We Don't Need No Stinkin' Positions

[MChambers]

Interesting article about rethinking basketball positions, with some nice quotes from Shane.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...628_story.html

[ChillinDuke]

Interesting article about rethinking basketball positions, with some nice quotes from Shane.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...628_story.html

Very interesting. Thanks for this.

Although it does surprise me how elementary this concept is. Aside from (presumably) packaging the findings in some neat form, we've been discussing this concept for years. Not trying to take anything away from the guy. Just sayin'.

- Chillin

[BismarckDuke]

Very interesting. Thanks for this.

Although it does surprise me how elementary this concept is. Aside from (presumably) packaging the findings in some neat form, we've been discussing this concept for years. Not trying to take anything away from the guy. Just sayin'.

- Chillin

LOL, not be mean or anything, but this comment proves the old saying, talk is cheap.

I still love to hear the story about how people used to I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. about how every time they taped a note to something, that when they removed the note it riped the item the note was taped to. One day someone said, what about a post-it note? And today the complainer is still complaining and the inventor is sitting pretty, very pretty.

It can always be done, just think about what you use and how it could be better. I beleive you can do it!

[Des Esseintes]

Very interesting. Thanks for this.

Although it does surprise me how elementary this concept is. Aside from (presumably) packaging the findings in some neat form, we've been discussing this concept for years. Not trying to take anything away from the guy. Just sayin'.

- Chillin

I'm not sure. It's true that the Duke community talks and has talked a lot about positionless basketball, but (by my reading) positionlessness is not really what this dude is advocating. He seems to be arguing for a new understanding of positions, such that instead of slotting a guy into roles 1 through 5, you're slotting him into roles 1 through 10 (or 13, since the article was fuzzy on the exact number). Since there are more "positions" than slots on the court, it becomes a matter of finding the most efficient and powerful combination of those 10 or so roles. To me, that's news, and I can see how it would offer a program or franchise new perspectives on team-building. Whatever sort of dude your best player is, what kinds of players should be placed around him? Is the team's second-best player of a type that generally meshes with him? I'm sure some of these answers match up with traditional understandings of who goes where on the court, but I bet some of it also offers some useful counterintuitive wisdom.

At the very least, this research offers a much more precise approach to positionlessness than I have elsewhere seen.

[ChillinDuke]

LOL, not be mean or anything, but this comment proves the old saying, talk is cheap.

I still love to hear the story about how people used to I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. about how every time they taped a note to something, that when they removed the note it riped the item the note was taped to. One day someone said, what about a post-it note? And today the complainer is still complaining and the inventor is sitting pretty, very pretty.

It can always be done, just think about what you use and how it could be better. I beleive you can do it!

I'm not complaining. And in fact complimented the guy on his study being interesting.

I'm not sure. It's true that the Duke community talks and has talked a lot about positionless basketball, but (by my reading) positionlessness is not really what this dude is advocating. He seems to be arguing for a new understanding of positions, such that instead of slotting a guy into roles 1 through 5, you're slotting him into roles 1 through 10 (or 13, since the article was fuzzy on the exact number). Since there are more "positions" than slots on the court, it becomes a matter of finding the most efficient and powerful combination of those 10 or so roles. To me, that's news, and I can see how it would offer a program or franchise new perspectives on team-building. Whatever sort of dude your best player is, what kinds of players should be placed around him? Is the team's second-best player of a type that generally meshes with him? I'm sure some of these answers match up with traditional understandings of who goes where on the court, but I bet some of it also offers some useful counterintuitive wisdom.

At the very least, this research offers a much more precise approach to positionlessness than I have elsewhere seen.

I agree. I'm certainly not saying we should get credit here on the board for this point of view. But the concept of "scoring point guard" or "paint defender" are hardly new concepts. I've even seen video games or websites that use labels such as these.

I'm sure his research is deeper than this. But I'm just saying the way the website describes his approach is certainly not exotic or cutting edge.

- Chillin

[MChambers]

I'm not complaining. And in fact complimented the guy on his study being interesting.



I agree. I'm certainly not saying we should get credit here on the board for this point of view. But the concept of "scoring point guard" or "paint defender" are hardly new concepts. I've even seen video games or websites that use labels such as these.

I'm sure his research is deeper than this. But I'm just saying the way the website describes his approach is certainly not exotic or cutting edge.

- Chillin

Looks like a presentation he gave is here:

http://www.sloansportsconference.com...rch2012PPT.pdf

[fan345678]

I'm not sure. It's true that the Duke community talks and has talked a lot about positionless basketball, but (by my reading) positionlessness is not really what this dude is advocating. He seems to be arguing for a new understanding of positions, such that instead of slotting a guy into roles 1 through 5, you're slotting him into roles 1 through 10 (or 13, since the article was fuzzy on the exact number). Since there are more "positions" than slots on the court, it becomes a matter of finding the most efficient and powerful combination of those 10 or so roles. To me, that's news, and I can see how it would offer a program or franchise new perspectives on team-building. Whatever sort of dude your best player is, what kinds of players should be placed around him? Is the team's second-best player of a type that generally meshes with him? I'm sure some of these answers match up with traditional understandings of who goes where on the court, but I bet some of it also offers some useful counterintuitive wisdom.

At the very least, this research offers a much more precise approach to positionlessness than I have elsewhere seen.

Yep...it's the RPG-ification of basketball. Send out a mage, a knight, an archer, a sorceress, and a centaur, with a couple of giants who can come off your bench and you'll go deep into March...maybe even April!

[Li_Duke]

“The data that’s come out in the last five years, teams understand what wins and what loses,” Battier said. “Traditionalists say ‘Oh, the numbers can’t tell a guys heart and psychology, and that’s true. The numbers aren’t everything but what the numbers can do is mitigate risk and they make your margin of error a little smaller.”

I love that last bit. Spoken like a true statistician. Shane understands what so many folks do not, that the purpose of statistics is not to predict perfectly, but rather to reduce uncertainty. I've spoken to analysts in finance, sports, and medicine who work with statistics, and they just don't understand the distinction. Not that I'm hoping he'll retire anytime soon, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what Shane does after basketball. I can definitely see smart NBA GM among the possibilities.