Mac/PC Advice

[JBDuke]

It's time to do something about the computers in the JBDuke household. We have two desktops that need replacing. Both are Windows PCs - one a pretty serious but older gaming rig; the other, a cheap, low-performance Windows 7 unit. The former has had a couple of hardware failures and the latter is just overwhelmed when trying to do anything but the most simple tasks.

So, I'm trying to figure out where to go at this point. I need one computer that will sit in the kitchen and be used by the entire family. The kids will do homework on it and play some games from time to time, and the whole family will use it as a convenience device for surfing. I want a second computer that will will primarily be my personal machine, and I want it to be able to run some pretty serious Windows games. (I have Skyrim and Diablo 3 sitting in their boxes waiting to be played.)

I'm thinking about making the leap to an iMac for the family computer in the kitchen. We all have iPods, two of us have iPhones, and I have an iPad. Having an iMac would improve our integration with those devices, I think. I also like the friendly user interface and the improved security of the Apple product. The kids do need Microsoft Office software for easy integration with their schools' setups, but I hear good things about the Mac version of the Office suite. I'm a little concerned about the iMac running the Windows games that the kids will want to play, but I don't believe those games are quite as demanding in their performance requirements as the games I have, and so I'm thinking that I can run using one of the translation apps or other tools available to allow Macs to run PC software. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts or experiences on this, though.

For my own use, I'm thinking about sticking with a Windows PC, both to allow me to play the games I already own and to give us a good Windows platform in case the Mac won't suffice for some reason. I'm also thinking about going from my former desktop setup to a gaming laptop. I really like what I'm reading about the Samsung Series 7 Gamer laptop, but I have no experience with such a high performance laptop. Can anyone pass along experience/lessons learned on this topic?

Thanks for whatever advice or recommendations you care to share.

[moonpie23]

i would definitely recommend moving to the mac...the integration of all the other devices seamlessly is a huge plus...if you need any advice on configuring your new mac, PM me...


it's the future...

btw...you can run windows on the mac...

[Jim3k]

What grade are your kids and how much homework will they have? Will they be competing for computer time? Depending on their age, you might need to consider a third computer for the oldest child.

Your PC software will not transfer to the iMac, so you will have to pay for whatever new software you will need. At a minimum you are looking for an age-appropriate word processing program. Maybe OK Writer for Mac? [Shareware.] There are plenty of Apple based educational programs. Last I looked, they were still more kid-friendly than those for PCs.

Macs come with an internet browser, Safari, but Firefox and Google Chrome are easy to install (and you can migrate your bookmarks fairly easily. The Mac will also have its own mail client which I have found perfectly adequate, but YMMV. It uses a different address book system, but I suspect it can immigrate your old one (I've never done that.) The only game that came with my Mac (4 years ago) was Chess.

[Jim3k]

btw...you can run windows on the mac...

Yes, but it is an ordeal. I have an older VMWare Fusion installed, but it really eats memory and frequently freezes. Maybe you can give me some tips on that.

[DevilAlumna]

Coming in 11 more days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzu3...feature=relmfu

Oh, and the rest of Windows 8 goodness (including new hardware from a variety of manufacturers) is also publicly available starting 10/26 too.

http://youtu.be/i1GNDs7DCTw



Feel free to PM me about Office for Mac if you decide to go that route.

[bjornolf]

Coming in 11 more days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzu3...feature=relmfu

Oh, and the rest of Windows 8 goodness (including new hardware from a variety of manufacturers) is also publicly available starting 10/26 too.

http://youtu.be/i1GNDs7DCTw



Feel free to PM me about Office for Mac if you decide to go that route.

Ah, yes, but will it be useable by 2013 with all the patches you'll need to download?

[moonpie23]

i think there is an Office Mac for students at about 115$...


i've used mail, safari AND "contacts" with excellent results....there are many features built in that make transitions smooth and easy for kids (which seem to understand the mac OS very quickly) as well as PC adults....


i am obviously a mac fan, but i pimp them to PC friends all the time, have turned many from the dark side and ALL of them thank me and wish they had done it earlier...

[fuse]

Mac vs. PC...decades old debate. :-)

Outside of technology preferences, there is a cost angle, and I've yet to configure a Mac online that wasn't at least 2-3x the cost of a similar PC from Dell, HP, etc.

If cost is no object, or ease of use is the primary goal, go Mac.

Otherwise, I'd stay on the Windows side of things (ugh, can't believe I just typed that!).
I think Toshiba has an ultrabook for around $500 for starters.
I've taken one of two approaches with PC purchases- cheap bottom feeder that you expect to last or replace/upgrade in a year, or top shelf and not really worry about replacements for 3+ years (optimistic, I know).

You could also consider a "hybrid" strategy if you don't already have tablets in your house. Outside of work, I almost never use a PC and rely pretty heavily on my ipad for all my content consumption. Just make sure you have a good data plan with your ISP if you are adding multiple PCs and wireless devices.

There's not really a wrong answer as long as what you choose is right for you. Good luck!

[tw7]

Yay on the family Mac
I think an iMac is a good choice for your family machine. It's sleek, snappy, and will, I think, allow better integration with your other iDevices. To run Windows applications, you'll need to get software like the already-mentioned VMWare Fusion or Parallels. I have heard good things about Parallels. But I do not own the software. The only drawback about going the Mac route is, as fuse mentioned, the cost. Almost all comparable software and hardware on the Mac side will incur a premium.

Nay on the gaming laptop
In my experience, I would recommend against a gaming laptop. They entice you with big enough screens and powerful mobile graphics cards and the illusion of mobility (17-inch screen and 8 lbs isn't exactly something you can easily carry around.) These laptops also tend to run very hot, especially when you run your games, which means you will almost invariably be hearing the loud fan going all the time. On less well-constructed laptops, overheat may occur and cause your gaming experience to a halt, which may be disastrous if you are playing online. Finally, I am not a fan of the ergonomics of a laptop when it comes to gaming or sitting in front of it for a long time. Since the screen is attached to the keyboard on a laptop, you cannot pull the keyboard closer to you or push the screen farther away, really restricting your posture. The aforementioned heat will make your hands sweaty and hot especially in warmer days. This is not a problem an external keyboard wouldn't solve, but if you are using a laptop as a desktop tower, why go for a laptop? Finally, a gaming laptop is still a laptop. The graphics cards are not as powerful as its desktop counter parts, and the screens are not as large as a full monitor. You know Skyrim wants to be played in its full, beautifully rendered glory... and pronto! Let me know if you have more questions about gaming on a laptop

Timing Issues
With Windows 8 coming out in a few weeks, you may be wondering whether you should wait to upgrade. It may be prudent. However, there are enough people saying that they do not like the new user interface that you might want to jump in as a guinea pig Microsoft has offered those who my a Windows 7 now a chance to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for $15 later (link) should you want to upgrade hardware now before seeing Windows 8 in stores.

tw7

[Kdogg]

Yes, but it is an ordeal. I have an older VMWare Fusion installed, but it really eats memory and frequently freezes. Maybe you can give me some tips on that.

You can use boot camp and boot directly into Windows. You won't be able to run both OSX and Windows at the same time though. Windows should run file though. It might help in the transition. (Personal note: I'm a Windows guy but have not problem using a Mac or switching between to two.)

Oh as for productivity software, is Open Office still around and free? I think it had a name chance since Oracle bought Sun.

[cspan37421]

TW7 provides excellent advice re: gaming laptop. I would add that, although not a gamer myself, gamers seem to often experiment with and customize their computers with graphics cards, sound cards, additional RAM or better fans, - basically, they keep about as many original components as someone with a hopped-up 70s Chevy Nova. It's much more difficult to do that with a laptop - the choices are fewer and more expensive, and you will hit a limit more quickly. Plus if the monitor goes south, well, you either have to send in the whole machine or plug an an auxiliary, which chips away mightily at the portability factor.

Have you ever opened up a tower PC or desktop to add a 2nd hard drive, more RAM, etc? It's easy, but good documentation (of what fits and what type it should be) is essential.

Regarding the iMac, it's probably a fine choice ... you may want to see about a protective keyboard skin for spills. I would also recommend you consider whether the monitor/CPU unit could be susceptible to getting knocked over in such a busy area and with kids. You may want to secure the base somehow.

If money is no object you should go to Mac, they're simply built better and have a much higher level of customer service should something go wrong. You'll pay dearly for that, but many find that other, cheaper brands are a false economy.

That said, if I were a gamer, I would not get a gaming laptop even if money were no object. They're just not better - and I doubt portability is that important to most gamers.

[nocilla]

You can use boot camp and boot directly into Windows. You won't be able to run both OSX and Windows at the same time though. Windows should run file though. It might help in the transition. (Personal note: I'm a Windows guy but have not problem using a Mac or switching between to two.)

Oh as for productivity software, is Open Office still around and free? I think it had a name chance since Oracle bought Sun.

It is Apache Open Office now, althought the website is still openoffice.org. I am currently using it on my Mac. It isn't as easy as Microsoft Office but is fine for the little I use it.

My Mac success story;
I have been using a Mac mini for about 3 years now. IIRC, I bought it for $600 or $700. I used the keyboard and mouse from my previous PC. (although I later bought a new mouse) Then I bought a basic 22" monitor from Amazon for ~$150. I don't remember the exact total but was very happy that I had gotten a Mac system for under $900. Since we homeschool it gets used throughout the day and is still going 3 years later. My kids play online games and watch netflix on it. We use iphoto a lot, and of course email and safari for web browsing. I have watched more Duke basketball games on it than I have on my regular tv because I don't have espn. I have not bought any anti-virus or anti-spam or anything. It probably isn't up to par for the gaming that you want to do, but I haven't looked into them lately, so there may be a better option now. But for others that may want a Mac but are afraid of the cost, the Mac mini is a viable option.

[Chard]

For my own use, I'm thinking about sticking with a Windows PC, both to allow me to play the games I already own and to give us a good Windows platform in case the Mac won't suffice for some reason. I'm also thinking about going from my former desktop setup to a gaming laptop. I really like what I'm reading about the Samsung Series 7 Gamer laptop, but I have no experience with such a high performance laptop. Can anyone pass along experience/lessons learned on this topic?

Thanks for whatever advice or recommendations you care to share.

For your family computer I think a touch screen all-in-one computer for your children would be a good way to go. Check out the comment section on retailer websites to see what people who have bought a product say about the computer. I'm not a Mac fan but they are fine computers. Compatibility is my main issue.

For your gaming rig (and let's face it, that is what you want) I recommend something that is expandable. What I mean by that is purchase a rig that has adequate RAM, a good video card and a very good processor. However, the rig should have the capacity to add more RAM which is usually what high-end games use up. It should have the room to add a case fan and another slot for another video card is a good idea too. A good video card will get you through most current generation games for the time being. Game makers realize that they can't put out something that will require their buyers to go out and buy a new rig or $400 video card just to play it on low settings.

With the base of a very good processor it can handle the upgrades to RAM and video cards and still get the performance you need for years to come.

I went through this just a couple of years ago and I bought an ASUS Essentio CG1330. Look it up and you'll see that it had the capacity to expand. I bought it with the intent to keep it for 5-7 years and be able to add to it so that I wouldn't be that lagger that no gamer wants to be. The one I bought has 8 GB RAM and has the ATI 5750. I really like ATI cards.I'm a real wanker for saying this. Unfortunately I just had to replace the HD as the one it came with died. I replaced it with a WD Caviar Black.I'm a real wanker for saying this. It is a SATA III whereas the board can only use SATA II.I'm a real wanker for saying this. That's okay because SATA III is backwards compatible, it just doesn't use the full speed of the SATA III connection.I'm a real wanker for saying this. I'd recommend something in the SATA III realm but also consider solid state drives.I'm a real wanker for saying this. They seem to be the next step in hard drive evolution and the prices are coming down. Not sure what the w a n ker thing is about as I've typed nothing objectionable.

[cspan37421]

It is Apache Open Office now, althought the website is still openoffice.org. I am currently using it on my Mac. It isn't as easy as Microsoft Office but is fine for the little I use it.

I think I heard that many developers of OpenOffice.org bolted for a "more free" fork of it called LibreOffice (owing to concerns about and conflicts with Oracle's involvement with OpenOffice). I've been using for some time. It's essentially the same thing - only power users would notice the difference, my guess. It's not any harder than MS Office (was) to me, but I use Libreoffice nearly all the time, I don't keep up with both. I really like the "export to PDF" feature, makes sharing finished documents very easy.

You are right, Apache S.F. now has OpenOffice. I wonder if it has retained or regained its popularity since getting more independent of Oracle.

In any case, unless an employer was picking up the tab, no way would I pay for an office suite of apps, esp. not what MS Office used to command in the marketplace and apparently still does for Mac.

[theAlaskanBear]

Yes, but it is an ordeal. I have an older VMWare Fusion installed, but it really eats memory and frequently freezes. Maybe you can give me some tips on that.

Jim3k,

I game on a MacBook Pro: Skyrim, Civ V, an MMO called Vanguard...this is all on a 5 year old MacBook Pro. With the intel Macs, simulating a windows environment or running Fusion is a huge no-no. Partition your hard drive and run Windows via Bootcamp...it works splendidly. That said, if you like to game and want your own computer separate from your family, building a PC and swapping out components as your computer ages is definitely the most economical way.

The one thing you want to watch out for is overheating in Windows Bootcamp -- basically you would have to download a fan control program to set fan parameters to keep your CPU and GPU from throttling the graphics due to heat...I also use an external laptop cooling pad. But its very easy.

But that said, the new Macs should have very little problem with top-line gaming, considering how my aging laptop is still churning out the FPS (note, I play on balanced settings...ultra settings are just beyond the reach for my machine). Computers are rapidly approaching the point where extra power becomes superfluous. Considering the timeline of game development, there will always be a lag for games to catch up to the computing power.

Ultimately I love the versatility of dual-booting a mac. I can GIS and game on Windows, run Adobe suite and do photos and music on the Mac side. And I always know that if anything corrupts my windows partition or I get a virus, etc etc, I can reboot in Mac and not miss a beat until I find the time to wipe and repartition or repair the Windows side...I have never had a Mac hard drive or OS or component failure in my life vs 3 major incidents when I ran Windows machines exclusively for 5 years in the early-mid aughts.

[darthur]

You can use boot camp and boot directly into Windows. You won't be able to run both OSX and Windows at the same time though. Windows should run file though. It might help in the transition. (Personal note: I'm a Windows guy but have not problem using a Mac or switching between to two.)

Oh as for productivity software, is Open Office still around and free? I think it had a name chance since Oracle bought Sun.

I bought a mac laptop thinking I could just use bootcamp and run on Windows if I didn't like Mac OS. It was a huge mistake. Yes, I was able to find some software for Mac OS that I couldn't find on Windows, and that was nice, but it turns out bootcamp gave me a really expensive really poor performance windows laptop. Maybe it's a driver issue that I could fix if I was good with such things, but I think a normal windows laptop at half the price would have way better performance than what I have now. (I bought the laptop a little over 3 years ago, it was high-end, and it could barely play games that came out then, let alone games that come out now. My windows desktop still plays today's games just fine, even though it's 4 years old.)

For a family computer, I'd say go for it on the iMac, but for your gaming computer, I'd run in the other direction as fast and far as you can.

At a minimum you are looking for an age-appropriate word processing program.

I am biased since I work there, but I find Google docs to be pretty good. Free, instant access to your docs anywhere, and all the features that I've ever cared about in a word processor.

[theAlaskanBear]

I bought a mac laptop thinking I could just use bootcamp and run on Windows if I didn't like Mac OS. It was a huge mistake. Yes, I was able to find some software for Mac OS that I couldn't find on Windows, and that was nice, but it turns out bootcamp gave me a really expensive really poor performance windows laptop. Maybe it's a driver issue that I could fix if I was good with such things, but I think a normal windows laptop at half the price would have way better performance than what I have now. (I bought the laptop a little over 3 years ago, it was high-end, and it could barely play games that came out then, let alone games that come out now. My windows desktop still plays today's games just fine, even though it's 4 years old.)

For a family computer, I'd say go for it on the iMac, but for your gaming computer, I'd run in the other direction as fast and far as you can.



I am biased since I work there, but I find Google docs to be pretty good. Free, instant access to your docs anywhere, and all the features that I've ever cared about in a word processor.

May I ask what model mac laptop you bought? Just curious because I have an older computer and windows/gaming has never given me a problem in bootcamp...was it the macbook line or the macbook pro? What processor? Drivers are really important, as is getting Windows to recognize the total amount of RAM in the laptop...when I first used Bootcamp the max was 3 gigs in a 4 gig computer. That was fixed fairly quickly though.

I can't argue that Mac gaming isn't more expensive, because it is. You will be paying twice as much for a Mac Pro to build a comparable computer.

[JBDuke]

Just to update folks, I've made a couple of decision.

First, we've purchase an iMac for the family. We got the smaller version (21.5") for space/ergonomics reasons, but I upgraded to the faster processor and more RAM to give it a little more horsepower. I think that will be sufficient to meet our needs.

As for my gaming rig, I've got a really good case and some fundamental elements, so I think I'm just going to try some parts upgrades. I need more RAM, and if I'm lucky I'll be able to raid the RAM from the old family computer to supplement the stuff in the old gaming machine. I'll need to upgrade my video card, too, and I need to replace the failed hard drive. (Here again, I'm hoping to raid the old family computer.) That will be a good stop-gap. If I can't get the old machine up and running pretty easily with the repurposed hard drive, I'll look at alternatives.

Thanks for the advice. I may be back when I hit the inevitable struggles with the old rig. I'm convinced the iMac will be ready to go out of the box, save for needing Office-compatible software...

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Just to update folks, I've made a couple of decision.

First, we've purchase an iMac for the family. We got the smaller version (21.5") for space/ergonomics reasons, but I upgraded to the faster processor and more RAM to give it a little more horsepower. I think that will be sufficient to meet our needs.

As for my gaming rig, I've got a really good case and some fundamental elements, so I think I'm just going to try some parts upgrades. I need more RAM, and if I'm lucky I'll be able to raid the RAM from the old family computer to supplement the stuff in the old gaming machine. I'll need to upgrade my video card, too, and I need to replace the failed hard drive. (Here again, I'm hoping to raid the old family computer.) That will be a good stop-gap. If I can't get the old machine up and running pretty easily with the repurposed hard drive, I'll look at alternatives.

Thanks for the advice. I may be back when I hit the inevitable struggles with the old rig. I'm convinced the iMac will be ready to go out of the box, save for needing Office-compatible software...

New Mac models to be announced this week most likely. Probably not worth the hassle to return the current and buy a new one though. I am waiting to see what the new Mac Mini is like. 500GB standard is just not enough space.

[moonpie23]

Just to update folks, I've made a couple of decision.

First, we've purchase an iMac for the family. We got the smaller version (21.5") for space/ergonomics reasons, but I upgraded to the faster processor and more RAM to give it a little more horsepower. I think that will be sufficient to meet our needs.

you made a good decision

Thanks for the advice. I may be back when I hit the inevitable struggles with the old rig. I'm convinced the iMac will be ready to go out of the box, save for needing Office-compatible software...

you are correct....please let us know how it goes...