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  1. #1
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    ACC Media Day - Duke

    I have been waiting for someone like Jim Sumner to post thoughts about media day - and maybe that's coming because it hasn't been concluded for very long, but I did hear something interesting amidst the coverage and tweets that have been emerging:

    Andy Katz Interview with Coach K
    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...ike-krzyzewski

    K on Marshall Plumlee - "He was in our top 6 best players before he got hurt"

    WOW - maybe the thought (mine and others) that he wasn't going to get much run this year was not on target.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    I have been waiting for someone like Jim Sumner to post thoughts about media day - and maybe that's coming because it hasn't been concluded for very long, but I did hear something interesting amidst the coverage and tweets that have been emerging:

    Andy Katz Interview with Coach K
    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...ike-krzyzewski

    K on Marshall Plumlee - "He was in our top 6 best players before he got hurt"

    WOW - maybe the thought (mine and others) that he wasn't going to get much run this year was not on target.
    Yeah, that's a big surprise. Now we'll just have to see if he comes back from his injury ready to contribute or not, because a lot of times missing a long period with injury sets a youngster back. K also said that Tyler will be backing up all 3 perimeter positions (which may or may not be a statement about Rasheed's readiness). Somewhat ominous, however, was K saying he hoped Seth's injury didn't bother him all year. It never even occurred to me that Seth's injury was that serious. Yikes!

    On the good side, I saw on twitter that Coach K said Quinn is quicker than he was before he got injured in high school and much stronger. Which if true would be excellent news.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Yeah, that's a big surprise. Now we'll just have to see if he comes back from his injury ready to contribute or not, because a lot of times missing a long period with injury sets a youngster back. K also said that Tyler will be backing up all 3 perimeter positions (which may or may not be a statement about Rasheed's readiness). Somewhat ominous, however, was K saying he hoped Seth's injury didn't bother him all year. It never even occurred to me that Seth's injury was that serious. Yikes!
    Definintely concerning. But other comments from Krzyzewski and Mason seemed to suggest that Marshall's injury might end up being closer to the 4 week end of the 4-6 weeks.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2007
    Also, another preseason poll.

    Duke picked to finish second, Mason picked as preseason All-ACC.

  5. #5

    Plumlee's injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Yeah, that's a big surprise. Now we'll just have to see if he comes back from his injury ready to contribute or not, because a lot of times missing a long period with injury sets a youngster back. K also said that Tyler will be backing up all 3 perimeter positions (which may or may not be a statement about Rasheed's readiness). Somewhat ominous, however, was K saying he hoped Seth's injury didn't bother him all year. It never even occurred to me that Seth's injury was that serious. Yikes!

    On the good side, I saw on twitter that Coach K said Quinn is quicker than he was before he got injured in high school and much stronger. Which if true would be excellent news.
    K's statement that MP3 was among Duke's six best players was a surprise.

    As for your question about how much a setback his injury will turn out to be is valid ... Mason, who missed almost four weeks of preseason with a broken wrist his freshman year, was asked about that and suggested that it will have a lot less impact on his brother because he's a redshirt and doesn't have to learn the system and his place in it. It would be much more disruptive if he was a true freshman missing preseason.

    K kind of agreed with that reasoning, pointing out that he and the team already know Marshall's place on the team ... and so does Marshall. He seemed to focus on the four-week timeframe too.

    They are being very cagey about Seth's problem. He's going to continue to practice, but his status will be re-evuated every day. All that they'll say is it's a lower leg injury.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Yeah, that's a big surprise. Now we'll just have to see if he comes back from his injury ready to contribute or not, because a lot of times missing a long period with injury sets a youngster back. K also said that Tyler will be backing up all 3 perimeter positions (which may or may not be a statement about Rasheed's readiness). Somewhat ominous, however, was K saying he hoped Seth's injury didn't bother him all year. It never even occurred to me that Seth's injury was that serious. Yikes!

    On the good side, I saw on twitter that Coach K said Quinn is quicker than he was before he got injured in high school and much stronger. Which if true would be excellent news.
    It sounds like a six man rotation on the horizon (Alex sliding to the 4 when Ryan or Mason sit), with 7-12 totaling less than #6. Yikes. Hopefully, it means Tyler has stepped up his game in a big way from last year.

  7. #7

    rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    It sounds like a six man rotation on the horizon (Alex sliding to the 4 when Ryan or Mason sit), with 7-12 totaling less than #6. Yikes. Hopefully, it means Tyler has stepped up his game in a big way from last year.
    I don't see where this come from -- all it means is that Marshall is ahead of Jefferson and Hairston and our backup guards in the rotation. Why does that mean it's a six-man rotation?

    Let's see ... K also said that Seth was in the top three -- I assumed that means the three seniors, who has repeatedly said are the heart of the team.

    Four and five would seem to be Murphy and Cook (at least both are starting at the moment). That puts MP3 ahead of Suliamon and Thornton. I'm sure both will be in the rotation, and probably one of Jefferson and Hairston -- both until MP3 comes back.

    I think it's a sign of how far MP3 has come along ... well, he is 7-foot, 240 and wants to be a true center. I think we could find a use for that.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I don't see where this come from -- all it means is that Marshall is ahead of Jefferson and Hairston and our backup guards in the rotation. Why does that mean it's a six-man rotation?

    Let's see ... K also said that Seth was in the top three -- I assumed that means the three seniors, who has repeatedly said are the heart of the team.

    Four and five would seem to be Murphy and Cook (at least both are starting at the moment). That puts MP3 ahead of Suliamon and Thornton. I'm sure both will be in the rotation, and probably one of Jefferson and Hairston -- both until MP3 comes back.

    I think it's a sign of how far MP3 has come along ... well, he is 7-foot, 240 and wants to be a true center. I think we could find a use for that.
    Yeah, I can't see Thornton not being a rotation player. Aside from being capable, he has long appeared to be a favorite of Coach K's. I do think that favoritism works its way into players getting burn. I really don't see Thornton not getting minutes.

    That would make a rotation of at least 7 guys.

  9. #9
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    All nine recruited players should play early. I can see one of Marshall, Hairston and Jefferson getting squeezed down the line. But maybe not. Duke only has 10 recruited players, only four of whom are guards.

    K said today that he told the three seniors back in the spring that it was their team. He has consistently stated that they are his three best players.

    K keeps saying that Mason is one of the nation's best players. Not can be, should be, might be. Is.

    Kelly says he's worked on his inside game and has made rebounding a priority. But he's still a stretch 4. Completely, 100% healthy.

    Lots of buzz about Murphy. It's one thing when fans compare Murphy to Singler but his teammates are doing the same thing. Murphy tells me he spent a lot of time working on his outside shot and is determined not to just be a slasher on offense.

    Cook was never fully healthy last season. He is fully healthy this year. The difference should be significant. He'll start.

    Look for Curry to play off the ball. K says Curry has improved his communication skills.

    Hairston is up to 240. It looks like a good 240, unlike last season, when he seemed a tad doughy. To me, anyway.

    Jefferson is long. Built like a beanpole. But long.

    Sulaimon can be a defensive stopper. Great personality. Both freshman are bright and articulate. But you knew that.

    The players rave about Rodney Hood. Just rave. K calls him a 6-8 guard.

    More later.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    All nine recruited players should play early. I can see one of Marshall, Hairston and Jefferson getting squeezed down the line. But maybe not. Duke only has 10 recruited players, only four of whom are guards.

    K said today that he told the three seniors back in the spring that it was their team. He has consistently stated that they are his three best players.

    K keeps saying that Mason is one of the nation's best players. Not can be, should be, might be. Is.

    Kelly says he's worked on his inside game and has made rebounding a priority. But he's still a stretch 4. Completely, 100% healthy.

    Lots of buzz about Murphy. It's one thing when fans compare Murphy to Singler but his teammates are doing the same thing. Murphy tells me he spent a lot of time working on his outside shot and is determined not to just be a slasher on offense.

    Cook was never fully healthy last season. He is fully healthy this year. The difference should be significant. He'll start.

    Look for Curry to play off the ball. K says Curry has improved his communication skills.

    Hairston is up to 240. It looks like a good 240, unlike last season, when he seemed a tad doughy. To me, anyway.

    Jefferson is long. Built like a beanpole. But long.

    Sulaimon can be a defensive stopper. Great personality. Both freshman are bright and articulate. But you knew that.

    The players rave about Rodney Hood. Just rave. K calls him a 6-8 guard.

    More later.
    Great report, thanks Jim. Any insight on Seth's condition?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Great report, thanks Jim. Any insight on Seth's condition?
    Curry seems to think it's minor and Duke did send him to Charlotte for today's ACC Media Day. Can't see that they would do that it they thought he would be impaired for any significant period of time.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Curry seems to think it's minor and Duke did send him to Charlotte for today's ACC Media Day. Can't see that they would do that it they thought he would be impaired for any significant period of time.
    Thanks, Jim. Seth is a big part of where this team goes this year. He had good game before, and would love to see him have a Nolan senior growth this year. As great as Ryan and Mason are, leadership on the perimeter is essential.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Y... K also said that Tyler will be backing up all 3 perimeter positions (which may or may not be a statement about Rasheed's readiness). ... Yikes! ...
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    It sounds like a six man rotation on the horizon (Alex sliding to the 4 when Ryan or Mason sit), with 7-12 totaling less than #6. Yikes. Hopefully, it means Tyler has stepped up his game in a big way from last year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I don't see where this come from -- all it means is that Marshall is ahead of Jefferson and Hairston and our backup guards in the rotation. Why does that mean it's a six-man rotation?

    Let's see ... K also said that Seth was in the top three -- I assumed that means the three seniors, who has repeatedly said are the heart of the team.

    Four and five would seem to be Murphy and Cook (at least both are starting at the moment). That puts MP3 ahead of Suliamon and Thornton. I'm sure both will be in the rotation, and probably one of Jefferson and Hairston -- both until MP3 comes back.

    I think it's a sign of how far MP3 has come along ... well, he is 7-foot, 240 and wants to be a true center. I think we could find a use for that.
    My concern is Tyler at the 3. If Tyler, at 6' 1", is backing up the 3, in addition to the guard spots, that doesn't say much for Sheed or Amile or Josh at the 3. As long as Ryan, Mason and Alex aren't in foul trouble, I don't see Josh or Amile much at the 4 and please not at the 5. My assumption is Alex being the preferred backup at the 4, based upon his height, his inclusion in the top 5, and the reports of his play during the summer - and Josh's play last year. I hope Josh has elevated his play to be a worthy rotation player at the 4.

    I am very encouraged that MP3 was/is one of our top 6 players. 2 Plumlees and Ryan make a great 4/5 rotation. Upon his return, that's a solid 7 players. But if Tyler is still the best backup option at the 3, it tells me we won't see many more off the bench other than in mop up duty.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    All nine recruited players should play early. I can see one of Marshall, Hairston and Jefferson getting squeezed down the line. But maybe not. Duke only has 10 recruited players, only four of whom are guards.

    K said today that he told the three seniors back in the spring that it was their team. He has consistently stated that they are his three best players.

    K keeps saying that Mason is one of the nation's best players. Not can be, should be, might be. Is.

    Kelly says he's worked on his inside game and has made rebounding a priority. But he's still a stretch 4. Completely, 100% healthy.

    Lots of buzz about Murphy. It's one thing when fans compare Murphy to Singler but his teammates are doing the same thing. Murphy tells me he spent a lot of time working on his outside shot and is determined not to just be a slasher on offense.

    Cook was never fully healthy last season. He is fully healthy this year. The difference should be significant. He'll start.

    Look for Curry to play off the ball. K says Curry has improved his communication skills.

    Hairston is up to 240. It looks like a good 240, unlike last season, when he seemed a tad doughy. To me, anyway.

    Jefferson is long. Built like a beanpole. But long.

    Sulaimon can be a defensive stopper. Great personality. Both freshman are bright and articulate. But you knew that.

    The players rave about Rodney Hood. Just rave. K calls him a 6-8 guard.

    More later.
    This all sounds like good news. I really hope your spin on Seth's injury is the right one, because Coach K's pronouncements with Andy Katz sounded ominous.

    Regarding the rotation, it sounds like you're thinking we'll have a 9-man rotation, but historically that's not K's style. We usually have 5 starters and a primary big sub and a primary perimeter sub, maybe an 8th guy, depending on personnel. I share BD80's fear that it might degenerate to a 6-man rotation, though it's hard to imagine Rasheed and his defensive reputation languishing on the bench. I take heart in the fact that when Seth couldn't go at Ft. Bragg, it was Rasheed who donned the white jersey, not Tyler. That suggests they'll both get time, and at least a 7-man rotation. But if both Tyler and Rasheed get decent minutes and Marshall is really one of our top 6 guys, as K said today, then it would strongly suggest an 8-man rotation, which would still mean both Josh and Amile essentially get shut out come January 1, despite both sounding like they're good enough to contribute. I suppose in the end quality depth down to the 10th man is a nice problem to have.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Curry seems to think it's minor and Duke did send him to Charlotte for today's ACC Media Day. Can't see that they would do that it they thought he would be impaired for any significant period of time.
    Hope you're right. Laura Keeley's comments in this piece in the Charlotte Observer were worrisome.

    It remains to be seen, though, how much Curry will be able to play. An unspecified leg injury has limited him in practice, and Krzyzewski said it’s the type of injury that could be bothersome all season.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    This all sounds like good news. I really hope your spin on Seth's injury is the right one, because Coach K's pronouncements with Andy Katz sounded ominous.

    Regarding the rotation, it sounds like you're thinking we'll have a 9-man rotation, but historically that's not K's style. We usually have 5 starters and a primary big sub and a primary perimeter sub, maybe an 8th guy, depending on personnel. I share BD80's fear that it might degenerate to a 6-man rotation, though it's hard to imagine Rasheed and his defensive reputation languishing on the bench. I take heart in the fact that when Seth couldn't go at Ft. Bragg, it was Rasheed who donned the white jersey, not Tyler. That suggests they'll both get time, and at least a 7-man rotation. But if both Tyler and Rasheed get decent minutes and Marshall is really one of our top 6 guys, as K said today, then it would strongly suggest an 8-man rotation, which would still mean both Josh and Amile essentially get shut out come January 1, despite both sounding like they're good enough to contribute. I suppose in the end quality depth down to the 10th man is a nice problem to have.
    Nine players played at least 246 minutes last season, with Hairston at ninth. Nine played at least 303 in 2011, nine played at least 227 in 2010.

    It is very tough to find seasons where ten guys got burn. 1998 is the closest example.

    Curry told me last Friday and yesterday that he didn't think the leg injury would be significant. I assume he was being honest with me. Having no medical training and no recent stays in a Holiday Inn, I am unable to confirm or deny his opinion.

    In other words, wait and see.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    ... In other words, wait and see.
    Before offering an opinion? That, sir, is NOT how the internet works.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Curry told me last Friday and yesterday that he didn't think the leg injury would be significant. I assume he was being honest with me. Having no medical training and no recent stays in a Holiday Inn, I am unable to confirm or deny his opinion.

    In other words, wait and see.
    So, reading between the lines -- Seth is concerned that he will be hobbled for much of the year, and the chances for a national championship have gone down the drain?!?

    Dang. I was just starting to get optimistic. May be time for a "Seth's Mysterious and Perhaps Semi-Phantom Pull the Other Leg Injury Vigil." The best vigils are the ones with no definitive beginning or end point. "Pointless," some may say.



    (Thanks for the update as always, hope it is nothing that Seth cannot work through).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Nine players played at least 246 minutes last season, with Hairston at ninth. Nine played at least 303 in 2011, nine played at least 227 in 2010.
    Our difference seems to be in what constitutes "burn." Josh's 246 minutes in 34 games comes to 7.2 minutes a game. In the 18 games after January 1 and before Ryan got hurt, Josh only averaged 5.4 mpg, and much of that came in garbage time. In my opinion that doesn't count as being in the rotation.

    Similarly, Ryan Kelly's 227 minutes in 2010 come out to 5.7 mpg. After January 1, he averaged 3.8 mpg in 24 games, not once playing double-figure minutes. In 2011, Kyrie was the guy with 303. If Kyrie had been healthy, Tyler Thornton would have gotten a lot less than his 337 minutes, meaning again we wouldn't have had a 9th guy playing meaningful minutes.

    This season, once Marshall is healthy, I assume all 10 guys will play in the early games against lesser competition, though it remains to be seen how much the bottom of the rotation plays against, e.g., Kentucky, Ohio State, Louisville. It's possible over the course of the season the 9th guy will get 250 minutes, especially considering our injuries. When the calendar shifts to 2013, however, based on Coach K's history, absent injury I expect the bottom two on the depth chart to be pretty much relegated to end-of-game blowouts.




    .
    Last edited by Kedsy; 10-18-2012 at 11:36 AM. Reason: clarity

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Our difference seems to be in what constitutes "burn." Josh's 246 minutes in 34 games comes to 7.2 minutes a game. In the 18 games after January 1 and before Ryan got hurt, Josh only averaged 5.4 mpg, and much of that came in garbage time. In my opinion that doesn't count as being in the rotation.

    Similarly, Ryan Kelly's 227 minutes in 2010 come out to 5.7 mpg. After January 1, he averaged 3.8 mpg in 24 games, not once playing double-figure minutes. In 2011, Kyrie was the guy with 303. If Kyrie had been healthy, Tyler Thornton would have gotten a lot less than his 337 minutes, meaning again we wouldn't have had a 9th guy playing meaningful minutes.

    This season, once Marshall is healthy, I assume all 10 guys will play in the early games against lesser competition, though it remains to be seen how much the bottom of the rotation plays against, e.g., Kentucky, Ohio State, Louisville. It's possible over the course of the season the 9th guy will get 250 minutes, especially considering our injuries. When the calendar shifts to 2013, however, based on Coach K's history, absent injury I expect the bottom two on the depth chart to be pretty much relegated to end-of-game blowouts.




    .
    Seven minutes isn't a lot, especially for a prep A-A. But a good seven minutes can help win a game, a lousy seven minutes can help lose a game.

    The four guards are going to play. Murphy is going to play. Mason and Kelly are going to play. That leaves Jefferson, Hairston and Mason competing for what's left. The injury to Marshall gives Jefferson and Hairston an opportunity to make their case.

    Josh has the most experience of the three. But Marshall is one of only two pure fives on the roster, while Jefferson makes more sense (to me, anyway) as the backup 3. So, I'm not sure how this plays out.

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