--taking charges--that has been devalued by rule changes in his senior year.

I think that his size is a big part of it. His height allowed him to be effect at the high school level, but not at the college level. And somewhere along the way, he got less quick and "springy" too (probably a result of gaining weight to try to bang at the college level). The combination of being undersized height-wise and no longer able to offset it with athleticism/skill became a problem for him.

I will say that the one aspect of the game that I liked least in Hairston's game was his constant effort to try to draw a charge. I'm actually quite happy with the rules change this year because I HATED the fact that defenders were getting rewarded for jumping in at the last second and undercutting an offensive player after he'd committed to the takeoff rather than trying to play actual defense. I think the charge is a legitimate call that needs to exist in the game (you can't just barrel over a player who has established his defensive position), but it was getting called WAY too frequently and incorrectly. Hairston is/was sort of the poster-child for the rule change being needed.

I think Hairston's proficiency for drawing charges had been a bit overstated. Yes, he drew lots of charges. But that is simply because he tries to draw a charge at virtually every possible opportunity. He got tons of blocking fouls as a result of this habit. As an example, it's not impressive to score 25 points if it takes 45 attempts to get those points. And as you note, the rules change has highlighted this, as Hairston is now drawing even fewer charges relative to blocking fouls.

I wonder what might have happened for Hairston if he'd stayed at about 210 instead of bulking up to 230+. Could he have maintained his springiness and been able to compensate for the lack of height with athleticism? It's just unfortunate. At least he's gotten to be on some very good teams, and participate in one of the best atmospheres in college basketball, and will presumably wind up with a very nice degree for his efforts. But I can't help but wonder what might have been.