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  1. #41
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    His name is Jozy Altidore, and his little friend Brandon Donovan. If Altidore comes to the ball and gets it, his little friend, Brandon Donovan showed pretty good in making sure of that, the guy is quite formidable, in moments, perhaps world class (I defer to the soccer experts on that). You combine them with Clint Demsey, who starts in the middle but comes up front in the last 1/3 or sooner, and we're seeing an offense that will make you stand up and look. Hey, how many goals can Ronaldo score?

    There are lots of other people we can all mention (or you guys can all mention), but the ace in the hole, if Altidore gets to handle on offense, is the little guy in the back, that would be, DaMarcus Beasley, and his ability to hurt you in a number of ways coming forward, most importantly, as a distributor and as always a potential threat to get behind the defense if someone isn't watching, and I do mean watching. Having to devote a resource or resources to protecting against the potentiality that this guy poses changes the way a team has to play, how it would otherwise choose to play against the U.S. No one likes to be dictated to in that fashion. And, like I said, you fall asleep and maybe boom goes the dynamite.

    I say let them play 'em first.

    Besides: two armies are equal, Army A and Army B. Each is surrounded by identical overwhelming forces, comprising the most vicious and ruthless warriors the world has known. They threaten to kill every last man, that is, after skinning alive anyone who survives being torched alive, which is the torture of choice. The soldiers in Army A spend the night before scared out of their minds about what is to come, how "bad" it's gonna feel to get roasted or skinned alive. Those in Army B say to one another, who says that they win, they got lances, we got lances, they got balls of fire, we got balls of fire, these guys only think that they know the outcome. And, besides, even if we lose, and those of us who survive the battle might well wish they had not (you think), we're gonna take a whole lot of those bastards with us, and, when we chop, we'll be aiming for the good spots (ouch). So, the guys in Army B then call in the babes and party like crazy.

    I ask you, who has a better chance in battle the next morning. And, who, my friends, had the better last night. Remember Lake Placid!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    As others have said, the draw is bad, the travel is bad, but the schedule is good. Our path is so clear and it starts with a win over Ghana. Do that and then get draws in our next two and we are through, I'd wager. I do agree that 3 points against Portugal seems possible. I am just so happy that we get Germany in the last game of the group stage. I think that will serve us well as Germany may not have much motivation.

    -Jason "but we must get 3 versus Ghana... must" Evans
    The team will be based in Sao Paulo, so while there are long trips involved to each match, they are in one of the best training spots in Brazil according to all I've seen and read. Teams usually secure training locales the year before the draw, which is why our team will not be based in Recife or Natal...we had to hope we wouldn't be in the jungle of Manaus and on the northwest coast, but now that we are we will take it.

    Also, if you're in Miami, expect one of the sendoff matches to be located there. Lots of teams are hoping to line up matches there in advance of the World Cup. I've heard that we might be playing England in Miami because they too have a match in Manaus and want to get acclimated to the hot and humid tropical weather (we were set to play them here in DC before the draw). I imagine there will be other matches down there that don't involve the U.S. as well.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    That's all well and good, but the operative word here is "can." Messi has failed to carry his team in the WC thus far. Rooney likewise. The winner of the last three major titles has a bunch of stars but not the sort of trancendently talented striker you're talking about. And the superstar at hand here barely managed to get his team past Sweden and into the World Cup, denying another of Europe's superstars, Ibrahimovic, a berth. Whether that's all because the operative theory about teams with a superstar needs some parsing, or it's an indication that the rest of the Portugal squad just isn't all that good, I don't know, but I don't think it matters. They're a team that drew with Israel twice and Northern Ireland once this year in European qualifying. Their midfield from 2010 has almost completely turned over, and that was the secondary strength of the team.

    Anyway, I think we all remember the last time Portugal came into the World Cup riding the best player in the world. Didn't turn out so well, and if memory serves, we were one of the teams to beat them in the group stage. I guarantee no one in Lisbon was psyched when they drew the U.S. We'll be just the sort of team with a dangerous counterattack and solid (if unspectacular) midfield play that tempts them to play the way they did in the 2010 Cup, when they left Ronaldo unsupported in attack out of fear, and had no discernible personality in style of play. Or, if they do go aggressive, we'll be the sort of team that can punish them if they're not careful and/or don't take advantage of their opportunities. They've seen what Jozy and Donovan are capable of on the break, and it may dissuade them from exploiting our biggest weaknesses, contra Germany, who's never afraid to go after your weak links for fear of your offense. Portugal doesn't match up well with Germany, so there's a pretty decent chance we'll find ourselves in decent shape if we can just get a draw here, if we can take care of business against Ghana and then face Germany in a spot where a 0-0 tie is perfectly acceptable for them.
    Well dude, you may know lots about soccer and I don't. But I need to ask this! What of Portugal's near upset of Spain in Euro 2012? (Went to penalty kicks, IIRC?) What's going on with that? Educate me about what happened in regulation of Spain-Portugal.

    This is why I love the Germans. Sometimes they get too aggressive against a Spain or an Italy, and they lose. But that's what I love. They actually try to score. All day.

    Soccer ignoramus out.

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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Well dude, you may know lots about soccer and I don't. But I need to ask this! What of Portugal's near upset of Spain in Euro 2012? (Went to penalty kicks, IIRC?) What's going on with that? Educate me about what happened in regulation of Spain-Portugal.

    This is why I love the Germans. Sometimes they get too aggressive against a Spain or an Italy, and they lose. But that's what I love. They actually try to score. All day.

    Soccer ignoramus out.
    Didn't see it. According to this report: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/18355311 Portugal did a good job of clogging up the midfield to keep Spain from holding the ball for 65 minutes and getting into rhythm with some aggressive and physical play, leaving Ronaldo to do his thing when he got free, but he was a little rusty, as well. They beat the Dutch prior to that, with a clinical fast break goal for the winner. So clearly there's some ability there, and it's possible they didn't have the full squad for one or more of those somewhat baffling draws against significantly inferior teams in WC qualifying. I don't want to come across as dumping on them too much, but rather wanted to temper Udaman's doomsaying, as he seems to have pencilled Portugal into the finals due to Ronaldo in full bloom, and gives us about a 5% chance of advancing from the group stage. I'm just saying they're not a juggernaut, and I tend to agree with the ESPN power ranking more than I do the FIFA ranking.

    I'm with you on Germany. When I was younger, I didn't like their reliance on aerial play, preferring the beautiful game, but I've come to appreciate their style, fitness and pressure.

    ETA: uhmmm, greybeard: it's Landon, not Brandon.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    Didn't see it. According to this report: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/18355311 Portugal did a good job of clogging up the midfield to keep Spain from holding the ball for 65 minutes and getting into rhythm with some aggressive and physical play, leaving Ronaldo to do his thing when he got free, but he was a little rusty, as well. They beat the Dutch prior to that, with a clinical fast break goal for the winner. So clearly there's some ability there, and it's possible they didn't have the full squad for one or more of those somewhat baffling draws against significantly inferior teams in WC qualifying. I don't want to come across as dumping on them too much, but rather wanted to temper Udaman's doomsaying, as he seems to have pencilled Portugal into the finals due to Ronaldo in full bloom, and gives us about a 5% chance of advancing from the group stage. I'm just saying they're not a juggernaut, and I tend to agree with the ESPN power ranking more than I do the FIFA ranking.

    I'm with you on Germany. When I was younger, I didn't like their reliance on aerial play, preferring the beautiful game, but I've come to appreciate their style, fitness and pressure.

    ETA: uhmmm, greybeard: it's Landon, not Brandon.
    The best player in the world don't always win the World Cup. I think the last team to include someone you could argue was in the Top 3 in the world at the time is Brazil in 2002 (Ronaldo). France almost continued that in 2006 but for "The Headbutt" by another player who was top 3 at the time (Zidane). Italy had a great team made up of good-to-great players and Spain consisted of awesome players but no one that would be considered Top 3 best in the world in 2010.

    To win the World Cup, you must have hot goalkeeping, consistent scoring and any additional elements of luck, good defense and a couple game-changing plays or playmakers. Most of the teams that have made it to the quarters of the past few World Cups have almost all of those elements. Take, for example, the 2002 U.S. team that made it to the quarters. We had some hot goaltending, consistent scoring from our strikers (Mathis, McBride), some good defense when it mattered and some game-changing plays (McBride's goal against Portugal, Mathis' "That's Why He's Here" goal against South Korea, Donovan's goal against Mexico in the Round of 16). What happened against Germany? We ran out of luck...the German handball on the goal line that wasn't called that denied us a goal, a couple Donovan breakaways that were stuffed by Germany's Oliver Kahn). If we get a few more bounces or we get a red card called on Frings that would have given us a penalty shot seen Germany go down a man the rest of the match, maybe we advance to the semis for a rematch with South Korea (who we tied in the group stage).

    We haven't had any hot goaltending since 2002 in the World Cup. Timmy will have to show one last bit of fire with his performance next summer in Brazil. Our strikers will have to score consistently (Jozy, Aron Johannsson) and we must get big play from our big players (Deuce, Bradley, Donovan). It's quite possible we will walk into the World Cup with a back line with no World Cup experience, so we must play well up front to take the pressure off them and Howard. And, with this group, we can't make any mistakes. These teams will capitalize on mistakes and with arguably one of the best teams (Germany) and the #1 or #1a player in the world depending on who you support (CR7), you can't give them chances to score. Every point will matter in this group.

    The good thing about this group is that I can see the two teams to advance out of this group advancing very far. Groups E, F and H aren't too strong save for a couple of teams, and it could very well be two teams from G in the semifinals. For that to happen, we will need a little luck on our side in addition to the above. But, it's just as possible for us to have a run for the ages as it is for us to watch 3 matches and then go home.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    Well dude, you may know lots about soccer and I don't. But I need to ask this! What of Portugal's near upset of Spain in Euro 2012? (Went to penalty kicks, IIRC?) What's going on with that? Educate me about what happened in regulation of Spain-Portugal.

    This is why I love the Germans. Sometimes they get too aggressive against a Spain or an Italy, and they lose. But that's what I love. They actually try to score. All day.

    Soccer ignoramus out.
    I seem to recall Germany having a brilliant game against Spain last year by physically dominating Spain's midfielders. I don't see Germany as being more aggressive scorers, only more forceful.

    Spain's game seems to be occupy the ball, go, and then lock you up before you can clear, and then occupy some more, go, etc, until the real attack presents, and then it often becomes an all out assault.

    Germany I thought played its version of Spain-ball by focusing so much on locking up Spain's midfielders and keeping them out of the pressure turn-over defense upon which the assault rests. It then had the ability to initiate the offense quickly, without the usual traps/swarms that Spain uses so effectively to turn teams over near the mid field.

    It has been Germany's ability to bring dominance to the midfield defense that has made it so formidable and permitted it to soundly defeat Spain. Playing aggressively on offense was successful, imo, only because of its ability to prevent Spain's turn over defense that normally stops an opponent's offense from beginning over long stretches.

    I seem to recall that Portugal used a similar strategy in its defeat of Spain last year in the Euros.

    I think that Spain began developing a counter to the strategy I think I saw, and might have gotten quite good at it. The strategy is to quickly make much more penetrating passes into the defense than usual to not only deflate the outside pressure, but also to permit Spain's higher skilled up front players to turn and attack without facing the double teams most defenses try to deploy. I think that we will see a melding of these two styles of play from Spain such that the outside pressure will get bounced around more, and the ability of Germany to predict and defeat play will be weakened. Going early and aggressively on offense will, at least in my theory, become much less productive of good chances, and more likely to reflect disorganization that just ain't German.

    What do I know?





    Germany was effective at that, and thus had numbers

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    The best player in the world don't always win the World Cup. I think the last team to include someone you could argue was in the Top 3 in the world at the time is Brazil in 2002 (Ronaldo). France almost continued that in 2006 but for "The Headbutt" by another player who was top 3 at the time (Zidane). Italy had a great team made up of good-to-great players and Spain consisted of awesome players but no one that would be considered Top 3 best in the world in 2010.
    Good post, but one point...Cannavaro and Buffon finished 1 and 2 in the Balon d'or in 2006. Interestingly, Henry - Zidane's countryman - finished 3rd.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Brandon Donovan
    Seriously?
    Last edited by throatybeard; 12-11-2013 at 11:02 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
    Good post, but one point...Cannavaro and Buffon finished 1 and 2 in the Balon d'or in 2006. Interestingly, Henry - Zidane's countryman - finished 3rd.
    That's true, however back then the Balon d'Or was more of a MVP/POY type of award instead of a "who is the best in the world" contest. Cannavaro had a great year that year as did Buffon (hell, Buffon has had a ridiculous career), but If you asked anyone back then who the best player in the world was, Zidane would be at or near the top of everyone's list. Buffon would likely have been in that discussion, but a lot of people don't usually throw in keepers into the best in the world conversation.

    I think the Balon d'Or now is more of a "who is the best in the world" conversation which is why Messi and CR7 have been the two guys dominating the final 3 placings the past 3 years.
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  10. #50
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    Is it always scorers who are considered "the best" in the World in soccer also? One would have thought that Iniesta would be in the running. He does make the Spanish side, and Barcelona who they are, right? And, if there is anyone in any game that has better balance, awareness, and the ability to surprise in order to control the play and set up an attack, orchestrate tempo, and enable others to play an approximation of what he brings, I'm all ears. The guy is an impresario, more vital to "team" than anyone in the game, and he isn't mentioned. I completely understand why, but not.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Is it always scorers who are considered "the best" in the World in soccer also? One would have thought that Iniesta would be in the running. He does make the Spanish side, and Barcelona who they are, right? And, if there is anyone in any game that has better balance, awareness, and the ability to surprise in order to control the play and set up an attack, orchestrate tempo, and enable others to play an approximation of what he brings, I'm all ears. The guy is an impresario, more vital to "team" than anyone in the game, and he isn't mentioned. I completely understand why, but not.
    Iniesta finished 2nd in 2011 I believe in the Ballon d'Or, but no one has him on their lips now in the conversation of best in the world. Iniesta is really sweet, but scoring goals is going to be his downfall. And it's not like the players who you consider in the conversation today of best in the world (Messi, CR7, Ibrahimovic) are one dimensional players. They can do it all. Also, Iniesta's fault, unfortunately, is playing with Messi. Because of that, he'll never be considered one of the world's best because he's not even the best on his team and a lot of his stats--particularly on the assists--can be attributed to players that many would consider even better than him.
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  12. #52
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    Here's what a dingus I am, w/r/t soccer. During Euro 2008, I honest-to-God thought the announcers were saying "Lunesta" when talking about Iniesta.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    Iniesta finished 2nd in 2011 I believe in the Ballon d'Or, but no one has him on their lips now in the conversation of best in the world. Iniesta is really sweet, but scoring goals is going to be his downfall. And it's not like the players who you consider in the conversation today of best in the world (Messi, CR7, Ibrahimovic) are one dimensional players. They can do it all. Also, Iniesta's fault, unfortunately, is playing with Messi. Because of that, he'll never be considered one of the world's best because he's not even the best on his team and a lot of his stats--particularly on the assists--can be attributed to players that many would consider even better than him.
    Thanks for the info and analysis. I guess that Messi is so fabulous with the ball on his scoring forays that take place close to the goal that I they become of a piece in my mind with those passes of his, especially in tight, that lead to beautiful play.

    That said, for me, there is something magical about Iniesta; the company I am in, you guys I am certain know what I mean and I am equally certain understand and can describe it better. I played basketball with a guy who is infamous by the name of Edie Garde who was in the middle of the college basketball scandals in the early 1950s, I was just a kid, late teens, but it was unlike any game I had experienced or watched since. Iniesta-like but basketball is not football, and Garde had no opportunity to see how his talents might have manifest if he had.

    As a kid I tried to capture some of Garde's game in my own. If I played soccer and Iniesta was in Garde's shoes, no way. If he slipped one to me, I'd have picked it up and run.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by blazindw View Post
    Iniesta finished 2nd in 2011 I believe in the Ballon d'Or, but no one has him on their lips now in the conversation of best in the world. Iniesta is really sweet, but scoring goals is going to be his downfall. And it's not like the players who you consider in the conversation today of best in the world (Messi, CR7, Ibrahimovic) are one dimensional players. They can do it all. Also, Iniesta's fault, unfortunately, is playing with Messi. Because of that, he'll never be considered one of the world's best because he's not even the best on his team and a lot of his stats--particularly on the assists--can be attributed to players that many would consider even better than him.
    He finished 2nd in 2010, 4th in 2011, and 3rd in 2012. Unless you mean 20 years from now, looking back on him, that he won't be considered one of the best, I could see that, but I think it's a little crazy to not consider Iniesta one of the best in the world over the last few years. He scored the winner in the 2010 WC final and his movement creates a tremendous amount of the [still small amount of] space Messi operates in. He's not old, but at 29 it's likely that his prime is behind him...something which is starting to show this year, but I think you have to say that as long as the FIFA Balon'Dor has been around, Don Andres has been one of the best in the world.

    I agree that it's probably his great misfortune that 2 players as sensational of goal scorers as Messi and Cristiano play in his same generation, and for that he won't be remembered as highly as perhaps he should be...but if you look back at who won the POY award over the last 10 years, it's full of some powerhouse names. He's been at the center of perhaps the most successful run in the history of the Champions League as well certainly the most successful run in the history of country competition.

  15. #55
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    Top 100

    Here is the Guardian's list of the 100 best footballers in the world... not a single American name in the mix.

    -Jason "Germany with the top defender and goalie. 6 of the top 25 players. We don't have a chance against them, right?" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  16. #56
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    I saw that yesterday and found it interesting. In all fairness I can't think of any American that should be close. I think Bradley would probably be rated the highest at the moment. You could make arguments for Dempsey, Altidore, and Howard as well.

  17. #57
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    Yeah, if they list Eden Hazard at #100, then there's no way an American approaches that list. I would imagine if they expanded that list to 200, you'd see some Americans on there. But really, after the top 3, you can throw argue any other spot for any other player on that list.

    Despite not having any Top 100 players, we are still in the top 14 in the world. That alone speaks volumes as to how strong our team can be.
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  18. #58
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    Query: is it the case that the voters do not look to South American players, in particular, who might chose to stay home rather than scoot for the money on the Continent. My son, who is quite knowledgeable on the level of many of you here, has written that Columbia has enough outstanding players to comprise two World-Cup elevens. How crazy is it that Cesc Fabregas is ranked so high and yet does not start for Barcelona? Neymar ranked too high perhaps, on potential yet unseen on "the big stage?"

    Very illuming and to the point discourse here. Much appreciated.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Query: is it the case that the voters do not look to South American players, in particular, who might chose to stay home rather than scoot for the money on the Continent. My son, who is quite knowledgeable on the level of many of you here, has written that Columbia has enough outstanding players to comprise two World-Cup elevens. How crazy is it that Cesc Fabregas is ranked so high and yet does not start for Barcelona? Neymar ranked too high perhaps, on potential yet unseen on "the big stage?"

    Very illuming and to the point discourse here. Much appreciated.
    It's probably only natural that a UK-based paper is somewhat biased toward the continent. And the money is so much greater in moving to Europe that the far majority of players talented enough to make the move make it happen. Colombia is certainly a contender in the World Cup but I think their ability to create two World Cup-11s is a stretch. Jackson Martinez and Radamel Falcao are both exceptional, world-class forwards (which is maybe where that line of thought stems from) but Colombia's success in the tournament will most likely depend on who can get them the ball (the #10) - whether Quintero is ready for the jump, Torres can have a steady run of games, or either Falcao/Rodriguez is willing to play below the other one. Quintero started very brightly for Porto but is just making his way back from a hamstring injury. And as one of the standout players in the U-20 world cup, look out for him to be the reason Colombia either meets or falls to expectation.

    As for Cesc and Neymar...I'm not sure what you mean. Cesc and Neymar have started joint-third most matches for Barcelona this year. And Cesc leads the team in La Liga starts. Cesc's playing time is largely a result of Messi's injury issues but his play has merited it as well - he leads Europe in overall assists. He's not a natural goal scorer as Messi is...to expect that of him is unfair (heck, to expect anyone not named Cristiano to produce like Messi is unfair). That being said - 7 goals and 9 assists from 14 matches is a tally most any team would take. Neymar also did a superb job in the Confed Cup last summer. I understand that tournament is a somewhat B-level tournament, but Neymar showed he's willing to defend intensely and not just await play higher up the pitch, something many of the South American playmakers have been accused of. Those Guardian rankings are gimmicky more than anything (Hazard below Lampard? Really?). Take them with a grain of salt.

  20. #60
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
    It's probably only natural that a UK-based paper is somewhat biased toward the continent. And the money is so much greater in moving to Europe that the far majority of players talented enough to make the move make it happen. Colombia is certainly a contender in the World Cup but I think their ability to create two World Cup-11s is a stretch. Jackson Martinez and Radamel Falcao are both exceptional, world-class forwards (which is maybe where that line of thought stems from) but Colombia's success in the tournament will most likely depend on who can get them the ball (the #10) - whether Quintero is ready for the jump, Torres can have a steady run of games, or either Falcao/Rodriguez is willing to play below the other one. Quintero started very brightly for Porto but is just making his way back from a hamstring injury. And as one of the standout players in the U-20 world cup, look out for him to be the reason Colombia either meets or falls to expectation.

    As for Cesc and Neymar...I'm not sure what you mean. Cesc and Neymar have started joint-third most matches for Barcelona this year. And Cesc leads the team in La Liga starts. Cesc's playing time is largely a result of Messi's injury issues but his play has merited it as well - he leads Europe in overall assists. He's not a natural goal scorer as Messi is...to expect that of him is unfair (heck, to expect anyone not named Cristiano to produce like Messi is unfair). That being said - 7 goals and 9 assists from 14 matches is a tally most any team would take. Neymar also did a superb job in the Confed Cup last summer. I understand that tournament is a somewhat B-level tournament, but Neymar showed he's willing to defend intensely and not just await play higher up the pitch, something many of the South American playmakers have been accused of. Those Guardian rankings are gimmicky more than anything (Hazard below Lampard? Really?). Take them with a grain of salt.
    Poor construction on my part. I was not suggesting that Cesc did not disserve the ranking, Steven has been all in for this guy for years, but rather that it was crazy that he doesn't start for Barcelona. (I don't get many Barcelona games, and do not scout for those that are on, so was unaware that he has been starting; also, embarrassingly, didn't know that Messi was hurt. I must have made a wrong turn; clearly don't belong among the heavy hitters.)

    In Neymar's case, there seems to be a certain awkwardness to his play that I do not associate with Barcelona. By that I mean that he spends a fair amount of time with the ball on occasion dancing, looking to create, when there is nothing there. This is as I've said on a small sampling. Also, I believe someone here pointed out that Neymar was being tentative because he was trying to figure out the place for his aggressive style with Messi on the other side of the pitch. Neymar's assent might portend a transition to a more Brazilian style of play as the great one around whom the clock turns loses a second or two each time the clock turns.

    My son, who is working out of Medellin as an investigatory journalist, see Steven Cohen www.beaconreader.com, wrote a wonderful piece on a game he attended between Medellin's top two teams. Actually, two stories in one: the first, a wickedly written story about his adventures through the city's streets, and then around and inside the stadium; the second, what to me reads as a pretty sophisticated storyline about the game itself and the state of Columbian soccer. For $5 a month, you too can read Steven's stuff--mostly on human rights, labor, environmental, and other socio/political issues in Columbia and other countries he might find himself in. I call this appeal, "So Steven Might Eat," Paid for the Guy Who Wants To Pay No More, Not That His Kid Would Let Him If He Felt Differently. Cheers

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