Respect for Quinn

[mattman91]

Cook Named to 2014 Cousy Award Watch List

I know here at DBR we think highly of this young man's talent, but it is about time Quinn started getting some national recognition. He had a 2.4-1 assist to turnover ratio last season and flew way under the radar in my opinion. Early reports are saying has significantly improved his "D" over the off-season, and I think he should really thrive with this years offense. Should be a fun player to keep an eye out for this season.

Other than Marcus Smart, I don't know of any other point that is on another talent level, and has proven himself at the college level.

Other natable names on the list are Marcus Paige, UNC (lol), Aaron Craft, Ohio State (LOL), Tyler Ennis, Syracuse, and Andrew Harrison, Kentucky.

[Edouble]

Cook Named to 2014 Cousy Award Watch List

I know here at DBR we think highly of this young man's talent, but it is about time Quinn started getting some national recognition. He had a 2.4-1 assist to turnover ratio last season and flew way under the radar in my opinion. Early reports are saying has significantly improved his "D" over the off-season, and I think he should really thrive with this years offense. Should be a fun player to keep an eye out for this season.

Other than Marcus Smart, I don't know of any other point that is on another talent level, and has proven himself at the college level.

Other natable names on the list are Marcus Paige, UNC (lol), Aaron Craft, Ohio State (LOL), Tyler Ennis, Syracuse, and Andrew Harrison, Kentucky.

Aaron Craft is awesome.

Go Quinn!!!

[Duvall]

Aaron Craft is awesome.

Is he? Craft is a pretty good defender, but he can't shoot a lick from 2 or 3.

[mr. synellinden]

Is he? Craft is a pretty good defender, but he can't shoot a lick from 2 or 3.

Iowa St. disagrees.

[Duvall]

Iowa St. disagrees.

Wichita State wouldn't.

The stats say what the stats say, and they say that Craft can't shoot.

[Kedsy]

Is he? Craft is a pretty good defender, but he can't shoot a lick from 2 or 3.

Comparing eFG% and True Shooting Pct:

eFG%
------
Quinn Cook:
freshman: 46.5%; sophomore: 49.1%

Aaron Craft:
freshman: 53.5%; sophomore: 55.0%; junior: 46.1%

True Shooting Pct
-----------------
Quinn Cook:
freshman: 52.4%; sophomore: 52.9%

Aaron Craft:
freshman: 57.8%; sophomore: 59.2%; junior: 51.2%


Looking at these stats, it's hard to say that Quinn is a better shooter than Craft, even though he was slightly better last season.

[mattman91]

Aaron Craft is awesome.

Go Quinn!!!

In my opinion, he is overrated. I just hate how the media drools all over him.

[Duvall]

Looking at these stats, it's hard to say that Quinn is a better shooter than Craft, even though he was slightly better last season.

Cook could improve his shooting dramatically by taking far fewer 2-pt jumpers, at which he was dreadful last year. I'm not sure what Craft could do, since layups have at times proven challenging for him.

[Kedsy]

Cook could improve his shooting dramatically by taking far fewer 2-pt jumpers, at which he was dreadful last year. I'm not sure what Craft could do, since layups have at times proven challenging for him.

2-point FG% (2012-13)
-------------------
Seth Curry: 49.2%
Ryan Kelly: 47.3%
Aaron Craft: 46.6%
Rasheed Sulaimon: 46.1%
Josh Hairston: 45.6%
Tyler Thornton: 45.5%
Quinn Cook: 43.0%

I'm not saying Craft is a great shooter, but he's not nearly as bad as you're setting him up to be.

[Duvall]

2-point FG% (2012-13)
-------------------
Seth Curry: 49.2%
Ryan Kelly: 47.3%
Aaron Craft: 46.6%
Rasheed Sulaimon: 46.1%
Josh Hairston: 45.6%
Tyler Thornton: 45.5%
Quinn Cook: 43.0%

I'm not saying Craft is a great shooter, but he's not nearly as bad as you're setting him up to be.

Except that those other players are decent-to-great from 3. You have to be able to shoot from *somewhere.*

I will acknowledge that Craft is a better shooter than Josh Hairston. So there's that.

[vick]

I like Cook, but I think Craft was the better player last year. Even if you just look at basic statistics, they are very close:

Craft: 10.0 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1.9 TOV/G
Cook: 11.7 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 5.3 APG, 2.2 TOV/G

Cook comes out a little bit better there, but barely. Their efficiency number are also pretty similar, with Cook 109.1 ORTG, Craft 106.5 with similar usage--the fact that Craft was far more prolific at getting to the line helps him. So I think Cook could legitimately be called the better player on offense last year, but only by a little bit. But given that Craft was the better defensive player by a huge margin, I think most neutral observers would have called Craft the better player, and most player-rating systems I'm aware of that try to incorporate defense (ASPM, Value-Add, Win Shares, etc.) agree--heck even PER favored Craft, if only barely. Might Cook be better than Craft this year? Certainly. Is it laughable to put Craft above Cook? I think definitely not.

[FerryFor50]

In my opinion, he is overrated. I just hate how the media drools all over him.

Craft is *exactly* the type of player that, if wearing a Duke uniform, would be universally hated.

[mattman91]

Craft is *exactly* the type of player that, if wearing a Duke uniform, would be universally hated.

I actually agree...he fits the discription. I guess now it is easy to see why so many people hate us

As for Quinn...I REALLY think he is gonna have a superb year. We will play at a fast tempo, and have the players that can showcase his abilities as a point guard.

[ChillinDuke]

Comparing eFG% and True Shooting Pct:

eFG%
------
Quinn Cook:
freshman: 46.5%; sophomore: 49.1%

Aaron Craft:
freshman: 53.5%; sophomore: 55.0%; junior: 46.1%

True Shooting Pct
-----------------
Quinn Cook:
freshman: 52.4%; sophomore: 52.9%

Aaron Craft:
freshman: 57.8%; sophomore: 59.2%; junior: 51.2%


Looking at these stats, it's hard to say that Quinn is a better shooter than Craft, even though he was slightly better last season.

I admit I don't know what these advanced stats mean completely. Feel free to explain (again). Actually, don't explain - it's my fault that I'm lazy.

But I don't like to just ignore "normal" stats, personally - and those look a bit different:

Cook vs Craft:

Career (Cook 2 years; Craft 3 years)

FGs: 198/479 (41.3%) vs 327/719 (45.5%)
3pt: 69/196 (35.2%) vs 76/223 (34.1%)
FTs: 102/122 (83.6%) vs 242/329 (73.6%)

Cook is slightly better at the 3 and much better at FTs. Craft has a better overall FG% (does he get a lot of layups?). And this is before Cook has played his junior season, which by reasonable expectation, would improve these numbers. Listen, Craft is a good overall player - no taking that away from him. But I think Quinn Cook will be regarded as the better shooter when their respective college careers are over. And I don't think it will be overly close.

- Chillin

[FerryFor50]

I admit I don't know what these advanced stats mean completely. Feel free to explain (again). Actually, don't explain - it's my fault that I'm lazy.

But I don't like to just ignore "normal" stats, personally - and those look a bit different:

Cook vs Craft:

Career (Cook 2 years; Craft 3 years)

FGs: 198/479 (41.3%) vs 327/719 (45.5%)
3pt: 69/196 (35.2%) vs 76/223 (34.1%)
FTs: 102/122 (83.6%) vs 242/329 (73.6%)

Cook is slightly better at the 3 and much better at FTs. Craft has a better overall FG% (does he get a lot of layups?). And this is before Cook has played his junior season, which by reasonable expectation, would improve these numbers. Listen, Craft is a good overall player - no taking that away from him. But I think Quinn Cook will be regarded as the better shooter when their respective college careers are over. And I don't think it will be overly close.

- Chillin

eFG% and true shooting % simply try to break down normal FG% numbers, since not all shots are created equal.

For example, if a players shoots 300 three pointers (harder than a layup) and only 20 layups, their eFG% would be higher than a player that shot 300 layups and 20 three pointers, even if the FG% were identical.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html

eFG%
Effective Field Goal Percentage; the formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).

TS%
True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * TSA). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

[ChillinDuke]

eFG% and true shooting % simply try to break down normal FG% numbers, since not all shots are created equal.

For example, if a players shoots 300 three pointers (harder than a layup) and only 20 layups, their eFG% would be higher than a player that shot 300 layups and 20 three pointers, even if the FG% were identical.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html

eFG%
Effective Field Goal Percentage; the formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).

TS%
True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * TSA). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

Appreciate you breaking that down for me. I'll try (again) to remember this going forward.

So as I look at this, does this mean that Craft gets more layups? How else would his TS% be higher than cook while being worse at both three pointers and free throws? (Note: I guess he was actually worse last year at TS%.)

To me, the strongest piece of evidence is Sophomore Quinn Cook was considerably better at both three pointers and free throws than Junior Aaron Craft. Hence, a better shooter. Not a better scorer (although I'd probably still argue Quinn here), not a better player (I would probably argue Junior Craft > Sophomore Cook here).

If you want to talk about who the better player is - that becomes a real tough debate, I reckon. But this one, to me, is not overly complicated.

- Chillin

[FerryFor50]

Appreciate you breaking that down for me. I'll try (again) to remember this going forward.

So as I look at this, does this mean that Craft gets more layups? How else would his TS% be higher than cook while being worse at both three pointers and free throws? (Note: I guess he was actually worse last year at TS%.)

To me, the strongest piece of evidence is Sophomore Quinn Cook was considerably better at both three pointers and free throws than Junior Aaron Craft. Hence, a better shooter. Not a better scorer (although I'd probably still argue Quinn here), not a better player (I would probably argue Junior Craft > Sophomore Cook here).

If you want to talk about who the better player is - that becomes a real tough debate, I reckon. But this one, to me, is not overly complicated.

- Chillin

What the stats don't really take into account are uncontested shots. Did Aaron Craft shoot more open jumpers than Quinn Cook? It's hard to say who the "better shooter" is when the stats are so close overall. I'd argue that Craft got more open looks his freshman and sophomore years and then when defenses started guarding him more, he made fewer shots.

I think the point is that, while Cook may be a better shooter, the stats don't really back up the perception.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Quinn is not the best player on this year, but he one of the most tenured on this extremely young team. Last year, he was one of our most important players during the first half of the season, but didn't remain as consistent throughout. This year, the team will look to Quinn for a steady hand, exceptional on-the-ball defense, strong passing, and leadership. If he scores 12+ a game, that's pure gravy.

I have been stating on DBR that Rasheed is our most important player, but I'm beginning to think that it's Quinn. I think we will go as far as Quinn takes us.

[mattman91]

Quinn is not the best player on this year, but he one of the most tenured on this extremely young team. Last year, he was one of our most important players during the first half of the season, but didn't remain as consistent throughout. This year, the team will look to Quinn for a steady hand, exceptional on-the-ball defense, strong passing, and leadership. If he scores 12+ a game, that's pure gravy.

I have been stating on DBR that Rasheed is our most important player, but I'm beginning to think that it's Quinn. I think we will go as far as Quinn takes us.

Ditto. Having a team full of athletes and scorers does you no good when you don't have a good point guard...just ask the 2012 Kentucky Wildcats.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ditto. Having a team full of athletes and scorers does you no good when you don't have a good point guard...just ask the 2012 Kentucky Wildcats.

I felt that poor Ryan Harrow was the only likable asset on that team. Hearing him cry during the last game when they were on the bubble for getting into the tournament made me hate Calipari even more.