Horrible. Just plain horrible.

[ricks68]

Sorry to do this, as I like never post on the Off Topic board. I couldn't let this pass, however:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...rat-party?lite

ricks

[OldPhiKap]

Hard to imagine what the #$@$ they were thinking.

Guess that incorrectly presupposes thought.

Words fail.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Just saw that on MSN front page and the first thought that hit me was "how can so many incredibly smart people do something so incredibly stupid"...grrr.
Hated the ending too...

The paper quoted Vice President for Student Affairs Larry Moneta as saying no discipline was planned because it wouldn't resolve racial tensions on campus.

Well, sending a killer to prison won't prevent him from sticking a shank in his cellmate either, but at least it shows you did something.

[davekay1971]

The "apology" by the Kappa Sig president is amazingly lame. How about you should have had the common sense to not do something so amazingly stupid in the first place? Sadly, these are our brightest young people who live in a place where there is a large Asian-American peer group, and they're this inconsiderate. Says nothing good about the near future of race relations in the melting pot.

[weezie]

Kappa Sig, exactly why were they let back on campus? What's the background there? In 2002, wasn't there a pretty serious sexual accusation that ultimately was dropped for lack of evidence? And then, ancient news, they were in some truly weird trouble back in the 70s. I hope I'm not rumor-mongering, I'm trying not to but what the what is up with those guys.
Do they hang around with each other because they are stupid or are they stupid, etc, etc.

[davekay1971]

Kappa Sig, exactly why were they let back on campus? What's the background there? In 2002, wasn't there a pretty serious sexual accusation that ultimately was dropped for lack of evidence? And then, ancient news, they were in some truly weird trouble back in the 70s. I hope I'm not rumor-mongering, I'm trying not to but what the what is up with those guys.
Do they hang around with each other because they are stupid or are they stupid, etc, etc.

I can't imagine the acts of guys back in 2002, or, of course, the 1970s (I heard stories too, but have nothing to add about whether there was any truth to the stories), have much to do with the stupidity of a bunch of guys in 2013 (different players on the teams, each team has to run their own race, and all that). However, it is disconcerting when the same organization seems to find trouble again and again. All too often, young guys in some frats seem to feel like they have to live up to some sort of Animal House legacy, like they're just not doing their job if they aren't being adequately wild, shocking, or idiotic.

[Dev11]

KSig has only been 'back' on campus for two years. The students in the off-campus organization that was descended from an on-campus KSig did a fantastic job getting support for their reinstatement from the national KSig organization as well as campus leaders. I don't believe an incident like this is one that folks expected when they allowed KSig to recolonize.

[darthur]

Well, sending a killer to prison won't prevent him from sticking a shank in his cellmate either, but at least it shows you did something.

I wonder if they actually broke any official rules. They do deserve to be punished, but failed and inappropriate attempts at humor are a difficult thing to write rules for.

[Atlanta Duke]

Kappa Sig, exactly why were they let back on campus? What's the background there? In 2002, wasn't there a pretty serious sexual accusation that ultimately was dropped for lack of evidence?

The Kappa Sigs regained their charter from the national organization and then made their peace with the IFC last spring

“Now that [IFC] knows we have a year under our belts following Kappa Sigma guidelines—which are akin to all the other fraternity guidelines—they had a little more faith that we could be a part of their system,” .

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article...-return-campus

A 2002 article that The Chronicle links to stated the 2002 dissolution of the chapter was due to the evergreen problem of alcohol abuse

The group was supposed to have gone "dry"--or alcohol-free--last spring after a pledge was hospitalized for alcohol poisoning. After an intoxicated member fell out a section window earlier this semester, both the University and the fraternity's nationals became aware the fraternity was not dry.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article...ssolves-itself

That sound you hear is President Brodhead banging his head against the wall as Duke returns to the national news

[sagegrouse]

I wonder if they actually broke any official rules. They do deserve to be punished, but failed and inappropriate attempts at humor are a difficult thing to write rules for.

Isn't "stupidity" against some rule or another?

Kappa Sig Jack Marin ain't happy, and uberfan Doug Hinds is rolling over in his grave.

sagegrouse

[gotoguy]

Isn't "stupidity" against some rule or another?

Kappa Sig Jack Marin ain't happy, and uberfan Doug Hinds is rolling over in his grave.

sagegrouse

I thought stupid was what frat boys did in college. Did anyone die?

[Tom B.]

Just saw that on MSN front page and the first thought that hit me was "how can so many incredibly smart people do something so incredibly stupid"...grrr.
Hated the ending too...

"The paper quoted Vice President for Student Affairs Larry Moneta as saying no discipline was planned because it wouldn't resolve racial tensions on campus."

Well, sending a killer to prison won't prevent him from sticking a shank in his cellmate either, but at least it shows you did something.

Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of disciplinary action could be taken here. At the end of the day, the Kappa Sigs appear to have been guilty of racial insensitivity, bad judgment, very poor taste and general clodheadedness, but those things don't necessarily subject one to official discipline. Is there anything in Duke's official student policies or Greek Life regulations, or the IFC rules, about not engaging in racially derogatory conduct? If so, I guess that might provide an avenue for discipline, but I just don't know.

I did see that the Kappa Sig national organization has suspended the Duke chapter, at least for the time being, which seems appropriate:

http://news.yahoo.com/duke-fraternit...NR_gcAWITQtDMD

[77devil]

Kappa Sig, exactly why were they let back on campus? What's the background there? In 2002, wasn't there a pretty serious sexual accusation that ultimately was dropped for lack of evidence? And then, ancient news, they were in some truly weird trouble back in the 70s. I hope I'm not rumor-mongering, I'm trying not to but what the what is up with those guys.
Do they hang around with each other because they are stupid or are they stupid, etc, etc.

Kappa Sigs behaving badly. Some things never change. The weird trouble in the 70's was allegedly killing a quad dog in a fraternity ritual that is probably an urban legend. They did burn their furniture in a bonfire in the early 70's that was at least part of the the reason for being banned. Seems pretty tame though. Maybe there's more to the other story.

[Bostondevil]

I have to agree with Tom B. At the end of the day, it was a frat party. Insensitive? Yes. Worthy of disciplinary action? No. I can't agree with that. That picture they circulated was a still taken from the movie "Team America: World Police". I've been proud of my fellow Duke grad Ken Jeong's movie career which, let's face it, has been successful because of his ability to hilariously send up Asian stereotypes. The world at large is not going to change. We can encourage our student body to be more sensitive but I agree with what I think Larry Monata was trying to say (although I do not think he expressed himself well) severely punishing students for making jokes on well known stereotypes will not help relationships between living, breathing students on campus. It would, in fact, probably make things worse.

[duke79]

Yep, this "party" was amazingly stupid. I'm not sure what they were thinking about when they decided to throw this party. It is not a good sign when you wake up in the morning and one of the lead stories on The Today Show (in the first half hour) is about another scandel at Duke. I was actually cringing when the NBC reporter was broadcasting from the Duke campus. The only redeeming part of the stoy was when Matt Lauer referred to Duke as "one of the nation's most prestigious universities". LOL. Then I turned on my computer and the lead story on Yahoo News was about the Duke frat party. UGH !!

To make it worse, my late father was a Kappa Sigma at Duke back in the 40's. I'm sure he's rolling over in his grave. I don't remember the frat being particularly bad in the late 70's or early 80's when I was at Duke. I always sort of regarded them as non-descript.

[johnb]

Some Kappa Alphas apparently killed the dog(s) in the 70's. The Kappa Sigs did not.

I don't know the IFC charter, but I'd assume it's flexible enough that the party would definitely count as a strike against them. It's not just a "party," however, since it's akin to racist hate speech and should, therefore, be viewed as threatening behavior intended to ostracize a subgroup of people on campus (and, therefore,to elevate insiders; and, to complicate the message, I bet some of the insiders are Asians who are siding with the dominant subculture against more recent arrivals to this country of freedom).

The biggest punishment would be to simply submit a Kappa Sig brother list to the internet, and let the court of public opinion have at it. But that would be a different sort of violence.

While it may reflect a campus-wide (nation-wide??) prejudice, I think that's too easy an out. What if the targeted group had been women, or African Americans, or gays, or poor people, or any group that isn't composed of the dominant subgroup (straight white men, basically)?

I do wonder if the humor isn't a little dated as well as being a little stupid. Do people really view Asian Americans in such a light? Maybe I have been living in New York too long, but I haven't heard anyone make such statements in 25 years...

[comdytrd]

Sorry to do this, as I like never post on the Off Topic board. I couldn't let this pass, however:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...rat-party?lite

ricks

Several of us deactivated from the "brotherhood" in question in 1970, due to similar behavior. My independent older (blood) brother warned me that fraternities were "incubators for immaturity." In my two years with the chapter, I found it hard to dispute that assessment. But it was the promise by some to blackball any black candidate, regardless, that was the last straw for me. One explained that national Kappa Sig would not take kindly to his doing otherwise. I found my senior year as an independent to be much more fulfilling, for what it's worth.

[comdytrd]

Dang, did I kill another thread? Sorry.

Do fraternities even use the "one blackball" is all it takes method anymore?