Crypto Conversation

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What is the downside of the futures-based ETF BITO that was just approved for trading? Are there risks there that a spot market ETF would rectify?

I agree that this is far too complicated for the average investor and making it simpler WITH the "controls" in place would make it a much more attractive investment IMO. I consider myself a decently advanced investor really and haven't taken the plunge yet, but have been considering opening up a Coinbase account and buying some BIT and ETH, but I keep not doing it...I think the vision of a "crypto index ETF" would be amazing.

I’m certainly no expert on ETF’s, but as I understand it, risks are about the same but the fees are much higher on the futures market ETF than they would be on a spot market ETF.

Grayscale Bitcoin Trust recently sued the SEC to approve a spot market Btc ETF in the US.
Fidelity just opened up a Btc spot ETF in Canada. Many other countries have approved them, it’s just a matter of time before the US gets there. We are still early in this asset class.

The big benefit of a spot BTC ETF would be convenience for financial advisors to easily purchase shares for existing clients and neither client or advisor would have to hold the BTC, the fund would.

IMO, I like the idea of buying, holding and securing the Bitcoin myself. I save on fees and control my own destiny.

It’s not as hard as it seems, but it is intimidating at first and takes time to understand the process.

My advice if anyone wants to get started. Set up a dedicated “crypto “bank account, then go to Coinbase or Gemini, set up the exchange account and link to your bank account. Then buy a small amount of Bitcoin. Let’s say $100.

Then buy a Ledger Nano S hardware wallet, (about $70), down load their app and set it up. It takes some time.

Transfer $10 btc from Coinbase/Gemini to your ledger wallet. After you understand that process, transfer another $50 btc. Then transfer the $50 btc back to Coinbase/Gemini, and then change it back to dollars and back to your bank account to understand the whole process.

Practice with small amounts. Once you are familiar with it all, keep the BTC offline in the Ledger hardware wallet, especially if you have a substantial amount, and hang on for the volatility ride.

Good luck!

[Bluedog]

I’m certainly no expert on ETF’s, but as I understand it, risks are about the same but the fees are much higher on the futures market ETF than they would be on a spot market ETF.

Grayscale Bitcoin Trust recently sued the SEC to approve a spot market Btc ETF in the US.
Fidelity just opened up a Btc spot ETF in Canada. Many other countries have approved them, it’s just a matter of time before the US gets there. We are still early in this asset class.

The big benefit of a spot BTC ETF would be convenience for financial advisors to easily purchase shares for existing clients and neither client or advisor would have to hold the BTC, the fund would.

IMO, I like the idea of buying, holding and securing the Bitcoin myself. I save on fees and control my own destiny.

It’s not as hard as it seems, but it is intimidating at first and takes time to understand the process.

My advice if anyone wants to get started. Set up a dedicated “crypto “bank account, then go to Coinbase or Gemini, set up the exchange account and link to your bank account. Then buy a small amount of Bitcoin. Let’s say $100.

Then buy a Ledger Nano S hardware wallet, (about $70), down load their app and set it up. It takes some time.

Transfer $10 btc from Coinbase/Gemini to your ledger wallet. After you understand that process, transfer another $50 btc. Then transfer the $50 btc back to Coinbase/Gemini, and then change it back to dollars and back to your bank account to understand the whole process.

Practice with small amounts. Once you are familiar with it all, keep the BTC offline in the Ledger hardware wallet, especially if you have a substantial amount, and hang on for the volatility ride.

Good luck!

It's somewhat analogous to holding gold coins vs. the GLD etf, although I recognize that is a PHYSICAL holding vs. bitcoin which is digital. But same idea. Thanks for your response.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

It's somewhat analogous to holding gold coins vs. the GLD etf, although I recognize that is a PHYSICAL holding vs. bitcoin which is digital. But same idea. Thanks for your response.

Right, gold is a good analogy. Digital is just easier to move and protect than gold.

I look at holding my key words myself, which is what allows my Bitcoin to be moved on the blockchain ledger book, as holding “physical” Bitcoin.

[thedukeman]

Wait, WHAT???

You’ve been on here extolling the virtues of crypto for seemingly forever and you “aren’t comfortable” with how to exit the investment if necessary?

Moving crypto at all can be scary if you hold the keys. Especially if you use cold storage, your crypto is secured from hacks but the risk of user error is much higher.

[Bluedog]

Right, gold is a good analogy. Digital is just easier to move and protect than gold.

I look at holding my key words myself, which is what allows my Bitcoin to be moved on the blockchain ledger book, as holding “physical” Bitcoin.

Moving crypto at all can be scary if you hold the keys. Especially if you use cold storage, your crypto is secured from hacks but the risk of user error is much higher.

What if you die? Honest question...I guess you have to "share" your information with at least one person.

Yes, I recall stories of someone in the UK willing to pay millions to a trash dump to dig up what he thought was papers that had his information but he couldn't access anymore...and his millions in bitcoin were thus totally inaccessible to him.

[thedukeman]

What if you die? Honest question...I guess you have to "share" your information with at least one person.

Yes, I recall stories of someone in the UK willing to pay millions to a trash dump to dig up what he thought was papers that had his information but he couldn't access anymore...and his millions in bitcoin were thus totally inaccessible to him.

If I die... my tiny stack of crypto is good as gone lol. I have all my seeds written in a journal that's kept in a disaster-proof box but I doubt my SO or family could figure it all out. At the moment it doesn't matter much for me but right now it's probably not ideal. My best guess/hope is someone creates a smart contract to allow you to transfer it conditioned upon your death or some other event that is registered with the blockchain. We have a long ways to go before peoples deaths are registered with a blockchain though.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What if you die? Honest question...I guess you have to "share" your information with at least one person.

Yes, I recall stories of someone in the UK willing to pay millions to a trash dump to dig up what he thought was papers that had his information but he couldn't access anymore...and his millions in bitcoin were thus totally inaccessible to him.

That’s a good question and just one of the many things you have to consider when you take on the responsibility of being your own custodian.

There are many Bitcoin’s lost forever from just this sort of issue…the key word holder passed away, naturally or accidentally.

If your keywords are lost, for any reason, you cannot move your Bitcoin on the network. Those satoshi’s are effectively lost forever. There is no Bitcoin CEO to call or customer support line for help. It’s a totally decentralized network.

I keep my keywords in a fire proof box inside a safety deposit box at my bank. Along with a full page of written instructions on how to access my crypto and what to do for my wife in case something happens to me, or my estate executor, if something happens to both of us.

I was sure to update my will too.

All these “complications “ are why it’s still early to own Bitcoin, and assets like Ethereum. Exchanges and apps like Robinhood are now making it easier to buy and custody crypto, with more ways being added all the time. But there are drawbacks and risks.
It’s a little complicated and scary to take the custody responsibility on your own, but worth it, IMO.

As the process gets safer, easier to own….and hopefully for US residents, can be FDIC insured when your bank can custody your Bitcoin for you…then the average person, anywhere in the world, will be able to buy Bitcoin and bank it with their local bank, hold or exchange it themselves as easy as using Venmo or Square.

The bigger thing is institutional and governmental buying of Bitcoin/ETH is coming, and soon. They are being held back now by regulations, tax clarity, custodial solutions and accounting procedures.

Estimates are that about 4% of Bitcoin is lost every year from deaths, accidents, transfer mistakes, and lost keywords.
Some estimates I’ve seen think there could be up to 4 million of the total supply of 21 million already lost forever.

Supply and demand economics 101 in play.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Moving crypto at all can be scary if you hold the keys. Especially if you use cold storage, your crypto is secured from hacks but the risk of user error is much higher.

You are so right. That’s why I practiced several times with small amounts before I moved a substantial amount to cold storage.
It was scary. Even now that I’ve gone through the process many times, it’s still scary. There is a lag time between leaving the exchange and showing up on your hardware wallet that puckers you up.

[LasVegas]

New articles out there in circulation that say the top 0.01% of bitcoin holders own 27% of the digital currency. Compared to the dollar which the top 1% control 30%. If bitcoin is king eventually, we are all done for it seems.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

New articles out there in circulation that say the top 0.01% of bitcoin holders own 27% of the digital currency. Compared to the dollar which the top 1% control 30%. If bitcoin is king eventually, we are all done for it seems.

Can’t find the link now but there was a response somewhere challenging those articles stating that the writer was only looking at the largest wallets and amounts, not considering that many were custodial exchange wallets that hold Bitcoin for multiple Bitcoin holders and institutional investors.

[thedukeman]

https://cointelegraph.com/news/samsu...or-smart-tvs\\

“With demand for NFTs on the rise, the need for a solution to today’s fragmented viewing and purchasing landscape has never been greater. In 2022, Samsung is introducing the world’s first TV screen-based NFT explorer and marketplace aggregator, a groundbreaking platform that lets you browse, purchase, and display your favorite art - all in one place.”


Samsung is not new to the NFT space:

Samsung has been actively investing in NFT and metaverse projects for a while now. In early November, The Sandbox (metaverse platform) successfully raised $93 million, with the participation of multiple companies, including Samsung Next (the venture capital arm of Samsung). The firm also participated in the investment round of Ready Player Me (a metaverse gaming platform) in late December.


TLDR: Most TVs in its 2022 lineup (e.g., Micro LED and NEO QLED displays) would have a non-fungible token (NFT) platform application, which users will be able to use “for discovering and trading digital artwork.”

EDIT: Today is also BTC's birthday. The first BTC was minted Jan 3 2009.

[thedukeman]

I think this is another great use case for NFT's. At the conclusion of his blockchain technology course, Dr. Lenz gave his students NFT's as certificates of completion. His reasoning was that ordinarily, your diploma/certificate depends on the responsiveness of a third party, like an office registrar. Additionally, you may have to pay a fee despite having already paid the expensive tuition required to obtain it. This way, you can provide proof of completion without depending on a third party (assuming they accept NFT's).

Interestingly, his article mentions he received the approval and help of Duke leaders and admin. I am jealous of the students who were able to receive NFT's from Duke. Also, I mentioned NFTs in an off-topic thread about what to do with my digital Duke basketball tickets. Reading this article gave me serious fomo for Duke not issuing this year's tickets in either physical form or NFTs. I do realize the NFTs were highly unlikely though lol.

[Skydog]

I think this is another great use case for NFT's. At the conclusion of his blockchain technology course, Dr. Lenz gave his students NFT's as certificates of completion. His reasoning was that ordinarily, your diploma/certificate depends on the responsiveness of a third party, like an office registrar. Additionally, you may have to pay a fee despite having already paid the expensive tuition required to obtain it. This way, you can provide proof of completion without depending on a third party (assuming they accept NFT's).

Interestingly, his article mentions he received the approval and help of Duke leaders and admin. I am jealous of the students who were able to receive NFT's from Duke. Also, I mentioned NFTs in an off-topic thread about what to do with my digital Duke basketball tickets. Reading this article gave me serious fomo for Duke not issuing this year's tickets in either physical form or NFTs. I do realize the NFTs were highly unlikely though lol.

I followed the links and saw the certificates- that’s pretty cool! The advantages of this approach to proof of certification are clear - non-tamperable, always directly available to certificate holder.

Well, *almost* always available. One of the downsides he mentioned is the NFT is forever inaccessible if the key is lost. To me that means blockchain could never replace current methods of record keeping, it can only serve as a supplementary record, created for convenience. Correct?

[thedukeman]

I followed the links and saw the certificates- that’s pretty cool! The advantages of this approach to proof of certification are clear - non-tamperable, always directly available to certificate holder.

Well, *almost* always available. One of the downsides he mentioned is the NFT is forever inaccessible if the key is lost. To me that means blockchain could never replace current methods of record keeping, it can only serve as a supplementary record, created for convenience. Correct?

I'd agree with you! Although even if you lose your keys, you can still see it was issued on the blockchain.

[Skydog]

I'd agree with you! Although even if you lose your keys, you can still see it was issued on the blockchain.

Any rando can look at the blockchain and, unlike with crypto coins, see who the certificates were issued to? (I’m a crypto newbie.)

[thedukeman]

Any rando can look at the blockchain and, unlike with crypto coins, see who the certificates were issued to? (I’m a crypto newbie.)

I don't own any NFT's so I'm not sure you can track the actual NFT's themselves. However, any rando who can identify the Wallet address Duke used to send the NFT's can see the transaction between the Duke address and the receiving addresses (the Duke students). Because this is public information Duke has posted, they could easily identify which student is who. So even if a student lost the keys to their wallet containing the NFT, they could still point to the transaction and say "look, at this day Duke issued NFTs and this NFT has my name on it." If the student was still asked to verify the receiving wallet address was in fact theirs, they could not prove it though if they no longer have the keys.

[Skydog]

.., Because this is public information Duke has posted, they could easily identify which student is who. ...

Then anyone checking credentials could have just looked at Duke’s posted info in the first place. I think this use case breaks down, but only because of the “lost keys problem.” If you can work around that then you may indeed have a better mousetrap.

[Kdogg]

I followed the links and saw the certificates- that’s pretty cool! The advantages of this approach to proof of certification are clear - non-tamperable, always directly available to certificate holder.

Well, *almost* always available. One of the downsides he mentioned is the NFT is forever inaccessible if the key is lost. To me that means blockchain could never replace current methods of record keeping, it can only serve as a supplementary record, created for convenience. Correct?

I'd agree with you! Although even if you lose your keys, you can still see it was issued on the blockchain.

Losing the keys just means the owner will never be able to transfer/sell it. It will still exist on the blockchain and as long as there is at least one copy on the IPFS network the visual certificate will be visible.

[snowdenscold]

Do NFT's and the like, particularly in regards to documentation and records, have the ability to hold-up long-term? As in, will stuff issued today be retained and easily accessed, say 30+ years from now?
Basically a next-level Digital Dark Age.

How do things get updated and transferred as the underlying technologies, protocols, platforms, etc. evolve or are replaced over time?

[thedukeman]

Then anyone checking credentials could have just looked at Duke’s posted info in the first place. I think this use case breaks down, but only because of the “lost keys problem.” If you can work around that then you may indeed have a better mousetrap.

That's true in this case only because Duke posted it because it is new. I doubt programs in the future will post every certificate of each student for each class completed. Again, the NFT is meant to supplement an office registrar or something similar.

Edit: I didn't realize you were the same person asking about randos looking at the blockchain. Now i'm thinking I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you talking about the blockchain, the NFT, or the social media posts of Duke?