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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC

    Will Quinn Cook be the best PG in college basketball next year?

    Cook made a terrific jump from his freshman to sophomore seasons, growing from a guy who struggled to crack the rotation into an All-ACC PG. In terms of ACC guys, he might just be the best returning PG (Brown, Harris, and Green are gone; Larkin loses all of his weapons from this year's team which will make life difficult for him). Here are the PG that I would have put ahead of Cook going into next season:

    Trey Burke (Michigan): may leave?
    Shane Larkin (Miami): may leave?
    Lorenzo Brown (NC State): early entry
    Russ Smith (Louisville): early entry
    Michael Carter-Williams (Syracuse): may leave?
    Ray McCallum (Detroit): may leave?
    Phil Pressey (Missouri): may leave?

    Guys who I'd put in the same conversation as Cook:
    Aaron Craft (OSU)
    Shabazz Napier (UConn): may leave?
    Myck Kabongo (UT): may leave?

    None of the freshmen PG options appear to be as good as a junior Cook should be, though you could possibly throw Andrew Harrison, Kasey Hill, Cat Barber, and Terry Rozier into the discussion.

    But it's very conceivable that Quinn Cook could be the best returning PG in college basketball next year. Hopefully, he regains the confidence that he had early last year, because if he does it could be a very special season for him and for Duke.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    But it's very conceivable that Quinn Cook could be the best returning PG in college basketball next year. Hopefully, he regains the confidence that he had early last year, because if he does it could be a very special season for him and for Duke.
    It's surprising to think this might be true, but who knows? Interestingly enough, the CBS pre-season top 25 you posted in another thread had just four sentences about Duke, and one of the four began with, "Cook isn’t a great point guard..." Not that CBS's opinion is necessarily correct, but if Quinn's really the best returning PG in the country, it does say something.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Cook made a terrific jump from his freshman to sophomore seasons, growing from a guy who struggled to crack the rotation into an All-ACC PG. In terms of ACC guys, he might just be the best returning PG (Brown, Harris, and Green are gone; Larkin loses all of his weapons from this year's team which will make life difficult for him). Here are the PG that I would have put ahead of Cook going into next season:

    Trey Burke (Michigan): may leave?
    Shane Larkin (Miami): may leave?
    Lorenzo Brown (NC State): early entry
    Russ Smith (Louisville): early entry
    Michael Carter-Williams (Syracuse): may leave?
    Ray McCallum (Detroit): may leave?
    Phil Pressey (Missouri): may leave?

    Guys who I'd put in the same conversation as Cook:
    Aaron Craft (OSU)
    Shabazz Napier (UConn): may leave?
    Myck Kabongo (UT): may leave?

    None of the freshmen PG options appear to be as good as a junior Cook should be, though you could possibly throw Andrew Harrison, Kasey Hill, Cat Barber, and Terry Rozier into the discussion.

    But it's very conceivable that Quinn Cook could be the best returning PG in college basketball next year. Hopefully, he regains the confidence that he had early last year, because if he does it could be a very special season for him and for Duke.
    Marcus Smart? He may leave, though.

  4. #4

    QC will determine how far we will go next season

    There is no doubt QC would be the key. We will be a great team if QC improves a lot. But I am not that sure he will make such a jump.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama
    I love Quinn Cook, and certainly agree that he made a big leap from his Fresh to his Soph year. A lot of that is the fact that he was healthy and a lot of that was Austin Rivers leaving.

    With that said, Cook has a long way to go. I don't like picking on players, but I think on a Duke fan website we can talk about a players weakness. For me, he doesn't have point guard instincts. I see him more as a Nolan Smith combo guard. Both on Offense and Defense, Cook has a lot to learn about running a team.

    I watched him against Louisville and thought his body language was terrible. Most of the night, he looked like he didn't want the ball in his hands. When Louisville pressed, I thought Quinn was hesitant. He didn't work his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. off to get open on inbounds play and he didn't work hard enough to help out Kelly and Mason bring the ball up court. I think his confidence was shaken from the Mich State game.

    Quinn really needs to improve his footwork defensively. He plays defense with his hands way too much. He needs to get back to penetrating and turning the corner on people.

    Next year is going to be really interesting with Sheed and Hood on the wings, two guards who can get their own shot off the dribble. Maybe that will take some pressure off of Quinn to be the primary distributor. I still think Quinn needs to improve on reading a game, learning how to control the tempo of a game (how to speed it up when we want to play fast and how to slow it down when we want to slow down).

    I expect another great improvement from him and I think a lot of these issues will be addressed in the summer.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    when does the KYRIE IRVING SKILLS CAMP commence?
    "One POSSIBLE future. From your point of view... I don't know tech stuff.".... Kyle Reese

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    Cook is our guy and I'm not going to bang on him!

    His development from Fr to So was what allowed us to have the year we had. And it was a good year! He doenst come thru and its a less good year. So I'm hopeful that he continues to develop and add new wrinkles to his game.

    At some point I suspect he either lost confidence or sustained an undisclosed injury (or both!) as he was not the same guy to close the season as he started the season IMHO..

    Not sure why that is exactly... But I look for him to be even better next year.

  8. #8
    Cook is the key to next year. He has to keep his head in the game and learn to use the pick and roll correctly. If he can get into the paint and effectively use the pick and roll, it should open up the offense even more than it already will be. I'm not sure he'll be the best PG in the country but if Larkin leaves, all Duke needs is for him to be the best PG in the conference. Although if you consider Hanlan a PG, he might jump ahead of Cook.

    I'd add Carson from ASU (although he just filed NBA paperwork), Appling from MSU, Artis from Oregon, and then you have guys like Chaz Williams from UMass or McConnell at Zona and I'm sure there are some others at smaller programs but on the whole, most major programs will be going into next year with some huge question marks at PG. But from a national perspective, I'd be happy with him being a top 10 guy and I don't think anyone would have him as the top overall PG in the country.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Marcus Smart? He may leave, though.
    I actually don't view Smart as a PG (at least not a very good one). He is a terrific athlete and can be a force of a player, but his assist-to-turnover ratio (4.2 assists to 3.4 turnovers) is very poor and his shot selection is atrocious. I think OSU would be better off finding a real PG and moving Smart to SG, where he can focus on scoring and rebounding rather than trying to create for himself and others.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC

    Quinn's stats

    Quinn went from 11 to 33 minutes per game. From 25.0% on 3s to 39.3%. From 1.9 assists to 5.3.

    His assist to turnover ratio was 2.4 (190 to 79). In contrast, Trey Burke was at 3.3 (222 to 67) and Lorenzo Brown was at 2.07 (230 to 111).

    If you assume Quinn gets a little more careful with the ball and a little more confident in pushing the pace and making plays, then I think he breaks the 3.0 assist to turnover ratio (with something like 210 assists and 70 turnovers).

    The biggest area where Quinn can improve and take Duke to another level is with his defense. This past season he had 51 steals on the season, or 1.4 per game. Payton Siva has 90 (2.3 per game), Carter-Williams had 111 (2.8) and Shane Larkin had 71 (2.0). If Quinn can get to two steals per game and provide steady on-ball pressure without letting his guy get into the paint, that would be tremendous for next year's team.

    We'll see what happens. I think 6 assists per game, 3.0 assist to TO ratio and 2.0 steals per game, coupled with a similar 40% from 3-land rate that he had this season, and Quinn will be 1st team All-ACC and could be in some All-American conversations.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Quinn went from 11 to 33 minutes per game. From 25.0% on 3s to 39.3%. From 1.9 assists to 5.3.

    His assist to turnover ratio was 2.4 (190 to 79). In contrast, Trey Burke was at 3.3 (222 to 67) and Lorenzo Brown was at 2.07 (230 to 111).

    If you assume Quinn gets a little more careful with the ball and a little more confident in pushing the pace and making plays, then I think he breaks the 3.0 assist to turnover ratio (with something like 210 assists and 70 turnovers).

    The biggest area where Quinn can improve and take Duke to another level is with his defense. This past season he had 51 steals on the season, or 1.4 per game. Payton Siva has 90 (2.3 per game), Carter-Williams had 111 (2.8) and Shane Larkin had 71 (2.0). If Quinn can get to two steals per game and provide steady on-ball pressure without letting his guy get into the paint, that would be tremendous for next year's team.

    We'll see what happens. I think 6 assists per game, 3.0 assist to TO ratio and 2.0 steals per game, coupled with a similar 40% from 3-land rate that he had this season, and Quinn will be 1st team All-ACC and could be in some All-American conversations.
    I tend to agree with all of that, with one possible exception. It would be almost unprecedented for a Duke PG to average a 3.0 assist/turnover ratio. I think Wojo still has the mark at 3.03 (Scheyer came just short of that at 2.98). I'd expect something between 2.5 and 2.7, but 3.0 would be really outstanding. On a side note, that 3.3 for Burke is just ridiculously good, especially when you consider how good a scorer he is as well.

    But if Cook can get into the 2.7+ assist/turnover ratio range, can up his scoring just a bit, and can improve defensively, I agree he'll absolutely be first-team All-ACC and will get All-American consideration.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Macon, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I tend to agree with all of that, with one possible exception. It would be almost unprecedented for a Duke PG to average a 3.0 assist/turnover ratio. I think Wojo still has the mark at 3.03 (Scheyer came just short of that at 2.98). I'd expect something between 2.5 and 2.7, but 3.0 would be really outstanding. On a side note, that 3.3 for Burke is just ridiculously good, especially when you consider how good a scorer he is as well.

    But if Cook can get into the 2.7+ assist/turnover ratio range, can up his scoring just a bit, and can improve defensively, I agree he'll absolutely be first-team All-ACC and will get All-American consideration.
    Technically Quinn averaged a 3.8 A/TO ratio his freshman year.

  13. #13
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichabod Drain View Post
    Technically Quinn averaged a 3.8 A/TO ratio his freshman year.
    touche. I should have said "unprecedented among players averaging at least 15 mpg and/or 2 apg."

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quinn made great strides this year. I'd like him to watch last night's title game as many times as he can stand to add the following to his game:

    Siva and Burke's overall competitiveness and demeanor:
    Both PGs were incredible last night in their will to win and leadership. It was the epitome of effort, putting it all on the line, and accountability, and you saw nary a hung head...it was all "next play"

    Siva's defense:
    The kid was relentless, nearly stealing every ball being dribbled within a 10 foot radius of his body and being a one-man fast break thwarter.

    Burke's ball handling:
    Burke has mastered the Steve Nash/Chris Paul stutter dribble where the ball handler blows by the defender, shifts his body between the ball and the defender isolating the defender on his back, and power dribbles in the lane with the defender desperately trying to get around them, looking to explode to the goal and finish, pull up for a floater, draw the defense and pass, or even dribble back out, all with one's head up. It is an essential modern day point guard skill.

    Attacking the rim:
    Burke and Siva both go right to the rim using the changes of speed and the aforementioned stutter dribble. Quinn needs to ditch those goofy floaters and convert more of his 5 feet and in chances.

    Transition:
    It's too bad we are losing Mason's end to end speed, because with the wings we have next year, we could have been a running team. We should be able to get out in transition more next year and I hope Quinn can push it.

    He is primed for a great rest of his Duke career. I look forward to watching him.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I tend to agree with all of that, with one possible exception. It would be almost unprecedented for a Duke PG to average a 3.0 assist/turnover ratio. I think Wojo still has the mark at 3.03 (Scheyer came just short of that at 2.98). I'd expect something between 2.5 and 2.7, but 3.0 would be really outstanding. On a side note, that 3.3 for Burke is just ridiculously good, especially when you consider how good a scorer he is as well.

    But if Cook can get into the 2.7+ assist/turnover ratio range, can up his scoring just a bit, and can improve defensively, I agree he'll absolutely be first-team All-ACC and will get All-American consideration.
    Quinn was at 190 assists and 79 tunrovers this past season in 33 minutes. I guess a lot depends on how you think his minutes change. It seems likely his minutes stay relatively the same - 32-34 minutes. Another factor is team turnovers. Duke was at 11 per game this year, 12 in 2012, 12 in 2011 and 11 in 2010. That's steady across Scheyer, Nolan, Kyrie, Seth, Tyler and Quinn. Seems like a safe bet to hold that constant.

    For Quinn to get to 210 assists on the year he would have to have 20 more which is 0.5 per game more. For Quinn to get to 70 turnovers he would have to have 9 fewer or 0.3 or so per game. Both are doable. As a reference point, Duhon's ATO ratio held pretty constant from junior to senior year. It could be that Quinn is a fully baked point guard at this point. I suspect not. I expect improvement on both ends.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC

    Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    Cook is our guy and I'm not going to bang on him!

    His development from Fr to So was what allowed us to have the year we had. And it was a good year! He doenst come thru and its a less good year. So I'm hopeful that he continues to develop and add new wrinkles to his game.

    At some point I suspect he either lost confidence or sustained an undisclosed injury (or both!) as he was not the same guy to close the season as he started the season IMHO..
    Not sure why that is exactly... But I look for him to be even better next year.
    I think think Quinn either lost confidence or was injured. Caught between a scoring point guard and a distributor. Or he had a nagging injury we don't know about. He's too good a player to play like he did at years end. GoQuinn and GoDuke!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Quinn went from 11 to 33 minutes per game. From 25.0% on 3s to 39.3%. From 1.9 assists to 5.3.

    His assist to turnover ratio was 2.4 (190 to 79). In contrast, Trey Burke was at 3.3 (222 to 67) and Lorenzo Brown was at 2.07 (230 to 111).

    If you assume Quinn gets a little more careful with the ball and a little more confident in pushing the pace and making plays, then I think he breaks the 3.0 assist to turnover ratio (with something like 210 assists and 70 turnovers).

    The biggest area where Quinn can improve and take Duke to another level is with his defense. This past season he had 51 steals on the season, or 1.4 per game. Payton Siva has 90 (2.3 per game), Carter-Williams had 111 (2.8) and Shane Larkin had 71 (2.0). If Quinn can get to two steals per game and provide steady on-ball pressure without letting his guy get into the paint, that would be tremendous for next year's team.

    We'll see what happens. I think 6 assists per game, 3.0 assist to TO ratio and 2.0 steals per game, coupled with a similar 40% from 3-land rate that he had this season, and Quinn will be 1st team All-ACC and could be in some All-American conversations.
    I mostly agree with your take, but I'm actually more concerned with the number of assists (as an imperfect proxy for managing the team's offense) than with the assist-turnover ratio. It's always a bit dangerous to look at stats from a small set of games, but in our six losses this year, Cook only averaged 4.5 assists, with only 2 in the UVa and the tournament Maryland loss. I don't think either Hurley or J. Williams ever got above even 2.5 A/TO ratio, if memory serves. While turnovers are of course "bad" and you'd prefer them to be as low as possible, all things considered I'd be perfectly happy if Cook had the same assist-turnover ratio but got his assist percentage up into the mid-30s (vs. 29% this year)--in other words, better direction of the team offense at the expense of an occasional turnover.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Quinn was at 190 assists and 79 tunrovers this past season in 33 minutes. I guess a lot depends on how you think his minutes change. It seems likely his minutes stay relatively the same - 32-34 minutes. Another factor is team turnovers. Duke was at 11 per game this year, 12 in 2012, 12 in 2011 and 11 in 2010. That's steady across Scheyer, Nolan, Kyrie, Seth, Tyler and Quinn. Seems like a safe bet to hold that constant.

    For Quinn to get to 210 assists on the year he would have to have 20 more which is 0.5 per game more. For Quinn to get to 70 turnovers he would have to have 9 fewer or 0.3 or so per game. Both are doable. As a reference point, Duhon's ATO ratio held pretty constant from junior to senior year. It could be that Quinn is a fully baked point guard at this point. I suspect not. I expect improvement on both ends.
    Wojo in 1997 is still the only Duke PG to average better than a 3-1 a/to ratio and he went 3.03:1. Scheyer was 2.98:1 in 2010.

    Since assists became an official stat, Duke has had 10 player-seasons at 6.0 or better apg. Hurley had four of those.

    So, if we're expecting 6.0 apg and 3.00:1 a/to ratio, we might be a tad on the optimistic side.

    FWIW, Cook is aware of the negative body language and his tendency to dwell on mistakes in lieu of moving on quickly. It has been mentioned to him. By the appropriate parties.

    A work in progress. But I think he was better as a sophomore than he was as a freshman and I think a continuation of that trend is both likely and beneficial.

  19. #19
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Of course Duke could run more next season and average 85 points per game. In that scenario Quinn's assists and turnovers would both likely be up.

    Super "What else should we be speculating about?" Dave

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Of course Duke could run more next season and average 85 points per game. In that scenario Quinn's assists and turnovers would both likely be up.

    Super "What else should we be speculating about?" Dave
    yes. i wouldn't mind some more turnovers if it's a result of a less cautious, run and gun type of offense. we will have the right players for that style. wojo and scheyer (with the 3:1 a-t ratios) both led pretty cautious versions of the Duke offense.

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