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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    All I got from that scene was that Skyler never nodded or said anything that would show she agreed with Marie's accusations. She cried and said "I'm sorry". She never said anything that admitted her knowledge or place in Walter's schemes.

    Now, sister-to-sister it probably said a lot, and their relationship will never be the same (plus that whole baby-stealing thing). But Skyler is right, Hank/Marie have nothing that would hold up to police or cross-examination.
    I think we're in agreement.

    Between the sisters themselves, there's no going back. They aren't in a court of law and they both know the subtext of what happened between them. In fact, Marie made the subtext explicit and Skyler STILL did not correct her. Their relationship is forever and categorically changed.

    But yes, nothing Skyler did during that exchange amounts to something admissible as far as this non-lawyer can tell.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    The actors continue to step up their games in these 1-on-1 confrontations. Hank vs Walt. Skyler vs Hank. Marie vs Skyler. Good stuff. Can't wait for Jesse vs Hank. Marie the klepto trying to steal Holly this time.

    So, the next episode is titled "Confessions." I'm expecting two confessions, neither of which will be Jesse to Hank.

    The episode preview highly suggests that one confession will be Saul confessing to Jesse about Brock but that may be a preview swerve.

    Will Hank let his boss and the DEA know about Walt (after striking out interrogating Jesse)?

    Whither Walter Jr? Marie tried to save Holly. Will the Schraders let Walter Jr in on what's happening?
    Good call on the two confessions and the Saul prediction.

    Several questions in the thread were answered last night . Walt Jr. is not on meth. and Hank and Marie won't
    tell him about dad now, but it appears they were going to try. I think Walt Jr. remains a peripheral character.

    It seems nearly certain that Hank will never tell his bosses/colleagues anything unless he can make a definitive case first which seems more unlikely. His realization that Walt's dirty money funded his operation and rehab. sealed the deal.

    Skyler seems to be all in at this point, but I still wouldn't dismiss her turning on Walt under the right circumstances particularly to protect the children if not herself.

    With the meth. lab returning to New Mexico, combined with Skyler's repeated declarations that this is in the past, quite the opposite appears to be developing. I'm sticking with my kidnapping theory followed by Walt's revenge with the big gun and ricin.

    So what happens to, Jesse? He's clearly gone over edge and next week's episode called "Rabid Dog" means it's focused on him. It's clear from the first episode that the house isn't burned. Jesse is probably interrupted by Walt rather than having a crisis of conscience. Does this spell the final confrontation between Walt and Jesse? After all, what do you do to a rabid dog? However, it seems too obvious, and too early for Jesse's storyline to be wrapped up. We'll see.

  3. #43
    So, no preview swerve at all re: Saul coming clean about Brock! Wow, what an episode. Things just kept escalating. When the Schraders sat down with the Whites in the tex-mex restaurant amid the waiter peddling his guac, I figured I was about to watch the best scene in the episode. But then the brilliant confession video happened, and then Jesse connecting the dots from Huell's quick hands (the Chris Paul of bodyguards) to Brock's poisoning to Walt being a manipulative bastard. I enjoyed the heck out of that episode.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by 77devil View Post
    It seems nearly certain that Hank will never tell his bosses/colleagues anything unless he can make a definitive case first which seems more unlikely. His realization that Walt's dirty money funded his operation and rehab. sealed the deal.

    Skyler seems to be all in at this point, but I still wouldn't dismiss her turning on Walt under the right circumstances particularly to protect the children if not herself.
    Hank's investigation is completely dead, unless he manages to turn Skylar. She knows the "confession" is a lie.

    With the meth. lab returning to New Mexico, combined with Skyler's repeated declarations that this is in the past, quite the opposite appears to be developing. I'm sticking with my kidnapping theory followed by Walt's revenge with the big gun and ricin.

    So what happens to, Jesse? He's clearly gone over edge and next week's episode called "Rabid Dog" means it's focused on him. It's clear from the first episode that the house isn't burned. Jesse is probably interrupted by Walt rather than having a crisis of conscience. Does this spell the final confrontation between Walt and Jesse? After all, what do you do to a rabid dog? However, it seems too obvious, and too early for Jesse's storyline to be wrapped up. We'll see.
    What if he's interrupted by Walt Jr. instead? You're right - we know the house doesn't burn, so *something* happens to prevent it, and it's not going to be a crisis of conscience on Jesse's part. If Walt Jr. learns what's up, this whole carefully constructed detente between the Whites and the Schraders goes to pieces - quickly - and Skylar's loyalty to Walt will once again be put to the test.

  5. #45
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    Walter's 'confession' tape about Hank may be the most dastardly thing he's done since he decided to start cooking meth to provide for his family.

  6. #46
    Forgot to mention Jesse and Walt's "stop working me" conversation / awkward hug in the desert. Another great scene. My guess is this will be the episode submitted for the 2014 Emmys on behalf of Aaron Paul, who was terrific here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    What if he's interrupted by Walt Jr. instead? You're right - we know the house doesn't burn, so *something* happens to prevent it, and it's not going to be a crisis of conscience on Jesse's part. If Walt Jr. learns what's up, this whole carefully constructed detente between the Whites and the Schraders goes to pieces - quickly - and Skylar's loyalty to Walt will once again be put to the test.
    I like this theory a lot.

    (1) It's about time that Walt's two sons get to meet each other.
    (2) From Jesse's point of view, what is better revenge for Walt's manipulations? Burning down Walt's house, or exposing Walt's precious secrets to his son?
    (3) Skyler originally discovered Walt's lying when he was in a daze pre-surgery and blurted out something about having two phones. Walter Jr similarly once heard his dad accidentally refer to Junior as "Jesse" while in a painkiller daze but didn't know at the time who that was. Will that scene pay off here?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    So, no preview swerve at all re: Saul coming clean about Brock! Wow, what an episode. Things just kept escalating. When the Schraders sat down with the Whites in the tex-mex restaurant amid the waiter peddling his guac, I figured I was about to watch the best scene in the episode. But then the brilliant confession video happened, and then Jesse connecting the dots from Huell's quick hands (the Chris Paul of bodyguards) to Brock's poisoning to Walt being a manipulative bastard. I enjoyed the heck out of that episode.

    I loved a lot about the episode, including the brilliance of Walt's video "confession" but I didn't think the Jesse/Huell/Brock connecting-the-dots thing worked. For one, it was a lot of pieces to the puzzle being put together in Jesse's mind -- his extremely distracted and depressed mind -- in a matter of seconds. But more than that, how does the realization that Huell lifted his ricin cigarette, which I understand leads him to realize that Walt (through Saul) stole it, not Gus, lead him to believe with such certainty that Walt poisoned Brock? Brock wasn't poisoned with ricin, and Jesse knows this. He was poisoned with the Lilly of the Valley plant.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I loved a lot about the episode, including the brilliance of Walt's video "confession" but I didn't think the Jesse/Huell/Brock connecting-the-dots thing worked. For one, it was a lot of pieces to the puzzle being put together in Jesse's mind -- his extremely distracted and depressed mind -- in a matter of seconds. But more than that, how does the realization that Huell lifted his ricin cigarette, which I understand leads him to realize that Walt (through Saul) stole it, not Gus, lead him to believe with such certainty that Walt poisoned Brock? Brock wasn't poisoned with ricin, and Jesse knows this. He was poisoned with the Lilly of the Valley plant.
    Alan Sepinwall posted a timeline at the end of his review going over the events that would lead Jesse to come to this conclusion. I understand how viewers, for whom these events played out over several years on their TV screens, might not believe that Jesse would come to that conclusion. I initially understood why Jesse was doing but it didn't really fit right for me either until I read people discussing it in reviews.

    However, for Jesse it has been a much shorter time frame since Brock was poisoned (6-9 months?). Also, while Jesse is distracted and obsessed, he is primarily distracted and obsessed about how Mr. White has been lying to him and manipulating him all along. The second Huell pick pocket scenario reminds him that what he originally thought with regard to the ricin cig/Brock poisoning, that Saul/Walt poisoned a kid to manipulate him into aligning with Walt and not Gus, was correct. I think it logically works from Jesse's POV.
    Coach K on Kyle Singler - "What position does he play? ... He plays winner."

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    Alan Sepinwall posted a timeline at the end of his review going over the events that would lead Jesse to come to this conclusion. I understand how viewers, for whom these events played out over several years on their TV screens, might not believe that Jesse would come to that conclusion. I initially understood why Jesse was doing but it didn't really fit right for me either until I read people discussing it in reviews.

    However, for Jesse it has been a much shorter time frame since Brock was poisoned (6-9 months?). Also, while Jesse is distracted and obsessed, he is primarily distracted and obsessed about how Mr. White has been lying to him and manipulating him all along. The second Huell pick pocket scenario reminds him that what he originally thought with regard to the ricin cig/Brock poisoning, that Saul/Walt poisoned a kid to manipulate him into aligning with Walt and not Gus, was correct. I think it logically works from Jesse's POV.
    Right. It's not Jesse coming up with a crazy theory in a split-second, it's Jesse realizing that his original crazy theory is at least partially true.

  10. #50
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    Crazy episode

    What a ride that episode was! After two episodes of setup, it feels like the season arc is really on rails now.

    Walt's video was brilliant (I should have seen this coming, but didn't). I'm surprised at how well the show's arc plays into Hank being the mastermind all along. I'd love to know how far back this idea came to the writers-- in many ways, what Walt says on the video makes far more sense than what actually happened in the story. Hank is screwed, and he knows it.

    I think serious digging might eventually turn the story up as a fraud, but the only thing that could quickly unravel the whole knot would be Jesse teaming up with Hank. The only reason I discount that happening is because it's so obvious, and BB tends to upend my expectations with plot. (A big reason I enjoy the show.)

    The one other thing that doesn't dovetail elegantly into the Walt story is the one piece of evidence Hank has-- the Gayle-signed Leaves of Grass. I have a feeling that's going to come up again.

    What a great performance Walt had in that video. If anything, too good. I wonder if Skyler will ever believe anything Walt tells her again. Lord knows she shouldn't. At what a craven, disgusting act it was as well. That part of me I can't stop from rooting for Walt was looking at that performance and shaking his head.

    Brilliant acting by Cranston.

    Can I say I enjoyed the "ohmygawd my plan is unraveling" Walt? Screeching the car up to the car wash entrance, stopping for a millisecond to compose himself, trying to act casual in front of Skyler and hitting her with about the most awkward lie seen on broadcast television to explain going under the vending machine, then almost running to it to get the gun... again, kudos to Cranston and his comedic abilities. Those years on Malcolm really paid off.

    Rumor has it Cranston has been cast as Lex Luthor in the next Superman, which means I'll actually see a Superman movie. Please, please, PLEASE let Lex say "I am the one who knocks!" somewhere in the movie.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Forgot to mention Jesse and Walt's "stop working me" conversation / awkward hug in the desert. Another great scene. My guess is this will be the episode submitted for the 2014 Emmys on behalf of Aaron Paul, who was terrific here.
    Yep - that was Emmy bait

    The awkward hug in the desert had me channeling Fredo/Michael in Godfather Part II when Michael hugged Fredo at their mother's funeral while looking over his shoulder to give the signal the time had come to whack Fredo

    Vince Gilligan admits to borrowing freely from The Godfather saga

    We do talk about “The Godfather” and “The Godfather Part II” very often in the writers’ room... I admit to borrowing liberally and being inspired by “The Godfather” and “The Godfather Part II.”

    http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/20...gilligan/?_r=0

    Maybe Jesse also saw that movie

    Have an A-1 day

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    Alan Sepinwall posted a timeline at the end of his review going over the events that would lead Jesse to come to this conclusion. I understand how viewers, for whom these events played out over several years on their TV screens, might not believe that Jesse would come to that conclusion. I initially understood why Jesse was doing but it didn't really fit right for me either until I read people discussing it in reviews.

    However, for Jesse it has been a much shorter time frame since Brock was poisoned (6-9 months?). Also, while Jesse is distracted and obsessed, he is primarily distracted and obsessed about how Mr. White has been lying to him and manipulating him all along. The second Huell pick pocket scenario reminds him that what he originally thought with regard to the ricin cig/Brock poisoning, that Saul/Walt poisoned a kid to manipulate him into aligning with Walt and not Gus, was correct. I think it logically works from Jesse's POV.
    How? So Jesse realizes from Huell's second pickpocket that there was a first, and that Walt was behind the stealing of the Ricin cigarette from Jesse. OK, fine. Jesse's original theory was that Walt had poisoned Brock with that ricin cigarette. But even after the second pickpocketing by Huell, even if he now is certain that Walt had the ricin cigarette lifted, there is still the problem that Brock was not poisoned with ricin. Isn't the more reasonable conclusion that Walt (thru Huell) stole the Ricin cigarette for some other purpose that he didn't want to share with Jesse, that had nothing to do with Brock? For the sake of discussion why, in Jesse's mind, would Walt (thru Huell) steal the Ricin cigarette, not use it to poison Brock, but then in fact poison Brock but using some other means rather than the one he just orchestrated and went to great lengths to arrange, and indeed involve other people -- Saul and Huell -- in?

    Sepinwall's addendum to his review states that the fact that the ricin wasn't actually used on Brock is "beside the point" but doesn't explain why it is such. He says that when he realizes that Huell picked his pocket that "everything clicks into place" about the events around the time of the poisoning, such as the timing of Brock's illness being convenient for Walt, but the fact remains that ricin was not used, and that undercuts the credibility of Jesse's reaction now. That fact would prevent everything from just "clicking into place."

  13. #53
    I agree with Sepinwall. The key is that, once Jesse realizes Huel lifted the ricin, he knows Walt was behind the ricin being stolen. The only reason for Walt orchestrate that is if he was behind Brock's poisoning. That a different agent was used to carry out the poisoning makes no difference - the point was that Walt tried to make Jesse believe (falsely) that the ricin had been used.

    Add to that the lengths to which Walt went after the fact to have Jesse "find" the cigarette, and it becomes even more clear that Walt has something to hide.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    Alan Sepinwall posted a timeline at the end of his review going over the events that would lead Jesse to come to this conclusion. I understand how viewers, for whom these events played out over several years on their TV screens, might not believe that Jesse would come to that conclusion. I initially understood why Jesse was doing but it didn't really fit right for me either until I read people discussing it in reviews.

    However, for Jesse it has been a much shorter time frame since Brock was poisoned (6-9 months?). Also, while Jesse is distracted and obsessed, he is primarily distracted and obsessed about how Mr. White has been lying to him and manipulating him all along. The second Huell pick pocket scenario reminds him that what he originally thought with regard to the ricin cig/Brock poisoning, that Saul/Walt poisoned a kid to manipulate him into aligning with Walt and not Gus, was correct. I think it logically works from Jesse's POV.
    thanks for linking that, and giving me a chance to read Anna Gunn's op-ed:
    I have a character issue

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    I agree with Sepinwall. The key is that, once Jesse realizes Huel lifted the ricin, he knows Walt was behind the ricin being stolen. The only reason for Walt orchestrate that is if he was behind Brock's poisoning. That a different agent was used to carry out the poisoning makes no difference - the point was that Walt tried to make Jesse believe (falsely) that the ricin had been used.

    Add to that the lengths to which Walt went after the fact to have Jesse "find" the cigarette, and it becomes even more clear that Walt has something to hide.
    Agreed. Jesse could not have been fully settled with the original LotV explanation. Surely he and Andrea would've shown Brock pictures of LotV berries and asked if he ever came across and ate them, right? While LotV was the poison, they probably never were settled on how Brock got poisoned by it. That, combined with Jesse being in a current mindset that Walt has always been "working him" combined with Walt being a chemist who would know about LotV poison combined with how everything worked out so well for Walt post-Brock poisoning, and it's an epiphany I buy and, in fact, think was done well. As Duvall mentioned, it was Jesse re-connecting the dots, not connecting the dots for the first time.

  16. #56
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    Not a lot unexpected happened in this episode. I guess if there was a theme, it was, "watch everyone go over to the dark side."

    Two characters went way dark this episode. Skyler dropped even the pretense of being good with her suggestion that Walt kill Jesse because they've already killed so many others. When Hank told his partner that it was okay if Walter killed Jesse because they'd catch him on tape if he did, he made it clear where his moral compass points now.

    You know, let's throw a third into the mix-- Saul. In the last two episodes he's suggested offing people. Saul has been gleefully unethical for 5 seasons, but until these last couple episodes he's refrained from truly bad stuff, now he seems to go there pretty quick.

    Marie seems to be flirting with the dark side, but I don't think she's gone over yet.

    Jesse, I'm not so sure. I don't think he'll actually go after Walt's family, but you never know on this show. My gut tells me that Walt getting involved with Todd's crew is what will get his family in trouble and necessitate the purchase of the machine gun.

  17. #57
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    Terrific episode last night, in my mind. The last 20 minutes or so was just super intense, but then again, so have been most of the last 3 or 4 episodes.

    Only thing that wasn't great was the shootout scene. Sorry, but with the neo-Nazis not only outnumbering the DEA guys, but more importantly, spraying tons of bullets at them from short range with high-powered fully automatic weapons, there's just no way that those guys would have missed Hank and Gomie so many times, or even taken so long to hit them if that's what ended up happening. That was A-Team kind of stuff. Still, that didn't detract from my enjoyment of the episode at all.

    I kinda did suspect that the machine gun that Walt purchases and that we see in the trunk in the "future" opening scene from the first episode of the season was ultimately going to be meant for the neo-Nazis, and I feel more confident of that now. Of course, Gilligan always seems to surprise us, but I think it almost has to be for them now. Whether they force Walt to cook for them or force Jesse to cook and Walt attempts to rescue Jesse from them, I just think somehow he's going to have to take them all out with one blow, and it's going to be with that gun.

    As for the ricin? Got to be for either Lydia or himself.

  18. #58
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    I looked at my watch when Hank threw the cuffs on and thought, "huh, there's still like 6 minutes of episode left, what's going to...oh damn here they come..."

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Terrific episode last night, in my mind. The last 20 minutes or so was just super intense, but then again, so have been most of the last 3 or 4 episodes.

    Only thing that wasn't great was the shootout scene. Sorry, but with the neo-Nazis not only outnumbering the DEA guys, but more importantly, spraying tons of bullets at them from short range with high-powered fully automatic weapons, there's just no way that those guys would have missed Hank and Gomie so many times, or even taken so long to hit them if that's what ended up happening. That was A-Team kind of stuff. Still, that didn't detract from my enjoyment of the episode at all.

    I kinda did suspect that the machine gun that Walt purchases and that we see in the trunk in the "future" opening scene from the first episode of the season was ultimately going to be meant for the neo-Nazis, and I feel more confident of that now. Of course, Gilligan always seems to surprise us, but I think it almost has to be for them now. Whether they force Walt to cook for them or force Jesse to cook and Walt attempts to rescue Jesse from them, I just think somehow he's going to have to take them all out with one blow, and it's going to be with that gun.

    As for the ricin? Got to be for either Lydia or himself.
    I am thinking the ricin is for Todd to get "in" to the facility (Todd likes Walt), then the big gun is for everyone else.

    I am with you that Jesse may get forced into indentured servitude, but I don't really buy it unless they somehow threaten Brock or his family.

    I also wonder if Hank somehow gets out of this alive. VG paints people into corners a lot and then bails them out. Gomie has to be a goner, though.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    I am thinking the ricin is for Todd to get "in" to the facility (Todd likes Walt), then the big gun is for everyone else.

    I am with you that Jesse may get forced into indentured servitude, but I don't really buy it unless they somehow threaten Brock or his family.

    I also wonder if Hank somehow gets out of this alive. VG paints people into corners a lot and then bails them out. Gomie has to be a goner, though.
    As Tommy notes, Hank and Gomie should be dead already. If Hanks survives, it would be a highly contrived storyline. I found the beginning of the ending intense, but once the shooting started it became silly.

    I'm convinced that Hank dies otherwise Walt is not having breakfast in a restaurant and buying a gun on his 52nd birthday. I think your first thought, however, is correct.

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