Crypto Conversation

[OldPhiKap]

Governments cannot interfere with an internet-based currency?

I would not feel comfortable if I was in Iran right now about unfettered internet access.

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/21/ira...ns-mahsa-amini

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'm not trying to be a jerk - what is the magical property of Bitcoin that makes it impervious to political manipulation? That seems nearly impossible. Even if it's a truly independent currency, politicians can be pretty tricksy with how they can influence, well, pretty much anything.

Do you just mean because the quantity is fixed, so they can't "print more?" Because there seem to be many many other ways one can manipulate the value of a commodity.

Are you saying it isn't a commodity?

Full disclosure, I'm generally in favor of the actions politicians take to manipulate value - for the most part they seem to do things that protect it. I'm just curious as to where this basic belief comes from.

I'll take your answer off the air.

As noted before, Bitcoin doesn’t fit neatly into a box and has evolved over the past thirteen years.

Yes, it’s a commodity. It’s also a digital property. And it’s a currency. And it’s a base settlement layer for a payment rail system.

I recommend reading Satoshi Nakamoto’s original introduction of BTC in his white paper as a start.

And how Satoshi solved the Byzantine Generals' problem for a more detailed response than I can provide here.

As for political manipulations, yes, politicians know no bounds when it comes to manipulating currencies and markets.

But they can’t manipulate BTC, the core digital asset.

The BTC proof of work network assures that there is no necessity for a trusted third party, (like a state, government or bank, anyone), to maintain the absolute scarcity of the 21 million coins, and the accounting of those coins.

A quote from the white paper…

“Proof-of-work also solves the problem of determining representation in majority decision making. If the majority were based on one-IP-address-one-vote, it could be subverted by anyone able to allocate many IPs. Proof-of-work is essentially one-CPU-one-vote. The majority decision is represented by the longest chain, which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it. If a majority of CPU power is controlled by honest nodes, the honest chain will grow the fastest and outpace any competing chains.”

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Governments cannot interfere with an internet-based currency?

I would not feel comfortable if I was in Iran right now about unfettered internet access.

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/21/ira...ns-mahsa-amini

Sure, they can interfere with the internet, but they can’t change BTC no matter what they do.

This will not end well for the Iranian government over time. The people will not stand for it.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Governments cannot interfere with an internet-based currency?

I would not feel comfortable if I was in Iran right now about unfettered internet access.

https://www.axios.com/2022/09/21/ira...ns-mahsa-amini

I forgot to mention that there are alternatives possible for the use of BTC that does not involve using the internet.

Bitcoin is very resilient.

[Kdogg]

Sure, they can interfere with the internet, but they can’t change BTC no matter what they do.

This will not end well for the Iranian government over time. The people will not stand for it.

It's from Starship Troopers. I'm tagging it NSFW just in case.

Spoiler!

gep9n6107of61.jpg

Also disabling SMS is easier than disabling the internet. That "system" you linked to is dogdy as hell.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

It's from Starship Troopers. I'm tagging it NSFW just in case.

Spoiler!

gep9n6107of61.jpg

Also disabling SMS is easier than disabling the internet. That "system" you linked to is dogdy as hell.

Sure, shut down all sms phone service and see how that goes over.

There are “alternatives possible” to use BTC without internet is what I said.

It’s way early in the development of Bitcoin and how to use it.

[Kdogg]

Sure, shut down all sms phone service and see how that goes over.

Kashmir 2019. Because you don’t know it happens doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.

Also Bitcoin has been around 13 years. That‘s ancient in technology terms. For reference TikTok has been around for six years.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Kashmir 2019. Because you don’t know it happens doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.

Also Bitcoin has been around 13 years. That‘s ancient in technology terms. For reference TikTok has been around for six years.

Can you explain why you see Bitcoin as your “enemy “?

What properties are you against?

[Kdogg]

Can you explain why you see Bitcoin as your “enemy “?

What properties are you against?

I don't. Not a fan of the energy usage of course. I just don't see it as transformative. It's a spec asset. I think I've made that clear.

The image was in reference to Iran, how they see the protesters (the enemy) and how by disabling the internet/phones (the hand) they would prevent them from using Bitcoin. The Iran goal is not to control Bitcoin. It's to control access. That's all that is required.

[Skydog]

If you were arguing that bitcoin has promise for reasons x, y and z while acknowledging it had weaknesses a, b and c you would get much less pushback Wheat. But the endless and repetitive worship of bitcoin as mankind’s savior from poverty, evil governments, inflation, theft, coupled with your denial or hand waving away of it’s many serious issues around security, energy use, speculative value and so on makes you come across as a shill or devotee rather than an objective, rational proponent of crypto.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

If you were arguing that bitcoin has promise for reasons x, y and z while acknowledging it had weaknesses a, b and c you would get much less pushback Wheat. But the endless and repetitive worship of bitcoin as mankind’s savior from poverty, evil governments, inflation, theft, coupled with your denial or hand waving away of it’s many serious issues around security, energy use, speculative value and so on makes you come across as a shill or devotee rather than an objective, rational proponent of crypto.

I would love to be less repetitive, trust me, but I see the same misunderstandings about Bitcoin over and over again that needs to be challenged. I would welcome a break from the same discussions, too.

To be clear, I’ve never hand waved any serious issues of BTC.

I’ve patiently explained how it’s energy use is absolutely necessary and a net plus to strengthen energy grids, develop more sustainable renewables while also monetizing stranded, wasted energy.

I’ve discussed security issues head on many times in this thread, everything from POW to the difference between a cold and hot wallet.

I’ve also acknowledged the speculative trading, especially leverage trading, of this young digital asset, and yes, many times.

All as detailed as time allows.

So yea, I’m a Bitcoin proponent and see is a as big solver of many issues going forward, I make no apologies for that.

I’d love to discuss how to make better Lightning wallets. Or the daily growth of the Bitcoin infrastructure, etc…let’s make it happen.

[PackMan97]

I’ve patiently explained how it’s energy use is absolutely necessary and a net plus to strengthen energy grids, develop more sustainable renewables while also monetizing stranded, wasted energy.

Many of us, myself included, simply disagree that there are any positives to crypto's energy usage.

"stranded, wasted energy" is a new one to me.

[Duke Blue Lemur]

To be clear, I’ve never hand waved any serious issues of BTC.

I’ve patiently explained how it’s energy use is absolutely necessary and a net plus to strengthen energy grids, develop more sustainable renewables while also monetizing stranded, wasted energy.

Your views on the energy issues have been rebutted many times in this thread with little acknowledgment from you. Your second sentence is very much a hand wave.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Many of us, myself included, simply disagree that there are any positives to crypto's energy usage.

"stranded, wasted energy" is a new one to me.

I'm totally on your side and generally think that it is a waste of energy. But there are some cases where the energy is being produced and can be sold profitably to the crypto miners. If a hydro plant has a production capacity of X and is operating below capacity, then if the crypto miners use some of that otherwise unused capacity, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. But that is often not the case, and it is not a reason for the existence of crypto.

Meanwhile, a fairly smart, successful guy who knows a bit about finance named Jamie Dimon made it clear that he is not a fan of bitcoin. He is supportive of blockchain.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jamie...112527469.html

[Jeffrey]

Meanwhile, a fairly smart, successful guy who knows a bit about finance named Jamie Dimon made it clear that he is not a fan of bitcoin. He is supportive of blockchain.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jamie...112527469.html

Within the next three years, I predict Jamie (and a few of his peers) will be working with the US Treasury Department to create a digital USA coin (the world’s preferred digital coin).

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Within the next three years, I predict Jamie (and a few of his peers) will be working with the US Treasury Department to create a digital USA coin (the world’s preferred digital coin).

I'm not 100% familiar with his politics but I think I wish he would run for mayor of my fine city. I think at least one of his kids went to Duke - I believe I saw him do a zoom presentation via Duke during covid.

I also trust his opinions on Bitcoin a lot more than the writers for BitcoinsRCool.com

[Jeffrey]

I'm not 100% familiar with his politics but I think I wish he would run for mayor of my fine city. I think at least one of his kids went to Duke - I believe I saw him do a zoom presentation via Duke during covid.

I also trust his opinions on Bitcoin a lot more than the writers for BitcoinsRCool.com

Jamie leans left and has a Duke daughter. I think it’s more likely he will become Treasury Secretary than NYC Mayor. I doubt he would do it, but he would also be a great President of the New York Fed.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Your views on the energy issues have been rebutted many times in this thread with little acknowledgment from you. Your second sentence is very much a hand wave.

Who’s really doing the hand wave?

I’ve offered many detailed statistics and proven that even if Bitcoin were to disappear tomorrow there would be no measurable impact on world energy use, that energy grids can be strengthened with BTC use, and that BTC’s stranded energy usage, like gas flares or excess hydro energy in remote locations is growing. Also that more than 50% of BTC use is renewable.

I’ve also done my best to try to help those interested in understanding that the energy use is worth it for a world wide digital asset with unmatched security.

Often the only reply here is that BTC uses more energy than some small country so I don’t like it, without going deeper into the benefits and necessity of that energy use.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'm not 100% familiar with his politics but I think I wish he would run for mayor of my fine city. I think at least one of his kids went to Duke - I believe I saw him do a zoom presentation via Duke during covid.

I also trust his opinions on Bitcoin a lot more than the writers for BitcoinsRCool.com

“Watch what they do, not what they say.”

Ever thought much about his motives for railing against the threat of Bitcoin with regards to what a successfully adopted Bitcoin network might do to his, and his banks, power?

Remember JPM Coin? Next Step Is Programmable Money, Bank Exec Says

Programmable to do what? At whose direction? There are big questions.

Remember this?

JPMorgan to give all wealth clients access to crypto funds - Business Insider

Oh, just his wealthy clients to get access first on the limited supply of BTC.

If he really thinks Bitcoin is a “Ponzi Scheme” he’s a willing participant.

All these guys care about is control of the money and the power to enrich themselves.

[Jeffrey]

Same bank, different person….

Bad crypto news….

“JPMorgan Chase’s global head of payments, Takis Georgakopoulos, argues cryptocurrency has “a niche use case” and said the demand for cryptocurrencies as a payment method has seen a drastic decline in the past six months.”

https://stocks.apple.com/ATppnzTxUQFaHcXlPTCostQ