Front Page Trivia Question

[tommy]

Not sure about these, but I'm going to go with (and I swear I did not cheat):

Rick Pitino and Tubby Smith, Kentucky. That's the easy one.
Jud Heathcote and Tom Izzo, Michigan State. THere wasn't another coach in between those two, was there?
Adolph Rupp and Joe B. Hall, Kentucky. Pretty sure but not positive about that one.

Oh, and a fourth would be Frank McGuire and Dean Smith, UNC.

Bob Knight and Mike Davis were close, as Davis got to the NCAA Final before losing to Maryland.

That's all I gots.

[theschwartz]

Not sure about these, but I'm going to go with (and I swear I did not cheat):

Rick Pitino and Tubby Smith, Kentucky. That's the easy one.
Jud Heathcote and Tom Izzo, Michigan State. THere wasn't another coach in between those two, was there?
Adolph Rupp and Joe B. Hall, Kentucky. Pretty sure but not positive about that one.

Oh, and a fourth would be Frank McGuire and Dean Smith, UNC.

Bob Knight and Mike Davis were close, as Davis got to the NCAA Final before losing to Maryland.

That's all I gots.

Pitino again, this time with Denny Crum at Louisville.

[BigWayne]

There is one more...Norm Sloan and Jim Valvano.

[brevity]

Says the front page:

It occurred to us Wednesday that to the best of our knowledge, there is something that has only happened twice in college basketball: that a coach retired having won a national championship during his career and that his immediate successor also won a title during his.

So far we have 6 solid pairings. I have a 7th, but it needs a ruling. Everett Dean left Indiana for Stanford in 1938, and was succeeded by Branch McCracken. McCracken won at Indiana in 1940 and 1953. Everett Dean won at Stanford in 1942. So, technically, Everett Dean retired with a national championship, and his successor won a title as well.

I think the problem is how the question is phrased. It doesn't account for careers that take place in more than one school. Jerry Tarkanian was replaced with Rollie Massimino, for example. The last three coaches at Kansas have at least one national championship in their careers. But we prefer to think that the Jayhawks have a Huckleberry Hound-sized hole between Larry Brown and Bill Self.

Maybe the question could be better stated as: What NCAA Division I men's basketball programs can boast national championships won by a head coach and his immediate successor?

Anyway, I thought I'd add the active head coaches who could help their schools join the intended list:

Mark Turgeon, Maryland
Kevin Ollie, Connecticut

Any others?

[Turtleboy]

Y'all have a funny definition for "retired". I doubt it means "taking a job somewhere else".

[BigWayne]

Y'all have a funny definition for "retired". I doubt it means "taking a job somewhere else".

If you are referring to the Everett Dean reference you are not connecting the dots. He had no championship when he went from
Indiana to Stanford. The championship came after he moved to Stanford and before he retired.

[BigWayne]

Says the front page:



So far we have 6 solid pairings. I have a 7th, but it needs a ruling. Everett Dean left Indiana for Stanford in 1938, and was succeeded by Branch McCracken. McCracken won at Indiana in 1940 and 1953. Everett Dean won at Stanford in 1942. So, technically, Everett Dean retired with a national championship, and his successor won a title as well.

I think the problem is how the question is phrased. It doesn't account for careers that take place in more than one school. Jerry Tarkanian was replaced with Rollie Massimino, for example. The last three coaches at Kansas have at least one national championship in their careers. But we prefer to think that the Jayhawks have a Huckleberry Hound-sized hole between Larry Brown and Bill Self.

Maybe the question could be better stated as: What NCAA Division I men's basketball programs can boast national championships won by a head coach and his immediate successor?

Anyway, I thought I'd add the active head coaches who could help their schools join the intended list:

Mark Turgeon, Maryland
Kevin Ollie, Connecticut

Any others?

Good point. Rereading the question, it's worded almost like a trick question, probably not on purpose. It also could be inferred that it only refers to successors of coaches that have retired, which would exclude Valvano and Tubby.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Oh, and a fourth would be Frank McGuire and Dean Smith, UNC.

And Gut made it to the FF. Luckily, they avoided three in a row.

[Turtleboy]

If you are referring to the Everett Dean reference you are not connecting the dots. He had no championship when he went from
Indiana to Stanford. The championship came after he moved to Stanford and before he retired.

When did Pitino retire?

[Turtleboy]

After looking at the answers on the main page, I reiterate; Y'all have a funny definition of "retire".

[CDu]

If we're extending the term "retired" to "stopped coaching at that school" (which appears to be the case since Pitino and Sloan didn't retire), there is still one pair that is notably missing. Larry Brown was immediately succeeded at Kansas by Roy Williams. Williams didn't win a championship at Kansas, but he has won two titles in his career. By the wording of the question ("one coach leaves with a championship during in his career, the succeeding coach also won a title during his"), Brown/Williams qualifies as well. I'd say the Brown/Williams counts just as much as Sloan/Valvano, because Brown never again coached in college.

[Turtleboy]

If we're extending the term "retired" to "stopped coaching at that school"

Which would mean that every pro athlete who was ever traded retired. Or for that matter any time someone takes another job in the same field of endeavor he retires. In all sincerity, I cannot believe that such an assertion is up for discussion.

[BD80]

If we're extending the term "retired" to "stopped coaching at that school" (which appears to be the case since Pitino and Sloan didn't retire), there is still one pair that is notably missing. Larry Brown was immediately succeeded at Kansas by Roy Williams. ... Brown never again coached in college.

Ummmm. He's coaching at SMU.

[CDu]

Ummmm. He's coaching at SMU.

Wow. Had no idea. Still, the point stands. Sloan/Valvano shouldn't be included. Nor should Pitino/Smith. Nor should McGuire/Smith.

Healthcote/Izzo, Rupp/Hall, and Crum/Pitino still qualify.

[CDu]

Which would mean that every pro athlete who was ever traded retired. Or for that matter any time someone takes another job in the same field of endeavor he retires. In all sincerity, I cannot believe that such an assertion is up for discussion.

I agree. That was half of my point (the other half being that, if we're not using the agreed-upon definition of "retired", then Brown/Williams qualifies).

[BD80]

Wow. Had no idea. Still, the point stands. ...

Note I didn't say Brown was recruiting, or doing anything that would attract attention ...

[tommy]

If we're extending the term "retired" to "stopped coaching at that school" (which appears to be the case since Pitino and Sloan didn't retire), there is still one pair that is notably missing. Larry Brown was immediately succeeded at Kansas by Roy Williams. Williams didn't win a championship at Kansas, but he has won two titles in his career. By the wording of the question ("one coach leaves with a championship during in his career, the succeeding coach also won a title during his"), Brown/Williams qualifies as well. I'd say the Brown/Williams counts just as much as Sloan/Valvano, because Brown never again coached in college.

But the big difference is that Sloan won a championship at NC State, and Valvano followed him and also won a championship at NC State. Roy didn't win a championship at Kansas.

The question was not artfully worded, I think we all agree, but I perceived that its intent was to ask what schools have had two consecutive coaches win championships at that school. I missed the word "retired" and that's why I immediately went to Pitino and Tubby, which was wrong as of course Pitino did not retire. But clearly Kansas with Roy doesn't count, because Roy didn't win the big one there.

[CDu]

But the big difference is that Sloan won a championship at NC State, and Valvano followed him and also won a championship at NC State. Roy didn't win a championship at Kansas.

The question was not artfully worded, I think we all agree, but I perceived that its intent was to ask what schools have had two consecutive coaches win championships at that school. I missed the word "retired" and that's why I immediately went to Pitino and Tubby, which was wrong as of course Pitino did not retire. But clearly Kansas with Roy doesn't count, because Roy didn't win the big one there.

It's sort of hard to tell the intent. "School" is never mentioned in the question, but "retire" certainly is.

If the intent was to only consider those at one school, then I agree with you. But if that was the intent, then it was REALLY poorly worded.

Of course, if the term "retire" is held strictly, then it doesn't matter (as neither is applicable).

[Ichabod Drain]

Note I didn't say Brown was recruiting, or doing anything that would attract attention ...

Brown landed him a burger boy this year IIRC

[CDu]

Brown landed him a burger boy this year IIRC

I believe you are correct. I remember thinking "SMU?" when I saw the McDonald's game. It makes a bit more sense now.