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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    As for the ricin? Got to be for either Lydia or himself.
    I have heard this before in other other places, and I don't get it (no offense). From what I understand, ricin does not have an immediate effect. We're talking a week or so in the hospital with your internal organs going through a meat grinder. That ain't fun, and I can think of several more quick/painless avenues to suicide.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77devil View Post
    As Tommy notes, Hank and Gomie should be dead already. If Hanks survives, it would be a highly contrived storyline. I found the beginning of the ending intense, but once the shooting started it became silly.

    I'm convinced that Hank dies otherwise Walt is not having breakfast in a restaurant and buying a gun on his 52nd birthday. I think your first thought, however, is correct.
    Yeah, if Hank survives with his brain intact and is not somebody's prisoner or something -- meaning he can still operate as a cop -- then Walt is toast, or at least in custody, and won't be going to New Hampshire and buying machine guns next year. The only way Walt is not in custody is if Hank is dead or otherwise incapacitated, because he's the only one who has the goods on Walt. So I'm afraid it's almost going to have to be curtains for Agent Shrader.

    This was of course obvious the minute Hank not only delayed getting out of there with his captive and transporting Walt to the station for booking (when we knew Uncle Jack and his lowlifes were en route) but in particular when Hank had that call with Marie, to the effect of "I love you. I feel better now. I won't be coming home for awhile etc."

    Unless of course Gilligan finds some way to flip the whole thing, shock us all, and does so in a way that none of us thought to see coming, but that in hindsight makes total sense. Which is what will probably happen . . .

  3. #63
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    Setting aside the storm trooper level shooting by the group that took down Declan's crew, one way hank and Gomie get out of this is if the reservation cops show up.

  4. #64
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    One would've thought Hank and Gomie would call for major DEA backup...yeah, maybe no cell coverage, but the DEA guys have lots of nice radios.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    One would've thought Hank and Gomie would call for major DEA backup...yeah, maybe no cell coverage, but the DEA guys have lots of nice radios.
    Remember that this operation was a rogue sting -- it's doubtful the DEA would be in a position to help, even if one of them could free up a hand long enough to make a call. It also doesn't seem like they called for backup before the bust. Remember Hank said he'd "call in a team" to search for the money.

    My guess is that there is a kidnapping involved here, and one of Gomie or Hank lives most of the way through the next episode. We'll see.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    Remember that this operation was a rogue sting -- it's doubtful the DEA would be in a position to help, even if one of them could free up a hand long enough to make a call. It also doesn't seem like they called for backup before the bust. Remember Hank said he'd "call in a team" to search for the money.

    My guess is that there is a kidnapping involved here, and one of Gomie or Hank lives most of the way through the next episode. We'll see.
    Agreed with most everything here. The story established there WAS cell coverage because Hank called Marie. Nobody in the DEA is coming because they're completely in the dark. That's the way Hank wanted it until he had it all tied up with a neat little bow-- the only way he was going to get out of this thing with his self-image intact.

    Likewise, the story established that neither the reservation cops, nor the DEA, had been called at the time of the confrontation. Hank and Gomie are on their own.

    Judging from the gunfire, Hank and Gomez should be toast. I'm going to give BB the benefit of the doubt because it makes sense that Vince Gilligan wanted the outcome to be in doubt at the end of the episode, but there's simply no way Hank and Gomie survived that level of gun fire out in the open. Heck, in the real world, that level of gunfire would probably get Jesse and Walt as well.

    I agree with those that say Hank is dead. The brains in the trash. That loaded speech with Marie. The insane gunfire. Total, unfair tease if he escapes.

    And to get a little meta, I also think Hank/Gomie are dead because otherwise Walt's cash is gone. (Jesse has other fish to fry-- getting Walt.) I don't buy that Walt's going to "start over." The cash is a central, driving fact of the remaining story.

    Of further note, the story has also established that the Aryans know EXACTLY where the money is. All they need is the particulars of why the confrontation took place at THIS location instead of at Brock/Andrea's house.

    Speaking of poisoning, I'm still completely confused about who the ricin is for. As far as I can guess from the timeline, there's a HUGE lapse between now and when Walt gets the machine gun-- during which time, Walt's family leaves their home in some sort of scandalous way and Walter grows a serious head of hair.

    I was intrigued that Walt chickened out on having the Aryans save him, out of a desire to spare Hank. (Although the Aryans arrived anyway.) It appears that Walter is not Scarface yet. Of course, it's not Scarface until the crazy man drops his face into the cocaine.

    Just 3 more episodes.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    Agreed with most everything here. The story established there WAS cell coverage because Hank called Marie. Nobody in the DEA is coming because they're completely in the dark. That's the way Hank wanted it until he had it all tied up with a neat little bow-- the only way he was going to get out of this thing with his self-image intact.

    Likewise, the story established that neither the reservation cops, nor the DEA, had been called at the time of the confrontation. Hank and Gomie are on their own.

    Judging from the gunfire, Hank and Gomez should be toast. I'm going to give BB the benefit of the doubt because it makes sense that Vince Gilligan wanted the outcome to be in doubt at the end of the episode, but there's simply no way Hank and Gomie survived that level of gun fire out in the open. Heck, in the real world, that level of gunfire would probably get Jesse and Walt as well.

    I agree with those that say Hank is dead. The brains in the trash. That loaded speech with Marie. The insane gunfire. Total, unfair tease if he escapes.

    And to get a little meta, I also think Hank/Gomie are dead because otherwise Walt's cash is gone. (Jesse has other fish to fry-- getting Walt.) I don't buy that Walt's going to "start over." The cash is a central, driving fact of the remaining story.

    Of further note, the story has also established that the Aryans know EXACTLY where the money is. All they need is the particulars of why the confrontation took place at THIS location instead of at Brock/Andrea's house.

    Speaking of poisoning, I'm still completely confused about who the ricin is for. As far as I can guess from the timeline, there's a HUGE lapse between now and when Walt gets the machine gun-- during which time, Walt's family leaves their home in some sort of scandalous way and Walter grows a serious head of hair.

    I was intrigued that Walt chickened out on having the Aryans save him, out of a desire to spare Hank. (Although the Aryans arrived anyway.) It appears that Walter is not Scarface yet. Of course, it's not Scarface until the crazy man drops his face into the cocaine.

    Just 3 more episodes.
    Do the Nazis know there is cash buried there? I feel like they're not as interested in cash as they would be in Walt's formula. Perhaps they hold it hostage until he cooks for them, once they discover that the cash is there. All they know is that Jesse is supposed to be there, which of course he is.

    I'd say it becomes Scarface when Walt takes his little friend from the trunk and rolls through the Nazis' compound Grand Theft Auto style.

    I think Hank and Gomez are toast. Marie becomes a wild card if her husband is dead and her criminal brother-in-law is still out there.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dev11 View Post
    Do the Nazis know there is cash buried there? I feel like they're not as interested in cash as they would be in Walt's formula. Perhaps they hold it hostage until he cooks for them, once they discover that the cash is there. All they know is that Jesse is supposed to be there, which of course he is.

    I'd say it becomes Scarface when Walt takes his little friend from the trunk and rolls through the Nazis' compound Grand Theft Auto style.

    I think Hank and Gomez are toast. Marie becomes a wild card if her husband is dead and her criminal brother-in-law is still out there.
    How long has it been since Walt buried the barrels? surely there will still be evidence of a recent burial there. I'm sure the nazis will figure out that something is up in this spot, or will interogate hank or gomez to find out what. It's not like either would be inclined to protect walt's money for him. There's no way the nazis wouldn't be interested in the money. Why else do you think they're in the meth business to begin with?

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    I was intrigued that Walt chickened out on having the Aryans save him, out of a desire to spare Hank. (Although the Aryans arrived anyway.) It appears that Walter is not Scarface yet.
    Very intriguing indeed. I think Walt was still acting somewhat out of self-interest.
    (1) No telling how the Nazis would react once they found out the DEA was involved. Kill all witnesses at that point?
    (2) Walt couldn't be 100% certain that Hank and Gomie hadn't involved the rest of the DEA yet. If they had, Walt would have had to begin a life on the lam as a cop/brother killer (assuming the Nazis would even win).
    (3) If Hank dies and Marie doesn't have his career as motive to stay quiet, she was going to blow the lid on Walt anyway. There was no returning to a quiet suburban life in any case.

    Probably some combination of these things along with genuinely not wanting to kill Hank crossed his mind before calling off the Nazis. In any case, Cranston's terrific acting made it clear that Walt was resigned to losing at that point. That tear he shed was awesome.

  10. #70
    My prediction (and every prediction I make about this show is wrong, so take it for what it's worth):

    We won't see the immediate aftermath of the cliffhanger, at least not for awhile. The next ep will pick up with Walt, Hank and Jesse AWOL (maybe Gomey too but come on, he might as well be wearing a red shirt), and the focus will be on Skyler and Marie trying to locate their respective spouses. The reason they ended the last ep in the middle of the fight, well at least a reason other than "it was awesome that way", is to preserve the uncertainty as to what has become of those guys now.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    My prediction (and every prediction I make about this show is wrong, so take it for what it's worth):

    We won't see the immediate aftermath of the cliffhanger, at least not for awhile. The next ep will pick up with Walt, Hank and Jesse AWOL (maybe Gomey too but come on, he might as well be wearing a red shirt), and the focus will be on Skyler and Marie trying to locate their respective spouses. The reason they ended the last ep in the middle of the fight, well at least a reason other than "it was awesome that way", is to preserve the uncertainty as to what has become of those guys now.
    The preview for the next episode consisted only of visual recaps of the gunfight we already saw overlaid with audio of Skyler leaving Walt a voicemail asking where he is. Your scenario fits.

  12. #72
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    Bryan Cranston was a guest star on Talking Bad after the last episode, and he assured us the finale would wrap things up very nicely.
    Gomie and Don Cheadle were the other guest stars...have an A1 day!

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Very intriguing indeed. I think Walt was still acting somewhat out of self-interest.
    (1) No telling how the Nazis would react once they found out the DEA was involved. Kill all witnesses at that point?
    (2) Walt couldn't be 100% certain that Hank and Gomie hadn't involved the rest of the DEA yet. If they had, Walt would have had to begin a life on the lam as a cop/brother killer (assuming the Nazis would even win).
    (3) If Hank dies and Marie doesn't have his career as motive to stay quiet, she was going to blow the lid on Walt anyway. There was no returning to a quiet suburban life in any case.
    Thought about this some more and I feel like I understated this. WE know that Hank involved only Gomie, but from Walt's perspective, seeing Gomie there had to be a shock... he probably thinks this means the DEA is fully involved at this point and that they have on tape his confession about killing Krazy 8, Emilio, and the gangbangers, i.e. his reputation and legal status are done for, and his family can never use the money.

    The return of the cancer is also a factor. His personal freedom from imprisonment is a lot less value if his days are numbered anyway. There's no point to further slaughter, especially if his reputation and the money's usefulness to his family are already kaput.

    Calling off the Nazis was probably a no-brainer for Walt, even putting aside any feelings for Hank.

  14. #74
    Most likely scenario is Hank and Gomie die in the shootout, but trying to think what other possibilities could occur.

    Maybe a ceasefire/standoff will happen? Hank can pull Walt from the backseat and put a gun to his head and use him as a shield in front of the Nazis. Will that stop the bullets from flying and begin a round of negotiations?

    The Nazis hold almost all the cards here, but maybe one card Hank/Walt can play is the threat that the tribal police and more DEA agents are coming. We know Hank hasn't made those calls yet but the Nazis don't know that. Could that put some time pressure on the Nazis? (And, in fact, maybe the tribal police hear the gunfight and actually ARE on their way right now. But, as much as BB enjoys using the western motif, I prefer the cavalry not arrive in this case and if at all, only the threat of the cavalry be used by Hank/Walt).

    Now clearly the Nazis can't allow these cops to leave with Walt in any case since Walt knows about their crimes. They would rather massacre them all. But clearly Walt holds incredible value to them at the same time. Could they possibly allow Hank and Gomie to live if the Nazis can leave with Walt and Jesse, especially if they have time pressure on them? Hank might actually rather die than let Walt go, but would he want Gomie to die, too?

    Just spitballing here. Again, most likely Hank and Gomie just die, but I'm trying to think of (perhaps farfetched) scenarios where they survive.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Now clearly the Nazis can't allow these cops to leave with Walt in any case since Walt knows about their crimes. They would rather massacre them all. But clearly Walt holds incredible value to them at the same time. Could they possibly allow Hank and Gomie to live if the Nazis can leave with Walt and Jesse, especially if they have time pressure on them? Hank might actually rather die than let Walt go, but would he want Gomie to die, too?
    Walt has the ability to bargain for Hank's life if he chooses, and if he can make himself heard before the Nazis blow Hank & Gomie away. Jesse too, I guess, though I think Walt considers Jesse dead to him at this point.

    There is simply no way that Hank and Gomie win the firefight - if they do, the show is over and Walt goes to jail. They have to lose somehow - whether it's the obvious solution of them losing their lives, or something else like being abducted.

    One possible scenario would be the Nazis abducting Walt, Jesse and Hank and using Hank to make Walt and/or Jesse cook. That would force the three of them into an unlikely alliance.

  16. #76
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    Wow! That show just keeps getting more and more evil!

    I am flabbergasted by last night's events. How is Walt ever going to live with himself?

    I really thought Walt was going to try and make up with Jesse.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faison1 View Post
    Wow! That show just keeps getting more and more evil!

    I am flabbergasted by last night's events. How is Walt ever going to live with himself?
    Judging by the flash-forward scenes, he's not planning to.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Walt has the ability to bargain for Hank's life if he chooses, and if he can make himself heard before the Nazis blow Hank & Gomie away. Jesse too, I guess, though I think Walt considers Jesse dead to him at this point.

    There is simply no way that Hank and Gomie win the firefight - if they do, the show is over and Walt goes to jail. They have to lose somehow - whether it's the obvious solution of them losing their lives, or something else like being abducted.

    One possible scenario would be the Nazis abducting Walt, Jesse and Hank and using Hank to make Walt and/or Jesse cook. That would force the three of them into an unlikely alliance.
    Somehow I think I was fooling myself before last night. I thought the writers might have some sort of happy ending. Call me na´ve. Or hopeful...or hopeless....

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Judging by the flash-forward scenes, he's not planning to.
    I never say never with BB. Every week I make predictions, every week they're wrong.

    But Walt sure did burn the heck out of that bridge. There's no going back from what he said about Jane, nor about pointing Jesse out to the Aryans.

    Speaking of bridge burning, Hank went out well. No begging, no denial, and he was just short of being kind to Walt (as Walt was bargaining for Hank's life).

    I hated watching Flynn deal with his world collapsing.

    I wonder about Walt's "conversation" with Skyler with the police listening in. Walt was clearly assuming the police were listening because he immediately destroyed his phone after the call. Sure, he went into megalomaniac mode, but he also put all the crimes on himself, making Skyler out to be his largely unwilling accomplice who betrayed him, potentially getting her off the hook and/or minimizing her role. He made no attempt at all to explain what really went down with Hank. I could have sworn I saw something in her expression that didn't seem quite in sync with what Walt was saying to her.

    Of course, more than likely I'm reading too much into it.

    My next (soon to be wrong) prediction is that Walt comes out of hiding in New Hampshire because of blue meth. The episode with the Mexican cartel demonstrated that Jesse learned enough to make meth nearly as good as Walt-- certainly enough to get the purity and color people expect and that Lydia is desperate for (as the Czech mob gets increasingly annoyed).

    When that blue stuff turns up, Walt's going to know that Todd's people have betrayed him by not killing Jesse. That triggers him to come back-- but to do what? Kill Jesse, kill the Aryans, kill both? Free Jesse?

    I assume the Feds will confiscate the car wash from Skyler, possibly the house (turning it into the shell we see in the flash forwards). That puts pressure on Walt as well.

    I still don't know who the ricin is for. My guess is Lydia. At least today.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Judging by the flash-forward scenes, he's not planning to.
    It seems pretty clear after last night that Todd's uncle reneges completely on the deal to kill Jesse so he can cook indefinitely, and consequently, Walt's big gun revenge is about getting to Jesse to finish the job. It's perhaps less clear how the ricin will be used, but I now think it is meant for Jesse to die painfully. In Walt's mind, Jesse betrayed him and is ultimately responsible for Hank's death and the destruction of Walt's family, consequences of his actions for which there should be no mercy.

    Whether or not Walt succeeds is another matter.
    Last edited by 77devil; 09-16-2013 at 09:57 AM.

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