Duke football

[6th Man]

I went to the game yesterday full of hope for a great start to the season. We take the opening kickoff and proceed to sling the ball down the field for a quick TD. Very creative pass plays all the way down the field. There is a decent crowd in Wallace Wade and the fans are actually into it. In front of me sits one of Duke's greats....Clarkston Hines. I'm thinking to myself, wow everything seems like it is going to workout today. Even by halftime we still have the lead! 14-11. I think partly because the fans in attendance were giving Duke a lift. Well something different happened in the second half. Some fans actually left at halftime. Duke comes out and gets scored on and more fans leave. It was like the place became dead. Well then the players were not the same bunch as the first half. They were becoming dejected and you could see it in their face. If you were at the game, the final score was not quite a true indicator. Duke goes for it on 4th down several times in their own territory setting up perfect field position for UCONN. Duke then has to pass the ball to try and score quickly and ends up throwing picks as UCONN knows what is going on and sets up their D to defend the pass. I think Duke sort of quit as well and I think it has to do with the fans quitting on them. I don't know how we as fans expect to leave, quit, and not attend games, not cheer and somehow magically wait for Duke football to get better. When the fans were there and cheering we were up 14-11 at halftime. The fans go south and we go south. Was very easy to see.

As far as fans writing about going to another division in football or leaving the ACC, that's just crazy. We would see the real death of Duke sports then. What happens to all the other not so high profile sports? They need the ACC. And Duke basketball, as great as it is, needs the ACC. We would be extremely arrogant to think we can go our own way and still remian at the high level we have maintained at basketball. We didn't exactly tear up the ACC last year. Ask Coach K if the ACC schedule doesn't make Duke a better team.

In my own opinion Duke football needs some love from the fans. This won't be the magic cure, but it sure will help! Besides, a true fan should never give up on his or her team!

[BigDuke6]

I did not leave at half time, but I did leave at the start of the fourth quarter. Do you know why? Because I see the same team on the field that I have seen for the past 15 years. They make the same mistakes, miscues, crazy play calling, and poor tackling. At half time we were in the lead but it was only a matter of time before we gave it up. We were making those mistakes in the first half but Uconn did not take advantage. When is it enough? I don't know where you sit in order to see the player's faces but I don't sit as close. I'm not at the game to look at their faces. I look at their performance and that says enough. I am a season ticket holder and I will attend the games. If they continue to play as bad as they yesterday. I will continue to leave when I feel like they have given up on the game as well. (Coaches and players.)

[Bluedawg]

I think it's inherently unfair to say that its the fan's fault the team lost. I know its easy to point blame, but to put the loss of a game on the fans is too much.

That said, I agree that a team feeds off of the energy of the fans and yes, they should stay until the end. If a team is expected to play till the last click then the fans should be expected to cheer till the last click. But also please keep in mind that the fans feed off the energy of the team. it is a two way street.

[6th Man]

I understand your points in response to my post. I am now 33 years old and have seen Duke beat UNC once sine I was 15. I know the blame can't be put on the fans entirely, but I really think it would make a difference if they got more support. Granted I do know it is a two-way street. I was frustrated with play calling too. We had a great first drive with great play calls and then all of a sudden the creativity was gone. It's very frustrating to say the least and really upsetting to see posts about leaving the ACC or playing Division II ball in football which would automatically kick us out of ACC. I just think that would bring everything down. Here's hoping to a great turnaround on the road next week! I wish somehow something great would happen to the football program! I really think the University needs it badly.

[dukie8]

I understand your points in response to my post. I am now 33 years old and have seen Duke beat UNC once sine I was 15. I know the blame can't be put on the fans entirely, but I really think it would make a difference if they got more support. Granted I do know it is a two-way street. I was frustrated with play calling too. We had a great first drive with great play calls and then all of a sudden the creativity was gone. It's very frustrating to say the least and really upsetting to see posts about leaving the ACC or playing Division II ball in football which would automatically kick us out of ACC. I just think that would bring everything down. Here's hoping to a great turnaround on the road next week! I wish somehow something great would happen to the football program! I really think the University needs it badly.

if you honestly think that fan support is the cause, or at least a major cause, of the team's woes, then how do you explain the fact that road teams actually win games from time-to-time?

[Duke1988]

I was at the game too yesterday. Three hour drive from the Norfolk, VA area. Had a good time except for the second half. I've watched a number of Duke football games over the past three seasons and there are questions that still remain in my mind after this game.

1. 2nd quarter, 4th and 1, we are a little past midfield...we line up to go for it, but instead, Aszak does a "pooch punt"...why? News flash: we were 0-12 last year...we are going to lose most of our games this year...we have a chance agains uconn...why not pull out the stops and go for it...sling it for crying out loud!!!! this play is indicative of many play calls that i've seen roof make that are simply too conservative, showing no willingness to take a risk.

2. what did roof tell the team at halftime? whatever it was, he should never, ever tell them that again. seems to me that uconn comes out and scores, and we totally lose heart...and that's just it...is there any heart? did we even put up a fight in the second half or not? or is it that our conditioning is not good enough to keep pace with teams for 60 minutes? i don't know, but i look at the coaching staff in either instance.

well i have other questions, but this post is already too long...

thoughts?

[jlear]

Positives:

• The hope for an improved on the field performance was uplifting
• The weather was outstanding
• The tailgating was terrific
• The funnel cake was great
• Fan turnout was better than I expected
• The feeling after the first series of the game was that what we had heard about improvement was true
• #7’s solo tackles were incredible
• First half defensive effort
• The crowd was loud enough in the first half yesterday that we could not hear what the band was playing
• The new caches polo’s look cool (I need to buy one)
• Traffic after the game was very manageable

Negatives:

• No measure of football performance that was acceptable for a college team

We need to outsource the management of football to someone who has a clue how to be successful because we don’t have a single clue.

One last thing, in my opinion, closing the other football thread because you don’t want to hear us vent about our disappointment was more juvenile than our complaining. We give our time, money and energy to Duke Football and all we want is some answers.

[TillyGalore]

2. what did roof tell the team at halftime? whatever it was, he should never, ever tell them that again. seems to me that uconn comes out and scores, and we totally lose heart...and that's just it...is there any heart? did we even put up a fight in the second half or not? or is it that our conditioning is not good enough to keep pace with teams for 60 minutes? i don't know, but i look at the coaching staff in either instance.

I completely agree with you. In the first half the team was riled up and motivated. As soon as the second half started their heart was gone. I too wondered what the heck Roof said.

Attending this game was a last minute decision (thanks for the invite Ozzie ) and like a lot of other people really believed we were going to walk away with a "W". I was very disappointed with the second half and with a four game road trip am wondering how this team will bounce back to win.

[JBDuke]

...
One last thing, in my opinion, closing the other football thread because you don’t want to hear us vent about our disappointment was more juvenile than our complaining. We give our time, money and energy to Duke Football and all we want is some answers.

Your opinion is noted.

With all of 5 posts under your belt, I would suggest that you refrain from commenting on moderation at this point, but if you are going to comment on it, please read the entire message posted by the mods to attempt to fully understand why they took the action they did.

I did not shut down the other thread to prevent venting. I shut it down because a few persistent posters were saying the same things about Duke football that they have said for YEARS. I encouraged folks that have something new to say - critical or not - to create new threads, but I will not tolerate (unless directed otherwise by the admins) the repeated bashing of Duke, Duke Athletics, and Duke coaches by people that appear to have an axe to grind or that have nothing new to offer.

[jlear]

Your opinion is noted.

With all of 5 posts under your belt, I would suggest that you refrain from commenting on moderation at this point, but if you are going to comment on it, please read the entire message posted by the mods to attempt to fully understand why they took the action they did.

I did not shut down the other thread to prevent venting. I shut it down because a few persistent posters were saying the same things about Duke football that they have said for YEARS. I encouraged folks that have something new to say - critical or not - to create new threads, but I will not tolerate (unless directed otherwise by the admins) the repeated bashing of Duke, Duke Athletics, and Duke coaches by people that appear to have an axe to grind or that have nothing new to offer.

I agree since I read the board almost everyday, but refrain from posting I should keep any moderation opinions to myself and of course if I "fully understand" then of course I would have to agree with you. You can moderate the boards however you see fit. I will keep my opinions off this board.

[Bluedawg]

2nd quarter, 4th and 1, we are a little past midfield...we line up to go for it, but instead, Aszak does a "pooch punt"...why?

I agree, that may have been a turning point, showing no trust in his team. i have had questions about some of his decisions, namely the last play in last years UNC game when he attempted the 1 pt kick when he had not made any all game, but had made 2 point conversions. i know the rule is you play to win on the road and play to tie at home, but when you are 0-11 you always play to win!

I'd like to see him loosen up a bit and got for broke, like on the first drive yesterday.

[mapei]

I think people need a place to express their disappointment and embarrassment with Duke football. What's wrong with doing so on DBR, where many of us enjoy conversation? The critical posts on Duke football are no more repetitive (or, if you prefer, "unoriginal") than many of the positive comments on basketball threads.

In general, I think the mods here do a swell job. This is the best sports board I've read by a long shot. But I hope we don't feel a need to over-police what I think is a pretty understandable reaction to Saturday's game.

Cheers.

[cspan37421]

Jlear, read the sticky on infraction/banning policy and procedure, and pay particular attention to the definition of "destructively negative", and meditate on that in light of comments from the removed thread that assert if an immediate change isn't made, then the admin is intentionally putting out a bad product and wants football to fail.

If that's not desructively negative I don't know what is. Feel free to create and manage your own board unencumbered by such rules.

[Kewlswim]

Your opinion is noted.

With all of 5 posts under your belt, I would suggest that you refrain from commenting on moderation at this point, but if you are going to comment on it, please read the entire message posted by the mods to attempt to fully understand why they took the action they did.

I did not shut down the other thread to prevent venting. I shut it down because a few persistent posters were saying the same things about Duke football that they have said for YEARS. I encouraged folks that have something new to say - critical or not - to create new threads, but I will not tolerate (unless directed otherwise by the admins) the repeated bashing of Duke, Duke Athletics, and Duke coaches by people that appear to have an axe to grind or that have nothing new to offer.

Maybe Coach Roof will resign? I haven't said that yet. I am so bummed, distraught, angered, flustered, and frustrated by our football performance over the last few years (decades?) that I am not sure I can bear to watch a game anymore. :-( I LOVE DUKE FOOTBALL. I wish the powers at Duke did as much as I do.

GO DUKE!

[TheDuke11]

let me tell you how much Duke University cares about its football program.
We have lost 22 (or is it 23?) consecutive games, some to DII programs and many to horrible DI programs, yet we still have the same head coach.

I love Roof to death, I swear I do, but my God how obvious is it that he isnt going to be able to get the job done?

[6th Man]

I have been shot down a little on my suggestion of fan support being part of the contributing cause to losing. (I do realize there are many other factors). I know the question was posed on how I explain teams winning on the road....my explanation would be that you go on the road not expecting fans to be there cheering for you. To play to shut the other fans up. These Duke guys will come out for the Va. Tech home game in Wallace Wade this year and think they are in Blacksburg. How does that motivate these (18-22) year old kids? If I were a Duke football player, I'd rather play on the road. It has to be humiliating to run out onto the field at Wallace Wade. Especially when playing a Va. Tech that will fill up the stands with their fans.

I'm not arguing this is the main reason we lose, but it sure doesn't help the team win any games. I hope the loyal fans that keep attending and cheering will be rewarded someday. It happened to the loyal fans of basketball. I know several folks that bought season tix to Duke basketball back when they struggled in the early 80's. They kept renewing every year and now they have the "golden tickets" to Cameron each season.

[Patrick Yates]

I have been shot down a little on my suggestion of fan support being part of the contributing cause to losing. (I do realize there are many other factors). I know the question was posed on how I explain teams winning on the road....my explanation would be that you go on the road not expecting fans to be there cheering for you. To play to shut the other fans up. These Duke guys will come out for the Va. Tech home game in Wallace Wade this year and think they are in Blacksburg. How does that motivate these (18-22) year old kids? If I were a Duke football player, I'd rather play on the road. It has to be humiliating to run out onto the field at Wallace Wade. Especially when playing a Va. Tech that will fill up the stands with their fans.

I'm not arguing this is the main reason we lose, but it sure doesn't help the team win any games. I hope the loyal fans that keep attending and cheering will be rewarded someday. It happened to the loyal fans of basketball. I know several folks that bought season tix to Duke basketball back when they struggled in the early 80's. They kept renewing every year and now they have the "golden tickets" to Cameron each season.

I would argue that it is embarassing and disheartening as fans to shoulder the expense of trekking to a home game only to see the home team barely put forth an effort. When I was at school from 97-01, at home games I would routinely see players on the sidelines not watching the game, or smiling and joking arround with each other even as the team got Destroyed on the field. Not beaten badly, but truly humiliated, on our home field. IMHO, sometimes it seems as if the kids are somewhat indifferent. They, and some on this board, seem to be of the opinion that as long as they try their best we as fans are duty bound to support them unconditionally. If the team won a few games, the fans would come. The fans don't come for losing. Attendance follows success, not vice versa. Nor should it.

If Duke were mired in a brief period of losing, I would agree with you re: fans keeping the faith. But this is not a brief period of losing. Duke now has incoming freshman who were not born the last time Duke was releveant (with the lone exclusion of the 94 season, which was a fluke). That is not a period of futility, that is generational.

Also, can we please stop comparing the FB losing to the extremely brief periods when the B-Ball team was down, both in the 70s and 80s. During those periods, Duke was down briefly. Even though K struggled early, the true nadar came when he was playing virtually all freshman, many of whom were highly regarded. Keep in mind that was a time when only the very best Jrs left school early, so that team was playing against fellow ACC teams dominated by upperclassmen. K had 2-3 mediocre to bad years, not decade upon decade of being truly horrendous.

Patrick Yates

regarding Va Tech and FSU, both of whom regularly fill WW when they come to town, there is a reason for that. Those teams are so good (traditionally, bit of a down period right now), that most fans cannot get into the 80,000 seat home areanas, much like many Duke fans cannot get into Cameron. They are willing to really travel to a road venue in a town that is not exactly known for its rocking night life because it is the only chance they have to see their teams play in person, for a reasonable ticket price. Again, that level of support is earned, not given. Were it not for these visiting fans, Duke Football would be so far in the red people would mistake it for ENRON.

[Bluedawg]

reading the paper today I ran across a line written by Chip Alexander in discussing NC State and the work Tom O'Brien has to do. He said

How long will it take for State to get away from its old, bad habits and learn how to win?

It struck me that this is one thing that all of the posts concerning Duke football has missed. We can change Chip's words to read

How long will it take for Duke to get away from its old, bad habits and learn how to win?

i wrote this then i read Patrick Yates' post. I loved this line that he wrote

Duke now has incoming freshman who were not born the last time Duke was releveant (with the lone exclusion of the 94 season, which was a fluke). That is not a period of futility, that is generational.

It illustrates my point. Theirs "is not a period of futility, it is generational" so therefore how can they drop their "old, bad habits and learn how to win?"

[FewFAC]

Duke fans are unfair to Duke football. To expect the impossible in a situation where the things necessary for victory are unavailable and not provided defies logic. Duke fans should simply accept Duke football for what it is, and rally around an organization determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Duke should focus on rebranding its football program into a Wallace Wade "experience" centered on its crumbling history and infrastructure, and turn game time into an experience that focuses on off-the-field adventures, a la Wrigley Field.

[TheDuke11]

we (Duke Football Fans) do not expect Duke to compete for a NC. I dont think our expectations of a team that comes out and every now and then has a chance to win is unreasonable. EVERY OTHER TEAM IN DIVISION I has that expectation. Why shouldnt we?
losing to richmond and uCOn should not be acceptable. being owned by wfu also should not be accecptable.