Strange NFL rule

[sporthenry]

What a crock of a rule. It is hard to argue that you want to get things right when a coach's mistake re: a play that would have been reviewed anyway causes the opponent to ring up a touchdown that wasn't. Under no circumstances should a legal review be cancelled out like that. Just hand the coach his flag back and review the play.

The NFL spends too much time inventing non-essential rules and in the process changing the fundamental playing of football. The most annoying, of course, are the contortions the league has gone through trying to define what is a legal catch and what is not. The college rule works just fine, and the old pro rule was just the same except for the two feet inbounds instead of one. Nobody believes a player should have to do some magical things to legally catch a ball; just have possession as you touch the ground. I can't see where delaying the instant the ball is deemed caught changes anything. The same decision has to be made no matter how many steps are added to the catchng of the ball, which is now a ballet of some sort. The term "football move" is just wacky. EVERY SECOND is a football move.

The magic part was Jason Evans' pointing out the rule just in time for this latest proof that the NFL can do some stupid stuff.

I agree. The biggest thing about this is the crime doesn't fit the punishment at all. Instead of 15 yards and disallowing the challenge, perhaps just the 15 yards is enough. How much more time is wasted by the red challenge flag? I think a fairer way to do it is either charge a timeout or just treat it as a normal challenge by that team in essence wasting one of their challenges especially if it is wrong.

[OldPhiKap]

If the purpose of replay is to "get it right" it is hard to fathom a rule that thwarts that on a techinicality -- and then punishes the "offender."

Review the play, call the red flag a nullity. Or have the penalty be loss of a time out if you really need to penalize it. But the current result is just plain dumb.

[bjornolf]

I agree. The biggest thing about this is the crime doesn't fit the punishment at all. Instead of 15 yards and disallowing the challenge, perhaps just the 15 yards is enough. How much more time is wasted by the red challenge flag? I think a fairer way to do it is either charge a timeout or just treat it as a normal challenge by that team in essence wasting one of their challenges especially if it is wrong.

All these plays are reviewed upstairs anyway. They did this punitively because a lot of coaches were throwing the flag on plays that weren't challengable just to buy some time to either (a) get more time for the booth to call a full review or (b) get what amounts to a free timeout while arguing the validity of the challenge. It was getting a little silly and really slowing down games a few years ago, so the league decided to address it by saying "Fine, we'll review these plays upstairs automatically, but we're going to come down hard and not review it if you throw a bad challenge flag when you KNOW you shouldn't."

With all the money these teams pay staffs, I think they should hire a guy to carry the flag for the coach. This guy's whole job would be to know the challenge rules inside out and not let the head coach have the flag if it's not challengable. A lot of coaches just reach into that back pocket and throw it w/o thinking. The extra step of asking a guy for the flag might make him think twice. Not to mention the extra set of eyes to stop him. If he saves the team even once, and it saves even one game (like it might have in BOTH games this week), it would be worth it.

[JasonEvans]

I deserve some kind of prize for being psychic, don't I?

I have to say Detroit's was even worse than Atlanta's. I think the review in Atlanta would not have overturned the fumble recovery for being out of bounds. In Detroit, that was clearly one of the worst calls a ref will make.

The punishment really does not fit the crime if you disallow a turnover/TD review. These are the two most important types of plays in the game and to take reply away on them is really absurd. There are other penalties that would work in this case as a deterrent while not potentialy allowing a horrible miscarriage of justice.

-Jason "I predict the NFL deals with this very soon as everyone seems to think the penalty is too harsh" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

I deserve some kind of prize for being psychic, don't I?

I will say that as I was watching the play, my first thought was your OP on this. I knew the answer before the announcers did.

DBR leads the way again.

[JasonEvans]

-Jason "I predict the NFL deals with this very soon as everyone seems to think the penalty is too harsh" Evans

And right on cue, the NFL says they are reviewing this particular rule and could change it before the regular season is done or for the playoffs. Can you imagine the outcry if some absurd application of the "you can't challenge that obviously wrong call" rule happened and cost a team a playoff win?!?!

Of course, the best part of the linkled article is the explanation by a NFL executive about why the rule exists in the first place...

"The rule was put in place really to prevent a team in a challenge situation from creating a delay," Blandino said, according to NFL.com. "They're thinking about challenging the play, they commit a foul, jump offside, false start, now they've given themselves more time to make that decision.

ok, that is reasonable, but how does throwing a challenge flag equate with trying to delay the game to get a play challenged? There is no "delaying" tactic here to give a team more time to make a decision. The decision to challenge the play has already been made. He is talking about a situation that in no way resembles the one here. And, to make his explanation even more ridiculous, there is no "decision" going on here. All scoring and turnover plays are automatically reviewed. How does a coach throwing the flag impact whether or not the play is reviewed? It is automatically reviewed!!

The NFL created a stupid rule and did not realize the implications of it -- that is the simple answer here.

-Jason "anyone want tomorrow's lottery numbers? I am on a roll!!" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

-Jason "anyone want tomorrow's lottery numbers? I am on a roll!!" Evans

#DrunkNateSilver goes up to women on the train and says, "I already know your number."

Not sure if I can repeat what #DrunkJasonEvans does. Decorum prohibits.

[bjornolf]

ok, that is reasonable, but how does throwing a challenge flag equate with trying to delay the game to get a play challenged? There is no "delaying" tactic here to give a team more time to make a decision. The decision to challenge the play has already been made. He is talking about a situation that in no way resembles the one here. And, to make his explanation even more ridiculous, there is no "decision" going on here. All scoring and turnover plays are automatically reviewed. How does a coach throwing the flag impact whether or not the play is reviewed? It is automatically reviewed!!

The NFL created a stupid rule and did not realize the implications of it -- that is the simple answer here.

-Jason "anyone want tomorrow's lottery numbers? I am on a roll!!" Evans

That's a little harsh. Back when replay started, coaches would throw flags at bad times, like in the last two minutes, knowing it wasn't challengable, making the ref come over and explain why he couldn't challenge, to give the upstairs reviewers more time to call a review to prevent the opposing team running up to the line and getting the play off before a review could be called. This is to prevent that. I think a simple delay of game penalty would be appropriate. You have to remember, the play is reviewed, but the upstairs refs have to have time to review it and determine that the refs on the field should go under the hood and look at it and then call down. If the other team runs up to the line and gets a play off, the review officials might not have time to call down. The coach throwing the flag can, in fact, be a tactic to delay the game to give those officials more time. I'm not saying that this was the case in these games, but it could be.

[throatybeard]

-Jason "anyone want tomorrow's lottery numbers? I am on a roll!!" Evans

Amateur. I killed Herbert Lom.

[A-Tex Devil]

That's a little harsh. Back when replay started, coaches would throw flags at bad times, like in the last two minutes, knowing it wasn't challengable, making the ref come over and explain why he couldn't challenge, to give the upstairs reviewers more time to call a review to prevent the opposing team running up to the line and getting the play off before a review could be called. This is to prevent that. I think a simple delay of game penalty would be appropriate. You have to remember, the play is reviewed, but the upstairs refs have to have time to review it and determine that the refs on the field should go under the hood and look at it and then call down. If the other team runs up to the line and gets a play off, the review officials might not have time to call down. The coach throwing the flag can, in fact, be a tactic to delay the game to give those officials more time. I'm not saying that this was the case in these games, but it could be.

I am a Texans fan and think the rule probably needs to be limited to the 15 yard penalty when there is already going to be an automatic review. But I definitely understand the spirit of the rule, especially in light of what Jim Harbaugh did with the replacement refs earlier this year.

But to play devil's advocate for a moment --- if every turnover and touchdown is initially reviewed by the booth to determine if the on-the-field ref should take a closer look (and that's how it works, I believe), wouldn't a coach throwing the flag potentially influence the guy in the booth? That's the reason for the rule in the final 2 minutes, and the process for TDs and TOs are the same as that in the final 2 minutes. We would hope the booth wouldn't be influenced like that, but who knows?

[sporthenry]

I am a Texans fan and think the rule probably needs to be limited to the 15 yard penalty when there is already going to be an automatic review. But I definitely understand the spirit of the rule, especially in light of what Jim Harbaugh did with the replacement refs earlier this year.

But to play devil's advocate for a moment --- if every turnover and touchdown is initially reviewed by the booth to determine if the on-the-field ref should take a closer look (and that's how it works, I believe), wouldn't a coach throwing the flag potentially influence the guy in the booth? That's the reason for the rule in the final 2 minutes, and the process for TDs and TOs are the same as that in the final 2 minutes. We would hope the booth wouldn't be influenced like that, but who knows?

Influenced how? To review the call? If one coach thinks that strongly to throw the flag, I would think it is worth reviewing. Like I said earlier, keep the replay rules the same but if a coach throws a flag, then treat it as a normal challenge. There have been several calls this year that weren't reviewed that I thought upon replay was close enough for a review. Heck, Jeff Fisher challenged a call that wasn't going to be reviewed with the replacement refs and they reviewed it and overturned it. Now you can say those were the replacement refs but as I understand it, the guy in the booth wasn't replacement so I think a team should have some way to challenge these things if they feel so strongly.

[JasonEvans]

I am a Texans fan and think the rule probably needs to be limited to the 15 yard penalty when there is already going to be an automatic review. But I definitely understand the spirit of the rule.

I have no problem with a 5 yard delay of game or even a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. I could see either of those being appropriate. However, nullifying the review is a formula for disaster. In the case of the Houston-Detroit game, the effect of this was allowing an obviously incorrect official's ruling to stand. That is what the NFL cannot have happen. The whole point of replay is to correct official mistakes. Failing to allow that correction to occur is not just a penalty to the team that was wronged, it is an affront to fairness and sportsmanship.

--Jason "4 8 15 16 23 42 -- this week's lottery numbers" Evans