MBB: (5) Michigan State 72, (3) Ohio State 68 (OT)

[pfrduke]

The Buckeyes just closed the second half on a 20-3 run, in the Breslin Center, to send the game to overtime. Ridiculous comeback. And they already have the 8 points in 50+ seconds performance against Notre Dame.

[Dukehky]

Craft is incredible. I don't think either of these teams can win a national title, especially OSU because they don't have enough scoring, but I wouldn't want to play them. OSU has one of the best defensive backcourts I can remember.

[Dukehky]

I also really like Dakich as a commentator. This has been a fun game to watch and listen to.

[FerryFor50]

Craft is incredible. I don't think either of these teams can win a national title, especially OSU because they don't have enough scoring, but I wouldn't want to play them. OSU has one of the best defensive backcourts I can remember.

I get a little tired of the "hands up but run your body into the offensive player" defense. It's a foul that doesn't seem to get called on Craft. Not sure why.

[Dukehky]

I get a little tired of the "hands up but run your body into the offensive player" defense. It's a foul that doesn't seem to get called on Craft. Not sure why.

Totally agree, and every big ten coach hates it because he kind of has the Hansbrough thing going for him in that he can't possibly do anything wrong, but have you seen the hustle and smart plays he's made in the past 4 game minutes? The kid plays his butt off, and if the refs don't call it, it's not really his fault...

[FerryFor50]

Totally agree, and every big ten coach hates it because he kind of has the Hansbrough thing going for him in that he can't possibly do anything wrong, but have you seen the hustle and smart plays he's made in the past 4 game minutes? The kid plays his butt off, and if the refs don't call it, it's not really his fault...

Oh he def plays hard. Doesn't make me like him, though, just like Hansbrough .

[Dukehky]

Oh he def plays hard. Doesn't make me like him, though, just like Hansbrough .

He looks way less terrible when he does it got the whole pinkish hugh in the cheek and baby face. Doesn't look like it's going to matter anyway. OSU just can't score at the clip I think is necessary to win a title. I know that wasn't really a question posed in the thread, but that's what most of it is ultimately about right?

[pfrduke]

He looks way less terrible when he does it got the whole pinkish hugh in the cheek and baby face. Doesn't look like it's going to matter anyway. OSU just can't score at the clip I think is necessary to win a title. I know that wasn't really a question posed in the thread, but that's what most of it is ultimately about right?

I dunno, others of us can enjoy a random Tuesday night game between top 5 teams without worrying about their respective long term prospects. This is fun, intense basketball. Does it need to be about more?

[Dukehky]

I dunno, others of us can enjoy a random Tuesday night game between top 5 teams without worrying about their respective long term prospects. This is fun, intense basketball. Does it need to be about more?

It doesn't need to be, but if you watched this game without wondering how each team could do in the tournament or against Duke more specifically then you and I are different. Not that that is a good or bad thing, just different. I love watching games every night of the week, and part of my enjoyment is to gauge for myself how I think these teams will fair in general in March. It doesn't need to be about more than the game, but that is part of what I, personally, like about watching.

[pfrduke]

Tom Izzo: "Some of our guys played like little boys." Ha! Probably a tough practice tomorrow, notwithstanding the win.

[TexHawk]

Craft is incredible. I don't think either of these teams can win a national title, especially OSU because they don't have enough scoring, but I wouldn't want to play them. OSU has one of the best defensive backcourts I can remember.

Here's the weird thing about Craft. Don't get me wrong, he's a great help defender, lots of hustle plays, etc., but why doesn't anybody notice that his primary defensive assignment was the leading scorer in this game? This happens a lot, and I don't understand it at all. Brandon Paul famously put up 43 points on OSU and Craft two seasons ago. He then torched Craft so much in the early part of last year's game, Thad Matta just pulled Craft onto Tracy Abrams to avoid further embarrassment (OSU eventually lost by 20). Trey Burke put up great numbers against Craft too.

[Dukehky]

Here's the weird thing about Craft. Don't get me wrong, he's a great help defender, lots of hustle plays, etc., but why doesn't anybody notice that his primary defensive assignment was the leading scorer in this game? This happens a lot, and I don't understand it at all. Brandon Paul famously put up 43 points on OSU and Craft two seasons ago. He then torched Craft so much in the early part of last year's game, Thad Matta just pulled Craft onto Tracy Abrams to avoid further embarrassment (OSU eventually lost by 20). Trey Burke put up great numbers against Craft too.

Color me surprised. I wasn't really commenting on his on ball defense in this game in particular. Just some of the incredible hustle/nose for the ball type deals. I was actually much more impressed with the defense of Scott and Thompson. I did kind of drink the kool aid on his defense though, I still think he's pretty good.

[Des Esseintes]

He looks way less terrible when he does it got the whole pinkish hugh in the cheek and baby face. Doesn't look like it's going to matter anyway. OSU just can't score at the clip I think is necessary to win a title. I know that wasn't really a question posed in the thread, but that's what most of it is ultimately about right?

OSU is good enough to potentially garner a 1-seed. Any 1-seed is good enough to win a title, if fortune smiles.

[CDu]

Here's the weird thing about Craft. Don't get me wrong, he's a great help defender, lots of hustle plays, etc., but why doesn't anybody notice that his primary defensive assignment was the leading scorer in this game? This happens a lot, and I don't understand it at all. Brandon Paul famously put up 43 points on OSU and Craft two seasons ago. He then torched Craft so much in the early part of last year's game, Thad Matta just pulled Craft onto Tracy Abrams to avoid further embarrassment (OSU eventually lost by 20). Trey Burke put up great numbers against Craft too.

First of all, I'm pretty sure Craft spent most of his time on Harris, not Appling. The times I saw Appling score were either in transition or against Scott. But beyond that, when you're asked to guard the other team's best offensive player as Craft often is, you're often going to get beaten. That's just the nature of the beast.

Furthermore, I'd argue that Paul (who is a big, physical, athletic SG) was probably not a good matchup for Craft. Craft's strength is his strength. Paul more than offsets that with his own physicality, and he had a substantial height and athleticism edge as well. And Burke was a lottery pick. No shame in getting beaten by Burke.

Craft is a terrific defender both off-ball and on-ball. That reputation has allowed him to get away with more contact than he should (which helps make him a better defender). Is he flawless? No. He's not incredibly quick, and not explosive at all. But he competes, makes life very difficult for most of his covers, is a terror in the passing lanes and help defense, and generally does a good job in man-to-man, too.

Is he a bit overrated? Probably. Does he get away with fouls? Absolutely. He is still an elite defensive player? I would argue yes.

[FerryFor50]

Is he a bit overrated? Probably. Does he get away with fouls? Absolutely. He is still an elite defensive player? I would argue yes.

I'd argue he's elite *because* he is overrated and gets away with fouls. There's such a thing as too much respect.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'd argue he's elite *because* he is overrated and gets away with fouls. There's such a thing as too much respect.

Is your dislike for Craft like the rest of the nation's dislike for Wojo? IMO, they are very similar players: poor shooters, decent distributors, physically unimpressive, insane competitors, great defenders.

I like Aaron Craft. He maximizes his talent moreso than any player in the NCAA.

I don't understand how you can dislike a player for him not getting fouls called on him. Is that the player's fault?

[FerryFor50]

Is your dislike for Craft like the rest of the nation's dislike for Wojo? IMO, they are very similar players: poor shooters, decent distributors, physically unimpressive, insane competitors, great defenders.

I like Aaron Craft. He maximizes his talent moreso than any player in the NCAA.

I don't understand how you can dislike a player for him not getting fouls called on him. Is that the player's fault?

No, my dislike for him isn't personal. It has everything to do with the media attention. It's the Tebow effect. I get sick of hearing of how great of a defender he is when my eyes see him fouling constantly.

Or the Hansbrough effect. Sure, he scored a lot... but how often did he travel or bull over his man?

[Bluedog]

Tom Izzo: "Some of our guys played like little boys." Ha! Probably a tough practice tomorrow, notwithstanding the win.

Well, that was after saying, "Some of our guys played like men." So, perhaps extra running for just some of them.

[FerryFor50]

Well, that was after saying, "Some of our guys played like men." So, perhaps extra running for just some of them.

Do they get a sippy cup after running?

[TexHawk]

First of all, I'm pretty sure Craft spent most of his time on Harris, not Appling. The times I saw Appling score were either in transition or against Scott. But beyond that, when you're asked to guard the other team's best offensive player as Craft often is, you're often going to get beaten. That's just the nature of the beast.

Furthermore, I'd argue that Paul (who is a big, physical, athletic SG) was probably not a good matchup for Craft. Craft's strength is his strength. Paul more than offsets that with his own physicality, and he had a substantial height and athleticism edge as well. And Burke was a lottery pick. No shame in getting beaten by Burke.

I do get that, and this is going to appear more argumentative than I mean it be: The "nature of the beast thing" worries me, because if you're an all-world defender, you SHOULD be holding those guys to below their averages. If you don't, I honestly don't know how we can measure one-on-one defensive abilities. Is it just the eye test? Craft *looks* like he's defending really hard, but since Trey Burke is just so good, he's going to get his anyway? If Michael Jordan averages 30 points a game, and over the course of many games, one defender holds him to 20, another gives up an average of 45, and another keeps him at his average of 30, how do you view those three defenders?

<soapbox>
I admit that the "Craft as an all-world defender" thing chaps me more than a lot of stories, because it's just another example of the media and fans deciding on a narrative first, then over-emphasizing the things that validate their stance, and completely ignoring everything else.

It's also maddening because ESPN and others use games like last night to write competing narratives (usually in the same article), while being completely oblivious to the fact that they are arguing both sides of the issue. For example, there is probably an article on ESPN.com this morning that talks about Appling's great game, guts, etc. In the same piece, there is probably more about Craft's great defense, willing them back, etc. You can't have both if Craft was the one who gave up all of those points to Appling**.

** You may be right about how much time Craft spent on Appling, and in reality, these arguments can get really complicated, because there is so much more to defense than just one-on-one skill. I only watched a bit of the game, just read a few message board threads, and of course, the front page of ESPN.com last night was a picture of Craft guarding Appling at the top of the key.

Another example, that hits a little close to home this week, the outright fawning over Andrew Luck's performance on Saturday night against KC, while also admonishing KC's high-school level defense. You can't have both. Either Andrew Luck was amazing while beating a good defense. Or the defense was so bad that my sister could throw for 400 yards too.
</soapbox>