The Walking Dead

[ncexnyc]

I'm not sure why people are saying Terminus is finished. We had two pretty interesting closing scenes. I could be wrong, but it seemed that Gareth was now in a shipping container, just as they were when they had that opening scene and it seemed like the crazies were back in charge. I also thought Morgan took interest in the sign being defaced and there seemed to be some type of carving on the tree he appeared to comprehend. I also thought Gareth said something along the lines of he'll be back.

Aside from all of this, I agree this was an awesome episode. I'm glad to see they explained how a herd wasn't draw to Terminus, as I found it very strange at the end of last season. Nice to see the producers of the show paying attention to things like this. That was one fantastic walker that Carole took down at the start of this episode.

[JNort]

The show sorta tried to make the actions of the Terminus folks seem at least a little bit justified. If we had seen people starving to death a bit more and seen how terribly desperate they had become, in addition to seeing them being brutalized by folks they intended to help, it might have even made Gareth a tiny bit redeemable. I would not have minded having him eventually join our group. But, I am not nearly there yet and I can't even begin to see Rick coming face-to-face with him and allowing him to live. Heck, same with Daryl and Glenn. Once you have your head on top of that trough, I don't think you could ever forgive Gareth.

I do agree that Gareth didn't seem to be nearly as insane as The Governor. I mean, Gareth didn't keep his zombified daughter chained up in his bedroom, he just eats people in a neat, orderly fashion. Still, vengeance can do a lot to people and he will certainly be seeking some kind of vengeance. I wonder if he will even know that Rick's people are the ones who blew open the walls around Terminus?

A quick question -- what caused the gunfire that drew the zombies (and Carol) to Terminus? Was that supposedly from the "roundup" of Rick and the others? I got the impression everyone had been in the train car for at least several hours, if not a day or two, by the time the events of the episode began, but maybe it was almost immediate. I hope Rick learned a lesson from all this and will always leave someone outside when they go inside an unfamiliar place. Having a person armed and watching (the way Carol accidentally was) is a safe hedge of your bets when entering a place like Terminus.

As an aside, as I saw our group walking away from Terminus at the end of the episode, it occurred to me how little the show deals with the problems of fresh water and food. We see Daryl and others hunting some of the time, but they are now a wandering group of about 20 people. You need about a half a gallon of water (or other water-based liquids) per day, more than that if you are exerting yourself a lot, which they are. Food is less necessary, but even if Daryl shot a deer, that would probably only feed the group for a couple days (to say nothing of spoilage without refrigeration). My point is that I hope the show does not just leave our heroes wandering amidst the trees for a long time. They need to get back to moderately civilized areas where canned foods and potable water should still be somewhat easier to find than in the wild... but also where they are bound to find more zombies.

-Jason "anyone else think Carol shooting a bottle rocket at the gas tank was just an impossible shot? Of course, the resulting zombie flambe was worth it!" Evans

I agree unless they are stating near a water source the whole time (a river of some sort) and the show just doesn't inform us. One small nitpick though. One deer could easily feed that group. 3 to 4 deer a year can supply a family of 5 all year without having to go buy more beef at the grocery store.

[bjornolf]

True, but they don't have freezers.

[FerryFor50]

I'm not sure why people are saying Terminus is finished. We had two pretty interesting closing scenes. I could be wrong, but it seemed that Gareth was now in a shipping container, just as they were when they had that opening scene and it seemed like the crazies were back in charge. I also thought Morgan took interest in the sign being defaced and there seemed to be some type of carving on the tree he appeared to comprehend. I also thought Gareth said something along the lines of he'll be back.

Aside from all of this, I agree this was an awesome episode. I'm glad to see they explained how a herd wasn't draw to Terminus, as I found it very strange at the end of last season. Nice to see the producers of the show paying attention to things like this. That was one fantastic walker that Carole took down at the start of this episode.

Probably because of the same reasons the prison is done - the gates are down and the place is overrun by walkers.

Gareth is in a container but has also been shot. It's unclear where he was shot... I doubt they'll be able to get Terminus in working order to keep drawing people in again. At best, they could perhaps live in a secluded, locked in area. But that remains to be seen. I think Gareth ends up hunting the group with his remaining followers.

As for where it goes from here, they have quite an opening to try to live up to. It's going to be a letdown the next couple of episodes I think. They likely will cross paths with Morgan again and I think he'll join the group.

I think the prevailing conflict will be between the group deciding on how to survive - new Rick's way (which is a whole lot more like Shane now) or old Rick's way (where they try to cling to their humanity as much as they can). It will also be interesting to see the dynamic between Rick/Carol/Daryl/Tyreese due to the tension from the prison. I suspect we'll start seeing some of the group getting killed off by mid-season as well.

As for DC, I don't think the scientist knows anything about a cure (his explanation was weak at best) and I think the group will begin to sniff that out.

Hopefully they can keep the quality up.

[JasonEvans]

I I could be wrong, but it seemed that Gareth was now in a shipping container, just as they were when they had that opening scene and it seemed like the crazies were back in charge.

Gareth is in a container but has also been shot. It's unclear where he was shot... .

Ummm, I hate to break it to you guys, but that final scene with Gareth was a flashback to the earlier Terminus. It was the moment Gareth vows to his followers that they will escape and that they will never let themselves become victims ever again. As he says, they are not longer going to be the cattle.

You could tell it was a flashback because it said "Then" before the scene started and because the woman who is tossed back into the container after being raped was Mary, who clearly died at the hands of many walkers when Carol let walkers into the candle room.

-Jason "we have not see Gareth post being shot, but everyone is convinced he is still alive. Who knows, maybe like The Governor, we will get a couple Gareth-centric episodes before he finds Rick and attacks" Evans

[FerryFor50]

Ummm, I hate to break it to you guys, but that final scene with Gareth was a flashback to the earlier Terminus. It was the moment Gareth vows to his followers that they will escape and that they will never let themselves become victims ever again. As he says, they are not longer going to be the cattle.

You could tell it was a flashback because it said "Then" before the scene started and because the woman who is tossed back into the container after being raped was Mary, who clearly died at the hands of many walkers when Carol let walkers into the candle room.

-Jason "we have not see Gareth post being shot, but everyone is convinced he is still alive. Who knows, maybe like The Governor, we will get a couple Gareth-centric episodes before he finds Rick and attacks" Evans

Yea that's right. I think I thought I might have missed that he ended up back in a train car.

I think we'll see some Gareth "then and now" episodes as well, with the same attempt to build him up as a sympathetic character, like they tried with the Governor, but failed IMO. That guy was the worst.

[wilson]

Yea that's right. I think I thought I might have missed that he ended up back in a train car.

I think we'll see some Gareth "then and now" episodes as well, with the same attempt to build him up as a sympathetic character, like they tried with the Governor, but failed IMO. That guy was the worst.

Agreed on both counts. I think part of the point of these storylines is to demonstrate that people who may once have possessed (at least partially) solid character traits descend into madness, tyranny, and bloodthirstiness as a result of the apocalypse. Gareth seems to fit that mold so far.

[budwom]

some clarification (perhaps too strong a word) on some of this stuff on the Talking Dead.

[fuse]

some clarification (perhaps too strong a word) on some of this stuff on the Talking Dead.

I'm curious for people's opinions on the Talking Dead.
I've watched a couple, and I'm torn.
I let my curiosity get the best of me- I'd prefer that the show stands enough on its own that a second hour long commentary is not necessary. The flip side is it is kind of cool to hear from the show's creators.

I've not done the Walking Dead second screen thing, either.

Deep down I guess I really want to know how Ryan Seacrest, Tom Bergeron, and Chris Hardwick get these "non-job" jobs. Pretty sweet gigs :-)

[moonpie23]

to me, imho, the TALKING DEAD is the equivalent of your wife's bridge club discussing the final four...

[budwom]

i think the value of the Talking Dead is pretty much a function of the guests. As such, it ranges from being insightful and clever to being downright useless.
I thought this last one was middling, Conan O'Brien being more interested in entertaining (i.e. trying to get laughs) than in discussion.

In Memoriam, however, is sweet.

[JasonEvans]

some clarification (perhaps too strong a word) on some of this stuff on the Talking Dead.

Can you clarify on their clarification?

[JasonEvans]

I think we'll see some Gareth "then and now" episodes as well, with the same attempt to build him up as a sympathetic character, like they tried with the Governor, but failed IMO. That guy was the worst.

I don't really think the 2-episode Governor sidetrack last season was to "build him up as a sympathetic character." I mean, his post-Woodbury life was rough for a bit and he seemed like a good guy when he was helping Meaghan, Lilly, and Tara but by the very next episode he was plotting and murdering folks to take over his new group. I don't think those episodes were supposed to make us sympathize more with The governor as much as there were merely there to show how he got a tank and a new set of "followers" for the attack on the prison.

I could see Gareth being portrayed in a somewhat more favorable light. While cannibalism is horrible, we now know that Terminus was originally intended as a place of safety and refuge. Gareth and his people were somewhat forced into treating strangers with mistrust. Like I said earlier, if we got a few scenes of people starving to death, you might even be able to make cannibalism seem like a somewhat reasonable choice. That said, I don't think the show will go that direction. I think Gareth will be primarily a vengeful character who hunts down our heroes and probably kills a few popular characters I could see Carol, Sasha, Tyrese, Bob, Tara, and Morgan (and Beth, once they get her back and once she and Daryl fall for each other) all being in serious death danger the first half of this season.

-Jason "I am eager to see if Morgan is sane again or still crazy -- probably a little bit of both" Evans

[FerryFor50]

American Horror Story actress joining The Walking Dead in season 5

Wonder what her role will be... perhaps love interest for Rick?

While specific details about Breckenridge's character are being kept under wraps, the casting breakdown described the role of "Samantha" as an attractive, strong, smart, charming and articulate woman with a vulnerable side. She's a mother with a bohemian spirit, and a talented artist. AMC declined comment other than to say the casting breakdown — and character name — may both likely be a placeholder.

Maybe she reels in Rick's brutality and brings him back from the brink?

[moonpie23]

American Horror Story actress joining The Walking Dead in season 5

Wonder what her role will be... perhaps love interest for Rick?



Maybe she reels in Rick's brutality and brings him back from the brink?

i hope not...i want to see Rick go scorched earth on those folks...

[JasonEvans]

i hope not...i want to see Rick go scorched earth on those folks...

Who? The Terminus people? I think he believes them all to be dead. They are in his past. I would bet that no more than a couple of them survived anyway.

-Jason

[mattman91]

That was tough to watch, I was eating ribs during that last scene #bobbq

[JasonEvans]

I think Gareth will be primarily a vengeful character who hunts down our heroes and probably kills a few popular characters I could see Carol, Sasha, Tyrese, Bob, Tara, and Morgan (and Beth, once they get her back and once she and Daryl fall for each other) all being in serious death danger the first half of this season.

Well, that didn't take long...

I don't read the comics, but there is a band of cannibals in the comics called The Hunters. It is pretty clear that Gareth and the other Terminus survivors are now that group. But, I think the TV show producers know they have to be careful not to follow the comics too closely (for example, Andrea is still alive in the comics and is Rick's lover) so I don't expect Gareth's Hunters to follow the same storyline as the comic book ones. That said, it is worth noting that, in the comics, Rick's group encounters The Hunters shortly after taking up residence at Gabriel's church.

Interesting to note that Bob sure seemed upset about something when he was captured. I really thought he had been bitten in the water-assault on the food bank but they made no reference to that in the episode. But, clearly, something was up with him just before he became the BobBQ. I wonder if The Hunters just ate "infected" meat and what effect it might have on them.

-Jason "I expect they will keep Bob alive for a couple more episodes, but he can't survive long-term with only one leg... can he?" Evans

[FerryFor50]

Well, that didn't take long...

I don't read the comics, but there is a band of cannibals in the comics called The Hunters. It is pretty clear that Gareth and the other Terminus survivors are now that group. But, I think the TV show producers know they have to be careful not to follow the comics too closely (for example, Andrea is still alive in the comics and is Rick's lover) so I don't expect Gareth's Hunters to follow the same storyline as the comic book ones. That said, it is worth noting that, in the comics, Rick's group encounters The Hunters shortly after taking up residence at Gabriel's church.

Interesting to note that Bob sure seemed upset about something when he was captured. I really thought he had been bitten in the water-assault on the food bank but they made no reference to that in the episode. But, clearly, something was up with him just before he became the BobBQ. I wonder if The Hunters just ate "infected" meat and what effect it might have on them.

-Jason "I expect they will keep Bob alive for a couple more episodes, but he can't survive long-term with only one leg... can he?" Evans

This season has started off very strong. I also wanna take credit for the Gareth call:

I think the group is going to learn that they should have followed Rick's instincts at the end rather than moving on.

And Bob even alluded to it while they were on their own hunt to the Food Bank, when he referred to Rick's decision. Apropos that he ended up as the first victim, solidifying the notion that you don't survive by simply "being human."

I got the same impression re: Bob being upset in the graveyard.

One thing that drives me batty about the show is, despite all of the bad crap that happens to the group, they STILL don't seem to "get it." Rick even spelled it out for Carl - YOU ARE NEVER SAFE.

With that sort of thing in mind, you don't:

a) jump into a flooded basement where you can't see what might be underwater. Because, guess what? The walkers probably don't drown. And probably could gnaw at your ankles while you wade around.
b) Don't leave the group. At night. In a graveyard. I like Bob, but he broke the simplest of horror tenets. He got what was coming to him,

As for surviving on one leg, recall they amputated Herschel's leg and he lived right on up until his head got amputated. So it's possible.

One thing's for sure - they cleared that "Gareth might not be that bad of a guy" thing right up. It's bad manners to eat in front of your guests...

[ncexnyc]

Sure glad we're done with Terminus. Oh, wait a minute the site is left in tatters, but we've got Gareth and a crew still roaming around, so actually we now have the Terminus road show.

I agree, Bob seemed to be acting somewhat strange after the groups chow down. I thought he may have been bitten as well, but I recall early on a group member getting infected and they turned fairly fast. I believe they left the person on the side of the road against a tree. I could have been around the time they were going to the CDC.

Yes, walkers can't drown. We saw that when the Governor took over that one group and dumped the chained body of one of his victims in the lake.

Another mysterious tree carving. What's there connection to Morgan?