Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 56
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC Duke Fan View Post
    I am not a UNC fan nor do I intend for this post to be negative. I am hoping for an intelligent answer or answers.

    When Zoubek committed to Duke there was great enthusiasm and when Thomas announced that he had chosen Duke over Rutgers and maybe Florida more enthusiasm for what ," experts", said was one of the top recruiting classes. These were 2 top 20 players. Unless there are some out there who have seen it differently, I have not seen any progress during the year from either player. Does anyone have an explanation save for the statement as it pertains to Zoubek that it takes longer for a big man to develop? There are many freshmen around making major contributions.

    Nelson is a nice player but not the one Duke fans thought. He is the All Time leader in points scored in the State Of California and was ," Mr. Basketball", there. I know that he was hurt his first 2 years...is that the reason for his developement.

    Once again I am hoping for an intelligent answer.

    Thank you
    Want an intelligent answer, how about intelligent expectations?

    1. Nelson has yet to put in a full healthy season until this year. Anyone paying attention could see that Markie struggled shooting a jumper coming into Duke. As a result of his injury issues, he's had very little opportunity to work on this part of his game. Same goes for ball-handling.

    2. Zoubek has very little lower body strength making it very difficult for him to establish any comfortable position in the paint. Zoub's actually has some very nice skills in the paint but until he gains some strength he will have trouble using those skills. Also, you can't teach quickness.

    3. Thomas came into Duke as a guy with potential to make an impact but no standout basketball skills. Lance made a living attacking the basket in high school. Against this level of competition, he simply hasn't had the strength to do this. Also, he simply doesn't provide any type of perimeter threat to offset this. If Lance were to develop a decent 12-15 jump shot (similar to what Brian Davis did) then I think he could develop into a very nice player for Duke. He's got excellent potential on defense.

  2. #22
    I agree with you pops! besides hustle i havent seen a good deal out of lance. when i heard the hype about him and how much we needed him i thought he was a good rebounder and would provide some much needed scoring for us. Dmark is what you see what you will get. His shot is 50/50 and he really has no handle. I think Z needs not only strength but an agility coach! to me he seems really shaky out there. i dont know if its freshman nerves or what but he looks akward! I am glad to see henderson coming out of his shell! he seems to be getting more confidence with each passing game.

  3. #23
    Singler is taking somebody's minutes, who do you think that will be? I think Smith is going to take some minutes also. I am not sure what to think of Lance, he is only a freshman but he will really need to pick it up next year.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY

    Living up to expectations

    I don't like the premise of this thread. It implies that our guys haven't lived up to expectations. If said by one of the players or by a member of the coaching staff, that is useful information. Coming from people who don't know these guys well at all, it just seems wrongheaded. The transition to college is a big deal (athletically, socially, and academically), and it's even harder when it's played out on national television. Very few of our greatest players were as studly as freshmen as they were when they were upperclassmen. For example, Bobby Hurley now lives on Mount Olympus, but I recall cringing at his youthful passes into the stands, and, while Grant Hill always looked smooth, he didn't break out until the Final Four dunk that astonished everyone. Corey Maggette can start in the NBA, but he didn't start at Duke as a freshman. Even Christian Laettner had a freshman year that included his missing free throws that cost us a game in the Meadlowlands (and led to a locker room pat on the back by R. Nixon). The rest of us get off free (for example, I don't think Lance Thomas wrote in to comment on the original posters poor subject-verb agreement, and presumably the poster took English at some point). Yeah, it would be nice if one of those three guys were playing like Kevin Durant. If that had been the case all season, we wouldn't be playing on Thursday. So they're playing like excellent, solid freshman on a top 20 team. That's pretty good, and I'd say that we would be better off without the sniping.

  5. #25
    Hi everybody. Sorry if this will be a sad post, and sorry again for eventual typos/grammar error (English is not my mother tongue).
    Used to post here a couple of years ago (under A Devil in Europe nick), then quit for laziness and lack of time. I'm back and ready to be flamed.
    Well, LT and Zou didn't show a sign of progress despite their high HS rankings for the same reason Shav+Thompson+Domzalski+Boateng+Boykin+Sanders etc didn't do the same. Simply, K and the staff cannot help them because they don't have the capacity to help them and teach how to build a real inside game.
    All Duke star in the paint from the recent past (e.g: Brand, Booz) already came to Durham as finished players. When this kind of guys commit, than everything is ok, otherwise the 'other kind of guys' start warming the bench comes the first defensive error/silly fault or whatever.
    This is it, IMHO. This, for instance, would have been Kaun's destiny if he had committed to Duke instead of KU. From what I've seen he's a lot better player than he was on his first year in Lawrence.
    Every player cited above was at least a top 20-30 guy (or better). This cannot be a casuality, guys. Now, maybe if K could hire some specialists (it's hard for me to believe Wojo can teach a dropstep to a 6-10 guy...) and stop being harsh and obsessive with our 1st and 2nd year post guys.
    This makes a couple with the fact that DU inside game was almost non-existant as soon as Booz left Durham. Carlos was our last reliable, already finished post player. After him a dark veil fell on our team. I'm dead sick of all these motherloads of threes, to live and die by them. It's been a long time since I saw some real real good offensive plays. JJ is playing in Orlando, K. Live with it and adapt our game to what we have...
    I'm more and more convinced about this.
    Now, before my flaming begins, let me say "Go Devils" whatever may come.

    Kind regards
    Marco

  6. #26

    Are you sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by ikiru36 View Post
    I would not consider either of them disappointments at all relative to what I'd heard about them prior to arriving (they were, by anything I'd read, rated well but below Henderson and Scheyer anyways). As interior players, strength/bulk is a major issue and chronological age seems to make a huge difference (in combination with the ability to focus on strength training each off-season). Not only is Duke's team young in terms of year (Freshman/Sophomore...etc.), but their chronological ages are fairly young as well. Both Zoubek and Thomas are still 18 years old and sophomore Josh McRoberts just turned 20 a few days ago.

    By comparison, G. Vasquez, a freshman guard at Maryland turned 20 already a few months back, and sophomore Tyler Hansbrough has been 21 years old for months now as well.

    Though his bigger issues have been with injuries delaying his maturation (and I agree that he should now benefit from the opportunity to spend a summer focusing more on skills than strength), our sole Junior Demarcus Nelson has the exact same day of birth as Sophomore Hansbrough.

    Although just a few months may not make that much of a difference, for whatever it is worth, each of UNC's top freshman, Ellington, Lawson and B.Wright were already 19 by the 1st week of November last year.

    BTW-I'm guessing that Josh's chronological age is definately not lost on NBA Scouts, in comparisons with, say, Hansborough. Although they certainly could be wrong about his ability to mature, I'm sure they project what McRoberts might be able to improve in terms of strength and skill (especially since he lost most of last summer to back surgery) over the next 16 months as that is how much younger he is than TH.

    As one final caveat, there are some guys who are amazingly developed physically for their chronological age and this cannot be taught and absolutely stands out (Deng, Brand and Maggette come to mind for Duke). Frightningly, and partly accounting for why Durant may be selected above the best Center prospect in a decade, he is still 18 for another 7 months (and therefore more than 8 months younger than Oden). Yikes! Durant is EXTREMELY special.
    I agree with all of your commentary on the ages. This reminds me of Ed Cota coming to Carolina as a 20 year old freshman. How does a player a full 18-20 months older (Hansbrough vs. McRoberts) end up in the same high school class? (no answers required...just a rhetorical)

    My only disagreement may be on Greg Oden, because I don't see how he can be any less than about 32. I don't care what the paperwork says.

  7. #27
    LT and Z showing no signs of progress? Boozer polished as a freshman? Shel's inside game nonexistent?

    It's hard to believe we're watching the same games.

  8. #28

    Right On!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Berg View Post
    If you haven't seen dramatic improvement in the play of Thomas and Zoubek since the start of the season, you haven't been watching.

    Agreed RB, and I think that Thomas plays his best defense out of the paint! I have never seen a big man get so close to the ball handler and force him to pick up his dribble, and then smother him. I will admit that when Z gets the ball in the low post and pauses(seems like 5 min.) I hold my breath until I know he is not going to be called for traveling. I have joked a couple of times to the people around me that the ref. takes a big breath ready to blow the whistle every time he touches the ball. ala Shav. on defense. It's like they know it's going to happen, they just have to find the most obvious moment to do it. Now, some were certainly justified, but sometimes it seemed like the whistle was blown before he even moved at all

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    Nelson has been fine IMO, given his injuries in the past years. I tend to agree that his game maybe was better in high school where he could over power guys (3rd leading rebounder in CA history!) but with some work on his very flat-looking shot I think he will be just fine.
    You bring up a good point. While Demarcus does not have the ugliest shot in basketball history, it is FAR from textbook. The ball sits flat in the palm of his hand, the elbow of his shooting arm is out of line with the target, and the release is flat and lacks rotation. Granted, it is difficult to correct lifelong habits and re-wire muscle memory, but not to address these obvious technical problems when they obviously limit his free throw accuracy (59%!) is puzzling.

    Do the Duke coaches not want to tinker with shooting form? I'm sure they work on other technical aspects of a player's game (footwork, etc).

  10. #30

    Shot mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by GopherBlue View Post
    You bring up a good point. While Demarcus does not have the ugliest shot in basketball history, it is FAR from textbook. The ball sits flat in the palm of his hand, the elbow of his shooting arm is out of line with the target, and the release is flat and lacks rotation. Granted, it is difficult to correct lifelong habits and re-wire muscle memory, but not to address these obvious technical problems when they obviously limit his free throw accuracy (59%!) is puzzling.

    Do the Duke coaches not want to tinker with shooting form? I'm sure they work on other technical aspects of a player's game (footwork, etc).
    Duke coaches definitely do work on a players shooting form. Watch tape of Bobby Hurley as a freshman and then as a senior. They totally changed his release point and form. My guess is that DeMarcus was working so hard on rehab and conditioning that his shooting form may have been a secondary priority this past summer.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ikiru36 View Post
    I would not consider either of them disappointments at all relative to what I'd heard about them prior to arriving (they were, by anything I'd read, rated well but below Henderson and Scheyer anyways). As interior players, strength/bulk is a major issue and chronological age seems to make a huge difference (in combination with the ability to focus on strength training each off-season). Not only is Duke's team young in terms of year (Freshman/Sophomore...etc.), but their chronological ages are fairly young as well. Both Zoubek and Thomas are still 18 years old and sophomore Josh McRoberts just turned 20 a few days ago.

    By comparison, G. Vasquez, a freshman guard at Maryland turned 20 already a few months back, and sophomore Tyler Hansbrough has been 21 years old for months now as well.

    Although just a few months may not make that much of a difference, for whatever it is worth, each of UNC's top freshman, Ellington, Lawson and B.Wright were already 19 by the 1st week of November last year.

    As one final caveat, there are some guys who are amazingly developed physically for their chronological age and this cannot be taught and absolutely stands out (Deng, Brand and Maggette come to mind for Duke). Frightningly, and partly accounting for why Durant may be selected above the best Center prospect in a decade, he is still 18 for another 7 months (and therefore more than 8 months younger than Oden). Yikes! Durant is EXTREMELY special.
    This reminds me of a fascinating study (for which I cannot find a reference) looking at the birth months of professional soccer players in Europe and South America, and reports that the vast majority (something like >75%) of the players at the highest levels were born in the first several 3 or 4 months of the their respective age groups (eg, Jan-Mar for regions where the class cut-out is the calendar year). The implication being that throughout the grade school years, kids that are on the older end of the class or team get more development opportunities (playing time, reps, coaching attention, encouragement, etc) than the younger kids on the team, and thus progress to the higher levels of competition with a greater frequency. Apparently the offshoot is to group kids into teams by 6-month increments, thereby minimizing this effect and increasing the potential talent pool.

    Being one of the disadvantaged younger ones, I find great comfort in this excuse!

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Annandale, VA

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by ItalianDevil411 View Post
    Well, LT and Zou didn't show a sign of progress despite their high HS rankings for the same reason Shav+Thompson+Domzalski+Boateng+Boykin+Sanders etc didn't do the same. Simply, K and the staff cannot help them because they don't have the capacity to help them and teach how to build a real inside game.
    All Duke star in the paint from the recent past (e.g: Brand, Booz) already came to Durham as finished players. When this kind of guys commit, than everything is ok, otherwise the 'other kind of guys' start warming the bench comes the first defensive error/silly fault or whatever.
    This is it, IMHO. This, for instance, would have been Kaun's destiny if he had committed to Duke instead of KU. From what I've seen he's a lot better player than he was on his first year in Lawrence.
    Every player cited above was at least a top 20-30 guy (or better). This cannot be a casuality, guys. Now, maybe if K could hire some specialists (it's hard for me to believe Wojo can teach a dropstep to a 6-10 guy...) and stop being harsh and obsessive with our 1st and 2nd year post guys.
    This makes a couple with the fact that DU inside game was almost non-existant as soon as Booz left Durham. Carlos was our last reliable, already finished post player. After him a dark veil fell on our team. I'm dead sick of all these motherloads of threes, to live and die by them. It's been a long time since I saw some real real good offensive plays. JJ is playing in Orlando, K. Live with it and adapt our game to what we have...
    I'm more and more convinced about this.
    Now, before my flaming begins, let me say "Go Devils" whatever may come.

    Kind regards
    Marco
    Don't you remember Shelden Williams? You know, the guy who broke the school records for rebounds and blocks while falling just 72 points shy of amassing 2,000 points !!!
    The Gordog

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gordog View Post
    Don't you remember Shelden Williams? You know, the guy who broke the school records for rebounds and blocks while falling just 72 points shy of amassing 2,000 points !!!
    +1. sorry but I still don't realize Shelden isnt' in Royal Blue anymore.
    anyway I don't see any K in his progress during his 4 years in Royal Blue.
    for who contests Shav inside progresses... man, I suggest you to have an optician change... If you really saw improvements in Shav's game I may have missed something, really. could you please send me some tapes of his 25+ games ?

  14. #34

    No Zoubek????

    Why no Zoubek? Is he hurt, is he sick? I mean for christ's sake, the kid is 7 foot tall....maybe he can't jump over a rock in a driveway, but he's 7 foot? Does anyone think he might have helped keep the VCU players from driving and just putting floaters up? I mean, it's not hard when you're 6'3" and you're shooting over a 6'1" Paulus.

  15. #35
    they were too quick for Z at this stage of his development.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Houston
    His lack of quickness was a factor, sure, but in my opinion that's only the tip of the iceberg. For one, he doesn't seem to be mentally tough. The thing that impressed me about Zoubek early on was his great footwork--if he can only start putting the ball in the basket, I thought, he'd be a real force. After getting called for one travel, though, he became a basket case. Every time--literally, at least for a stretch--he touched the ball, he'd shuffle his feet and get whistled. He let one play ruin his entire season. Secondly, I frankly don't think he's too concerned with basketball right now. He's a frequent attendee to frat parties, goes out during the week, and is quite popular with the ladies; in short, from a student's perspective, his focus is clearly elsewhere. He just needs to adjust to college life, put his traveling demons behind him, and play with confidence. I think he can be a very effective player in the future. That said, the fact that he didn't play tonight against such an undersized team tells me that the coaching staff has little to no confidence in him--he's in the doghouse.

  17. #37
    Well, if that's the case....especially for a kid who was down to Stanford, Duke and Wake Forest for schools/academics, I'd have to say I'm a little disappointed. I know kids go through the college phase....but damnit, you're getting a free education from one of the best universities in the country for FREE, you're playing ball on the biggest stage in the college world....and you can't stay away from frat parties and buckle down??? Not mentally tough sounds right.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by dukewray View Post
    Well, if that's the case....especially for a kid who was down to Stanford, Duke and Wake Forest for schools/academics, I'd have to say I'm a little disappointed. I know kids go through the college phase....but damnit, you're getting a free education from one of the best universities in the country for FREE, you're playing ball on the biggest stage in the college world....and you can't stay away from frat parties and buckle down??? Not mentally tough sounds right.
    Zoubek should have his scholarship rescinded for daring to have fun.

  19. #39
    I'm sorry that I hold athletes to a higher standard. I mean, ask the kid who's got over $100,000 in loans after he graduates from Duke if he'd love to sit the pine and be able to go to frat parties and be a ladies man, all the while getting his/her education paid for by Iron Dukes who expect you to PRACTICE rather than be hanging out at frat parties....

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    I don't get it. We did not use our size advantage. Even when McBob got the ball he was still far from the basket. I would have thought that Zoubek could have contributed something. Coach K was outcoached. I feel sick. Go E. Ky.

Similar Threads

  1. Could Zoubek be the Final Piece to this team?
    By dukelion in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 02-29-2008, 10:04 PM
  2. Zoubek breaks foot--again
    By jimsumner in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 114
    Last Post: 01-14-2008, 08:19 AM
  3. How's Zoubek doing?
    By Zeke in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 136
    Last Post: 10-05-2007, 04:43 PM
  4. Duke will be fine with Zoubek and Thomas
    By dukelion in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 05-17-2007, 08:07 PM
  5. Zoubek
    By Classof06 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 03-02-2007, 05:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •