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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!

    An amazing comeback

    Some time in the next couple months, the St. Louis Cardinals will call up a minor-league outfielder who is a little bit older than most top minor league prospects but still looks like he has a major league future.

    Of course, he already has a very notable major league past.

    Here is the story.

    I bet he gets a huge standing O the first time he comes to the plate... I'll be rooting for him.

    -Jason "He's sorta the reverse of Tim Wakefield... sorta" Evans

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    ← Bay / Valley ↓
    How many bats will he throw into the back-stop before he goes back to the minors?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by hc5duke View Post
    How many bats will he throw into the back-stop before he goes back to the minors?
    Oooooh, that's cruel.

    I wish him well, but it'll be very difficult to come all the way back. Guys like Tony C, Dickie Thon and Mackey Sasser tried it and lasted a few years, but you also have the Steve Blass and Nick Esasky types who never were heard from again.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Orleans
    Quote Originally Posted by hurleyfor3 View Post
    you also have the Steve Blass and Nick Esasky types who never were heard from again.
    Steve Blass was a good friend of Tom Butters and used to stop by Duke on his way to Florida and throw with the pitchers in Cameron. His motion was tight and compact, his breaking ball completely on a horizontal plane. His personality I would describe as mature major league vet, with a little bit of wacky looseness that presumably would keep him relaxed. In short, the very last guy I would ever expect to lose his control and not find it again.

    I'm really rooting for Ankiel, quite apart from being a Cardinals fan. He was considered easily the best pitching prospect in the minors circa 1998. It would be a shame not to parlay the amazing two-way talent he has into a financial nest egg, as I'm sure he's spent his signing bonus money by now. Tough family situation -- his father went to jail for fraud around the time Rick was drafted.

  5. #5
    BTW, by "never heard from again" I meant only in a playing sense. Steve Blass has been a Pirates radio and TV announcer for many years, and a very good one at that. He was great in the 1971 World Series (two complete games, one run allowed in each) before developing "Steve Blass disease".

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by hurleyfor3 View Post
    Oooooh, that's cruel.

    I wish him well, but it'll be very difficult to come all the way back. Guys like Tony C, Dickie Thon and Mackey Sasser tried it and lasted a few years, but you also have the Steve Blass and Nick Esasky types who never were heard from again.
    I'm pretty sure Dickie Thon was beaned in the face while an Astro and never really could see very well again. Was it more a head case thing that he was afraid to get in the batters box?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    I'm pretty sure Dickie Thon was beaned in the face while an Astro and never really could see very well again. Was it more a head case thing that he was afraid to get in the batters box?
    It was similar to Conigliaro's injury, he wasn't a head case.

    My point was most people who "disappear" like that manage to come back only for a couple years at best, and never at full strength. There are a few exceptions: Tim Wakefield, maybe Jim Eisenreich... but for every Tommy John there are a dozen Herb Scores and Mark Fidryches.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Stuff like this always makes me wonder why we can't have a two-way player in the major leagues. There has to be someone gifted enough as a hitter and a pitcher that could make it. Everyday left fielder and flame-throwing reliever? Is that so far-fetched? Clearly, Ankiel has the ability to do both although his mental makeup prevents him from taking the mound.

    As long as I am on the topic of things I want to see from baseball. How about an ambidextrous pitcher? Think of the matchup problems he could pose. Not to mention the arm angles and different looks he would give...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY

    As it turns out ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukerati View Post
    As long as I am on the topic of things I want to see from baseball. How about an ambidextrous pitcher? Think of the matchup problems he could pose. Not to mention the arm angles and different looks he would give...
    Funny you should say that. I remembered reading about this pitcher from Creighton. Check out the photos in the article:
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...reighton_N.htm

    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  10. #10

    Two-way player

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukerati View Post
    Stuff like this always makes me wonder why we can't have a two-way player in the major leagues. There has to be someone gifted enough as a hitter and a pitcher that could make it. Everyday left fielder and flame-throwing reliever? Is that so far-fetched?
    Well, there was a player like that ... his name was Babe Ruth.

    Of course, he really only did double duty in two seasons. In 1915-17, he was strictly a pitcher -- at 18-8, 23-12, 24-13 he was by far the best left-hander in the American League.

    In 1918, at age 23, he truely became a two-way player. He started 20 games on the mound (finishing 13-7 with 18 complete games), 59 games in the outfield and 13 games at first base. A year later, he pitched in 17 games (going 9-5 with 12 complete games) and started 111 games in the outfield and 5 games at first base.

    But Ruth didn't like going two ways ... one of the reasons that the Red Sox dealt him was his complaints about being forced to move between the mound and the outfield. When he got to the Yankees, he became strictly an outfielder -- he pitched in just five games the rest of his career and never more than two a season.

    Another guy who did double duty was a great Negro League player named Martin Dihago. He was an all-star at second base in the 1930s and 1940s and at the same time an all-star pitcher. He also played the outfield and combined impressive power at the plate with speed on the basepaths. There are some who followed that era, who suggest he is the greatest all-around player in the game's history -- not quite the pitcher than Satchel Paige or Leon Day ... but almost; not quite the slugger as Josh Gibson or Mule Suttle ... but almost; not quite the baserunner as Cool Papa Bell ... but almost; not quite the defensive second baseman as Mahlon Duckett ... but almost.

    BTW, if Ankiel makes it back as an outfielder, the guy he would evoke to me is Smoky Joe Wood. In the days just before Ruth joined the Red Sox, Wood was a star pitcher. In fact, his 1912 season is sometimes suggested as the greatest single season for any pitcher in baseball history (34-5 with a 1.91 ERA and 3 wins in the World Series).

    But Wood hurt his arm the next year and had to nurse it through 11-5, 10-3, 15-5 seasons the next three years. Then he hurt is worse and couldn't pitch again. He missed the entire 1916 season, trying to rehab it. He rejoined his old teammate Tris Speaker in Cleveland and tried one last time in 1917 to come back -- his comeback was a disaster and his career seemed over at age 27.

    Only it wasn't. In 1918, Wood started 95 games for the Indians in the outfield (and 19 at second base!). He played the outfield regularly (although it seems he was platooned there) for four more seasons (he hit .366 in parttime duty in 1921 and .297 in over 500 ABs in 1922). When Cleveland played in the 1920 World Series, Wood started in rightfield. He later became the baseball coach at Yale, where he coached a young first baseball named George Bush.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Orleans
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    where he coached a young first baseball named George Bush.
    So that's where W got his intellectual capabilities. He's a chip off the old ball. Sorry, couldn't resist.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Would a breaking ball on a completely horizontal plane be a highly desired thing?

  13. #13
    How about an ambidextrous pitcher?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_A._Harris

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by dkbaseball View Post
    Steve Blass was a good friend of Tom Butters and used to stop by Duke on his way to Florida and throw with the pitchers in Cameron. His motion was tight and compact, his breaking ball completely on a horizontal plane. His personality I would describe as mature major league vet, with a little bit of wacky looseness that presumably would keep him relaxed. In short, the very last guy I would ever expect to lose his control and not find it again.
    Sounds like Steve Blass caught Steve Blass Disease again, this time as a commentator. When another former Pirate, Doc Ellis (yes, the one who threw a no-hitter while high on LSD, the ultimate "performance de-enhancer"), spoke out against the management of the team, Steve Blass, the typical ownership lapdog he is, questioned his "loyalty" (you know, like some other person we know). To me, that just put Blass in the Lanny Frattare level of suckitude and butt-kissing. He is nothing but another Nutting bobblehead, not unlike the ones the Nuttings like to hand out to bobblehead fans.

    http://iratefans.phpbbnow.com/viewtopic.php?t=374
    http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/foru...ates&tid=43621

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Orleans
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    Would a breaking ball on a completely horizontal plane be a highly desired thing?
    Not for getting hitters out (and frankly, watching Blass throw from right behind him I was a bit underwhelmed, and surprised at the success he had over the next two years, including the 1971 World Series). But a horizontal breaking ball is much easier to control than one that drops. The hardest pitch to control is a 12-6 curveball. So from that standpoint, in addition to the others mentioned, Blass didn't strike me as someone at all likely to lose his control. Seemed like a smart guy, also, and maybe that led to his problems. As a general rule of thumb, the smarter you are the more likely you are in sports to become a head case.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    It's nice to know we have such a knowledgeable baseball readership! Now I want to see a good player in the modern era with those skills.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Orleans
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukerati View Post
    It's nice to know we have such a knowledgeable baseball readership! Now I want to see a good player in the modern era with those skills.
    It does seem like there are a few more two-way players in college lately. I don't know if you'll ever see one pitch and play another position in the majors, but you might see the occasional Micah Owings, a rookie pitcher for the Diamondbacks. He batted cleanup for a number-one ranked Tulane team two years ago, and still swings well. The D-backs pinch hit him from time to time. I believe a kid from Ga. Tech who was both their catcher and closer was drafted in the top ten this year.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukerati View Post
    It's nice to know we have such a knowledgeable baseball readership!
    Yes, and we have Braves fans too.

  19. #19
    Ankiel homers in major league return.

    Someone needs to bid on the movie rights

  20. #20
    How great was that? This and the Josh Hamilton story are each movies waiting to happen. Tony LaRussa's reaction was priceless.

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