Tony Farmer (Top 100 recruit) collapses in court during sentencing for assault

[Highlander]

http://fox8.com/2012/08/22/i-team-su...ack-by-farmer/

This shows a bit of the video of the assault, as well as his reaction in the courtroom when his sentence is read. There is no question he is guilty of the assault; the real question is whether the sentence was fair. He could have received close to a decade if the sentences were consecutive; since they are concurrent he will serve 3 years in jail. No clue what his earliest chance for parole would be. He apparently rejected a plea deal which would have reduced his sentence to possibly 2 years to ask the judge to put him on probation. The judge was not moved. Part of me thinks 3 years in jail for assault is a bit harsh, but I am probably more swayed by the victim's testimony and his future than the judge was.

The sentencing will be reviewed after 180 days and can be reduced at the judge's discretion.

[Indoor66]

http://fox8.com/2012/08/22/i-team-su...ack-by-farmer/

This shows a bit of the video of the assault, as well as his reaction in the courtroom when his sentence is read. There is no question he is guilty of the assault; the real question is whether the sentence was fair. He could have received close to a decade if the sentences were consecutive; since they are concurrent he will serve 3 years in jail. No clue what his earliest chance for parole would be. He apparently rejected a plea deal which would have reduced his sentence to possibly 2 years to ask the judge to put him on probation. The judge was not moved. Part of me thinks 3 years in jail for assault is a bit harsh, but I am probably more swayed by the victim's testimony and his future than the judge was.

The sentencing will be reviewed after 180 days and can be reduced at the judge's discretion.

Self inflicted injury.

[mkline09]

Don't feel sorry for this guy one bit. You deserve the time if you do the crime and obviously he committed a brutal crime against a helpless victim. There is no excuse for that kind of violence in this world and if you can't handle your temper then that is on you. So he can faint all he wants and fane shock for sympathy but he'll get none from me.

[oldnavy]

I have a bit of empathy for the kid or any kid that does stupid things that ruin their life or the lives of others. It is sad to me on many levels.

However, I do believe that people have to be held accountable for their actions. He certainly bullied and beat this young girl and according to the judge made matters worse by trying to intimidate her after his arrest. Dumb, dumb, dumb... He needs to be punished for his actions. The whole basketball star defense is stupid. If I were the judge and the defense came at me with that, I would get angry. It appears that this female judge is not much of a BB fan!

2 years or 3 years? I wonder what kind of person he will become in prison?

It is a sad story. Hopefully it will help someone else along the road, but I think that the odds are stacked against Farmer now... I hope and pray that he can turn his life around and use this for good in the future... time will tell.

[Turtleboy]

The strong shall not injure the weak. All he had to do to stay out of prison was not attack a defenseless woman. And then not bully her. He got off easy in my opinion.

[oldnavy]

The strong shall not injure the weak. All he had to do to stay out of prison was not attack a defenseless woman. And then not bully her. He got off easy in my opinion.

I don't disagree, I just think that it is sad. Sad for society that this kind of thing happens A LOT, sad for the young girl who was beaten and will carry that scar for life, and also sad for Farmer who made the decision to do what he did.

I certainly think he has to be held accountable and punished. I am full on borad with that, but I cannot help but to be saddened that it happened in the first place.

I just hope that some good will come out of this. Say, that Farmer repents and sees what he has done, and comes out of prison with a purpose to use his experiences to help others BEFORE they do something similar. That is what I pray for in situations such as these. He cannot undo what has been done, but this could be a positive in the long run if he chooses to do the right thing... have to have some hope in these situations...

[sporthenry]

I have a bit of empathy for the kid or any kid that does stupid things that ruin their life or the lives of others. It is sad to me on many levels.

However, I do believe that people have to be held accountable for their actions. He certainly bullied and beat this young girl and according to the judge made matters worse by trying to intimidate her after his arrest. Dumb, dumb, dumb... He needs to be punished for his actions. The whole basketball star defense is stupid. If I were the judge and the defense came at me with that, I would get angry. It appears that this female judge is not much of a BB fan!

2 years or 3 years? I wonder what kind of person he will become in prison?

It is a sad story. Hopefully it will help someone else along the road, but I think that the odds are stacked against Farmer now... I hope and pray that he can turn his life around and use this for good in the future... time will tell.

I've had a hard time with this case. Originally, I felt terrible for him b/c he was a young kid in love who made a mistake that might cost him his whole future. But the intimidating of the witness did show he did not get it.

I think its too easy to just say he did the crime so he must do the time. He is still just a kid. Yes he screwed up, but by all accounts of his teachers, he seemed like a good kid. One night of poor judgment, and albeit very poor and despicable judgment, may cost this kid everything. And yes, the victim is a priority here and perhaps I'm bordering on being too political but in a case like this, if he was to serve out the full 3 years, I don't see how he would truly be able to turn it around. Perhaps the judge is setting it up to release him in 180 days assuming he stays out of trouble in jail and this is mostly just a wake up call but with recidivism rates in America, the kid is more likely to end up back in jail. Hopefully he is out in 180 days, earns his GED winds up on a JUCO team and earns a college degree. We have enough miscreants already, hopefully our judicial system won't fail someone with the opportunity to get a degree from his athletic abilities and become a productive member of society.

[johnb]

The strong shall not injure the weak. All he had to do to stay out of prison was not attack a defenseless woman. And then not bully her. He got off easy in my opinion.

The videotape is ugly and shows clear intimidation and threats and physical violence. I didn't see efforts to injure her in a serious way, and presumably he could have injured her if that was his intent. Dragging her outside is ugly, but I don't see how that is "kidnapping." All in all, they should throw the book at him, but I am uninformed about the book. If someone threatens and kicks at his former girlfriend, what's the punishment? Does it matter that it's caught on video? That she asks for him not to get jail time? That he has otherwise been seen as a solid guy? . Should it matter that he might get a college scholly if he isn't in jail too long? Well, we might scoff at the basketball star defense, but I think courts do take into consideration the person's prior and expected future behavior when it comes to sentencing. Yeah, the guy is guilty, and the video is ugly, but--sadly enough--it's both far from rare in our society and, further, his brand of violent intimdation is not worthy of an indefinite prison sentence: that would be the sort of perspective that would drive our society even further on the extreme in regards to imprisonment of our citizens (as it stands, we already lead the world in the persentage of the population in prison).











+``-

[Turtleboy]

The videotape is ugly and shows clear intimidation and threats and physical violence.

Agreed.

I didn't see efforts to injure her in a serious way, and presumably he could have injured her if that was his intent.

I think that's called "Damning with faint praise." It's not much of a defense to assert that he could have hurt her worse than he did.

Dragging her outside is ugly, but I don't see how that is "kidnapping."

The crime of unlawfully seizing and carrying away a person by force or Fraud, or seizing and detaining a person against his or her will with an intent to carry that person away at a later time.

The law of kidnapping is difficult to define with precision because it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Most state and federal kidnapping statutes define the term kidnapping vaguely, and courts fill in the details.

Generally, kidnapping occurs when a person, without lawful authority, physically asports (i.e., moves) another person without that other person's consent, with the intent to use the abduction in connection with some other nefarious objective.

He moved her without her consent for the purpose of injuring her and intimidating her. Sounds like a fair cop.

Cite.

All in all, they should throw the book at him, but I am uninformed about the book. If someone threatens and kicks at his former girlfriend, what's the punishment?

Looks to be about three years in that jurisdiction.

Does it matter that it's caught on video?

Not to me.

That she asks for him not to get jail time?

I'm not sure she is the best judge of that. See Battered Woman Syndrome.

Should it matter that he might get a college scholly if he isn't in jail too long?

Not to me. All he had to do to stay out of jail was not viciously attack a woman half his size, and then threaten further violence. It's child's play, really. I do it all day long, ever day, without hardly even having to think about it.

Well, we might scoff at the basketball star defense, but I think courts do take into consideration the person's prior and expected future behavior when it comes to sentencing. Yeah, the guy is guilty, and the video is ugly, but--sadly enough--it's both far from rare in our society and, further, his brand of violent intimdation is not worthy of an indefinite prison sentence: that would be the sort of perspective that would drive our society even further on the extreme in regards to imprisonment of our citizens (as it stands, we already lead the world in the persentage of the population in prison).

And as it turns out he didn't get an indefinite sentence. He got an appropriate one, in my opinion.











+``-[/QUOTE]

[moonpie23]

just watched the video.... .sentence seems fair....it's too bad about the timing of his poor judgement in relationship to his basketball "career"...

the look on his face told me he thought he was going to walk...

[niveklaen]

3 years in prison? - so he's going to UNC?

...though many parole boards require inmates to take classes before making them elligible for parole, kinda the reverse of the true Carolina way...

[allenmurray]

Does it matter . . . That she asks for him not to get jail time?

Assaulting someone is not just a crime against the victim, it is a crme against society. That she asks for hm to not go to jail does not prevent a violent man from assaulting another woman - that is why the state decides whether to prosecute, not the victim.

[MCFinARL]

A lot of interesting posts on this thread, and I find myself agreeing with parts of many of them--even ones that seem contradictory. On the one hand--a violent attack on a smaller, weaker person, and worse, the later attempt to threaten her into silence, which as sporthenry notes, shows he doesn't get it. And an argument that his basketball talent should ameliorate the consequences of his actions, which it clearly shouldn't.

On the other hand, a stupid, possibly atypical act by a testosterone-addled teenager who hasn't yet learned adequate impulse control that may end up ruining his life, as oldnavy notes, and a prison sentence that, realistically, offers more chances for him to learn brutishness and criminal behavior than to learn how to manage his anger more effectively.

On an individual level, it's hard to make a strong case for a different outcome here. On a systemic level, though, there is a lot to be very concerned about. While I am not willing to call Farmer a "victim" here, he has likely been heavily influenced by a culture that rewards athletic talent and repeatedly makes exceptions or excuses for those who have it, leading them to believe that they don't need to follow the rules that apply to others. It's not that surprising that someone who has constantly received these messages might not develop either the sense of personal responsibility or the empathy for others that produce consistently constructive and socially desirable behavior. It doesn't excuse Farmer's choices and actions, but as long as we permit and even encourage this kind of culture, we will keep producing kids who think they are entitled to do whatever they want because of their talent, more athletes who abuse women, drive drunk, help themselves to things that aren't theirs, etc.

And as long as prison, in its current form, is our only real approach to dealing with illegal behavior, we will have another big systemic problem--a class of people who have been marked for life, who in many cases have been hardened, even brutalized, by prison life rather than rehabilitated, and whose opportunities to make a living legally after release are so severely restricted that only those who are both the strongest of character and the luckiest have much chance to put together a decent, law-abiding life. If his family and friends stick by him, maybe Tony Farmer will have a chance to be such a person--but getting some training or therapy to learn self-control--work a lot of teenagers need to do, even if they don't run afoul of the law--could make a big difference.

[wavedukefan70s]

He deserves everything he gets sentenced.my daughter had a boyfriend who made the mistake of trying to intimidate her with violence.then made the second mistake of threatening my family.of course he is sorry when punishment time comes.sorry he got caught.it is a sad situation .i really liked the kid.now even after he has done his punishment.which was two months and a lot of probation I have to look at him as a target the rest of his and my life.

[sagegrouse]

A lot of interesting posts on this thread, and I find myself agreeing with parts of many of them--even ones that seem contradictory. On the one hand--a violent attack on a smaller, weaker person, and worse, the later attempt to threaten her into silence, which as sporthenry notes, shows he doesn't get it. And an argument that his basketball talent should ameliorate the consequences of his actions, which it clearly shouldn't.

On the other hand, a stupid, possibly atypical act by a testosterone-addled teenager who hasn't yet learned adequate impulse control that may end up ruining his life, as oldnavy notes, and a prison sentence that, realistically, offers more chances for him to learn brutishness and criminal behavior than to learn how to manage his anger more effectively.

On an individual level, it's hard to make a strong case for a different outcome here. On a systemic level, though, there is a lot to be very concerned about. While I am not willing to call Farmer a "victim" here, he has likely been heavily influenced by a culture that rewards athletic talent and repeatedly makes exceptions or excuses for those who have it, leading them to believe that they don't need to follow the rules that apply to others. It's not that surprising that someone who has constantly received these messages might not develop either the sense of personal responsibility or the empathy for others that produce consistently constructive and socially desirable behavior. It doesn't excuse Farmer's choices and actions, but as long as we permit and even encourage this kind of culture, we will keep producing kids who think they are entitled to do whatever they want because of their talent, more athletes who abuse women, drive drunk, help themselves to things that aren't theirs, etc.

He deserves everything he gets sentenced.my daughter had a boyfriend who made the mistake of trying to intimidate her with violence.then made the second mistake of threatening my family.of course he is sorry when punishment time comes.sorry he got caught.it is a sad situation .i really liked the kid.now even after he has done his punishment.which was two months and a lot of probation I have to look at him as a target the rest of his and my life.

OTOH I listened to a radio program on Anders Breivik, who received 21 years for slaughtering dozens. There is no life sentence in Norway and the main objective of the prison system is rehabilitation -- for all criminals. Ain't gonna ever happen here, of course.

But, if rehabilitation is still a major objective, a three-year sentence is just awful and more than likely to be counterproductive. I would say 3-6 months with a couple of years of probation.

Now, I don't know anything about Farmer. Maybe he's a total knucklehead, or maybe he is basically a good kid who made a horrible series of mistakes. If the latter, the likelihood that he could do well at basketball should influence the sentence, because basketball could be a major part of the rehab program. Three years in prison -- fuhgeddaboutit!

I expect this will not be a popular post in this thread.

sagegrouse
'He got the book thrown at him, I expect, because he threatened a witness. The criminal justice system views that as an attack on itself, and that means "no mercy"'

[moonpie23]

i'll go out on a limb here and predict that the judge gives him a pass after 180 days...when you're handed that 3 years, that's a big pill to swallow...every lawyer on the planet is going to caution this guy to prepare for the 3 years...

accepting the punishment, watching your p's and q's while you're in....you might actually BE rehabilitated when your go through 180 days...

[allenmurray]

OTOH I listened to a radio program on Anders Breivik, who received 21 years for slaughtering dozens. There is no life sentence in Norway and the main objective of the prison system is rehabilitation -- for all criminals. Ain't gonna ever happen here, of course.

But, if rehabilitation is still a major objective, a three-year sentence is just awful and more than likely to be counterproductive. I would say 3-6 months with a couple of years of probation.

Now, I don't know anything about Farmer. Maybe he's a total knucklehead, or maybe he is basically a good kid who made a horrible series of mistakes. If the latter, the likelihood that he could do well at basketball should influence the sentence, because basketball could be a major part of the rehab program. Three years in prison -- fuhgeddaboutit!

I expect this will not be a popular post in this thread.

sagegrouse
'He got the book thrown at him, I expect, because he threatened a witness. The criminal justice system views that as an attack on itself, and that means "no mercy"'

No disagreement here. Historically there have been four primary purposes for incarceration - societal protection, punishment, deterance, and rehabilitation. Our prison system emphasizes punishment over the other three. If societal protection were a primary concern we wouldn't have prisons full of non-violent drug offenders. Prison is not adeterrant for crimes that are comitted "in the moment". We do a lousy job of rehabiltation. Punsihment is our focus.

On the other hand, I do believe there are folks who have such a poorly developed conscience, and enough sociopathy, that they are beyond rehabilitation - and I'd put Breivik in that category.

[sagegrouse]

No disagreement here. Historically there have been four primary purposes for incarceration - societal protection, punishment, deterance, and rehabilitation. Our prison system emphasizes punishment over the other three. If societal protection were a primary concern we wouldn't have prisons full of non-violent drug offenders. Prison is not adeterrant for crimes that are comitted "in the moment". We do a lousy job of rehabiltation. Punsihment is our focus.

On the other hand, I do believe there are folks who have such a poorly developed conscience, and enough sociopathy, that they are beyond rehabilitation - and I'd put Breivik in that category.

The discussion on NPR about Breivik suggested he was unlikely to see the light of day. Even though he had a specific term, there are apparently conditions that can be imposed downstream.

sagegrouse

[1999ballboy]

I don't enjoy seeing anyone collapse out of pure anguish and I think it's a damn shame that he did something so senseless when he had so much promise. I think, and hope, that he regrets his actions and hopefully he'll come out as a better man. But it seems like justice prevailed here. Three years doesn't sound too harsh at all considering his crimes.

[COYS]

No disagreement here. Historically there have been four primary purposes for incarceration - societal protection, punishment, deterance, and rehabilitation. Our prison system emphasizes punishment over the other three. If societal protection were a primary concern we wouldn't have prisons full of non-violent drug offenders. Prison is not adeterrant for crimes that are comitted "in the moment". We do a lousy job of rehabiltation. Punsihment is our focus.

On the other hand, I do believe there are folks who have such a poorly developed conscience, and enough sociopathy, that they are beyond rehabilitation - and I'd put Breivik in that category.

Good analysis, as usual. I agree with both you and Sage. This is a self-inflicted wound and I don't feel the least bit sad that it will cost him his college basketball scholarship. I DO feel bad for his ex-girlfriend, who had to endure those moments of terror, humiliation, and utter helplessness. I don't disagree with the punishment, either, in the sense that it is "fair" and in line with precedent. That being said, society loses if he emerges from prison with no prospects for college or a quality job, which, sadly, is likely.