Purvis eligibility under review

[mgtr]

Then how did Julius Peppers get into unc?

This is really a killer question! And the answer, in my experience, is that athletes don't have meet all the school standards (as all others do) but the standards of the NCAA. Of course, this applies only to top athletes. I have heard coaches discuss students SAT or ACT scores using the NCAA's minimum, not the university's minimum. So, there is definitely a double standard.

[JasonEvans]

I have heard coaches discuss students SAT or ACT scores using the NCAA's minimum, not the university's minimum. So, there is definitely a double standard.

I may be wrong but I doubt any school has a SAT or ACT minimum. it is one thing to require certain minimum level high school classes to ensure that a student has the proper foundation for the work that will be required of them in college. But I think Standardized Tests fall into a very different realm of education.

--Jason "JMO, I could be wrong" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Resources?

Maybe $30.6 million isn't all that much considering the scale that they operate on. To be honest, I don't even know. But let's not pretend like the NCAA is some struggling, cash-strapped non-profit. Most of the cash-strapped non-profits I know of don't pay their administrators $1.6 million per year. I'm sure a chunk of that salary could help hire an employee or two (or forty) to speed up that whole eligibility review process.

And if Tudor had made that argument and backed it up with some additional reporting, I would have no problem with it. I do not know how the NCAA allocates resources when it comes to this area of their operations. I don't know if 2 or 3 or 20 additional staffers in this department would make sense from an organizational standpoint nor do I even know if those extra staffers would mean that Purvis would know his answer by now. Again, if Tudor made some phone calls on this and came up with something to say about it, I would read that column and probably find it quite interesting.

My only point was that to merely express outrage that the NCAA has not finished this process yet and to suggest that Purvis, because he is an elite basketball player, deserves some special treatment was outrageous and the sign of a really weak column.

I would be interested to know how many student-athletes are still waiting to get Clearinghouse approval right now. Is Purvis the only one? Are there dozens, hundreds? How many staffers does the NCAA have working on the Clearinghouse right now? I would love to know when they asked Upper Room for more information/materials and when Upper Room gave them those materials.

All of that information would be really useful and would help us all to understand where the process is failing right now. Sadly, all we get from Tudor is, "they should speed things up because he is a stud and his team is playing meaningless exhibition games overseas right now..." with no depth or insight beyond that. Thanks!

-Jason "I did feel a little ill defending the NCAA earlier... blech!" Evans

[sagegrouse]

My only point was that [for Tudor] to merely express outrage that the NCAA has not finished this process yet and to suggest that Purvis, because he is an elite basketball player, deserves some special treatment was outrageous and the sign of a really weak column.

I agree with Jason's points and I generally think that Tudor is rather uninteresting as a columnist compared to Lennox R. and others in the area. When he hits home, however, it is often on a visceral issue like this one when he blurts outt he truth. And, while lazily researched, it is a valid opinion on Purvis' eligibility.

I thought Caulton Tudor's best column was two years ago when UNC was struggling on the basketball court in its meltdown season. Comparing the Heels and Devils, Tudor said, "one difference is that Duke plays hard on every play." And then he left it at that. Very nicely handled for a divided but, on balance, pro-Tar Heel readership. I have given him a three-year pass on criticism.

sagegrouse

[allenmurray]

I agree with Jason's points and I generally think that Tudor is rather uninteresting as a columnist compared to Lennox R. and others in the area. When he hits home, however, it is often on a visceral issue like this one when he blurts outt he truth. And, while lazily researched, it is a valid opinion on Purvis' eligibility.

I thought Caulton Tudor's best column was two years ago when UNC was struggling on the basketball court in its meltdown season. Comparing the Heels and Devils, Tudor said, "one difference is that Duke plays hard on every play." And then he left it at that. Very nicely handled for a divided but, on balance, pro-Tar Heel readership. I have given him a three-year pass on criticism.

sagegrouse

He is very good sometimes. But those times are few and far between (and when he is not very good, he simply phones it in).

[Starter]

I can't kill Tudor, simply because way back in 2001, my friend's battery died in Raleigh after a Duke-State game. Tudor stopped out of nowhere and gave us a jump. I can't honestly recall if I've ever read one of his articles after I graduated that year, but he's eternally my dude.

[Slackerb]

I agree with you. First, Tudor is an idiot, but those of us who read the N&O have known that for a while.

The problem isn't with the NCAA or with Purvis, it is with NCSU. They recruited a student who comes to them from a school that is questionable (any school where almost half the males in the high school are on the basketball team is going to raise eyebrows). He is from their first graduating class. I read somewhere (I'll look for the link later) that one of the questions is if his school even offered all of the classes required for admission to a UNC system school. We're not talking about if he passed them, but if they are even available (to get into any school in the UNC system you must pass 2 units of a foreign langauge, Biology, Chemistry, 4 units of English, and 4 units of Math - and at least one of the Math courses has to have Algebra 1 as a prerequisite - meaning at a minimum you have to have passed Geometry or Algebra II in high school). It seems as though the folks at NCSU didn't do their due diligence.

It would be great for Purvis to know soon - if he is ineligible to play he might want to do a year of prep school somewhere, and that opportunity is slipping away from him. But the fault lies with the compliance people at NCSU - they didn't do their homework.

How can you possibly pretend to know what the NCAA Clearinghouse is investigating at Upper Room and who might be to blame?

[flyingdutchdevil]

I may be wrong but I doubt any school has a SAT or ACT minimum. it is one thing to require certain minimum level high school classes to ensure that a student has the proper foundation for the work that will be required of them in college. But I think Standardized Tests fall into a very different realm of education.

--Jason "JMO, I could be wrong" Evans

I know Duke doesn't, but they do that the 50%, 75%, and 90% percentile for test scores. That is merely a benchmark. If the #1 QB wants to come to Duke and has just the minimum NCAA requirements but lacks the ideal grades and test scores to get into Duke and clearly is in the bottom 1%, you think that's gonna stop Coach Cut from taking him?

The same can be said for a donor who gives $100 million to Duke. I don't care how dumb his kids are, they are obviously getting in the school.

[allenmurray]

How can you possibly pretend to know what the NCAA Clearinghouse is investigating at Upper Room and who might be to blame?

How do I know what the NCAA is investigating? Multiple media outlets (ESPN, WRAL, News Observer) have reported that the focus of the review is on whether Upper Room offers the courses necessary to meet minimum standards of the NCAA (and for acceptance in a UNC system school), and if the courses they do offer are the equivilent of those offerred in a "standard" high school curriculum .

How do I know who might be to blame? Well, honestly that is just speculation. But given the nature of Upper Room (less than 60 total students enrolled, almost half of whom are on a basketball team) the folks at NCSU should have given more careful scrutiny to his eligibility - that seems obvious given the investigation.

Since there are less than 60 students enrolled total in their high school, he liklihood that they offer all of the courses that the UNC system requires is a legitimate question. Knowing what the minimum requirements are for admission to a UNC system school is pretty easy to find on the UNC sstem web site.

I hope he is eligible. Next to Duke NCSU is the school I root for most strongly. But it really seems someone droped the ball on reviewing his eligibility, and Purvis is the one to suffer for it. Anyone who is familiar with basketball in the Triangle area knows there have been concerns about there being so many schools here with very small numbers of students, which seem to exist soley for the purpose of having a basketball team. Sooner or later the NCAA was going to take a closer look.

[tommy]

Duke was recruiting Purvis very hard for some time. In fact, at one point I thought we were in pretty good shape to get him. Does anyone recall when we moved off of him, relative to his transfer to Upper Room?

[UrinalCake]

Duke was recruiting Purvis very hard for some time. In fact, at one point I thought we were in pretty good shape to get him. Does anyone recall when we moved off of him, relative to his transfer to Upper Room?

I think we stopped recruiting him around the fall of 2011 when we were holding a scholarship for Shabazz. We already had Rasheed coming in plus Curry and (we thought) Dawkins for one more year, it wasn't certain whether Austin would leave, and Jones coming in the following year. Our backcourt was just too crowded. I don't think it had anything to do with his transfer, but that's just my own uneducated guess.

[Bluedog]

^Duke stopped recruiting Purvis in July 2011. I recall it coinciding with Rasheed lighting it up on the summer circuit. With the initial recruitment, Purvis was a top 5-10 talent and Rasheed was top 30 or so. When the staff saw more of Rasheed and what he was capable of, they thought a scholarship could be better used on a different player than Purvis. They almost switched positions in the rankings, with Rasheed being more highly touted as a fringe top 10er and Rodney falling off a bit. Obviously, the staff can't discuss their rationale of prospects, but the rise of Rasheed in the rankings definitely coincided with Duke no longer showing interest in Rodney. I hope the NCAA clears him; I actually am looking forward to NC State being solid this year.

[Li_Duke]

^Duke stopped recruiting Purvis in July 2011. I recall it coinciding with Rasheed lighting it up on the summer circuit. With the initial recruitment, Purvis was a top 5-10 talent and Rasheed was top 30 or so. When the staff saw more of Rasheed and what he was capable of, they thought a scholarship could be better used on a different player than Purvis. They almost switched positions in the rankings, with Rasheed being more highly touted as a fringe top 10er and Rodney falling off a bit. Obviously, the staff can't discuss their rationale of prospects, but the rise of Rasheed in the rankings definitely coincided with Duke no longer showing interest in Rodney. I hope the NCAA clears him; I actually am looking forward to NC State being solid this year.

I thought it coincided with him moving up a year (he was originally in the same class as Parker and Randle). At that point, it went from bringing Purvis onto a team that recently graduated Curry and Dawkins to him competing with them for minutes if he came. Then he chose Louisville (because we wouldn't have immediate playing time) and we went after Rasheed. By the time he de-committed from them, Rasheed had committed and had leapfrogged him in the rankings.

[JasonEvans]

Something may be going on at Upper Room. ESPN's high school hoops analyst Jason Jordan says on twitter that there is a "mass exodus" of basketball players from the Upper Room team. 1 player has transferred and Jordan says there will be more.

It might just be a panic over what is going on with Purvis and concern that these players could see their offers dry up and their chances to play college ball limited by staying at Upper Room... or it could be something else. Hard to say but this cannot be good news for Purvis' hopes of playing with NC State soon.

-Jason "what a mess... " Evans

[Newton_14]

Something may be going on at Upper Room. ESPN's high school hoops analyst Jason Jordan says on twitter that there is a "mass exodus" of basketball players from the Upper Room team. 1 player has transferred and Jordan says there will be more.

It might just be a panic over what is going on with Purvis and concern that these players could see their offers dry up and their chances to play college ball limited by staying at Upper Room... or it could be something else. Hard to say but this cannot be good news for Purvis' hopes of playing with NC State soon.

-Jason "what a mess... " Evans

Agree. The good news for Purvis is he has been cleared to attend class on full scholarship. That is a huge step in the right direction, and honestly, I am confused on why he would not then be immediately eligible to join the team. If his transcript was sufficient to get him into school, what else would be required in addition to that, in order to participate in sports?

I assume there is something else required? If anyone can enlighten me there, I would appreciate it. Thanks

[JasonEvans]

Agree. The good news for Purvis is he has been cleared to attend class on full scholarship. That is a huge step in the right direction, and honestly, I am confused on why he would not then be immediately eligible to join the team. If his transcript was sufficient to get him into school, what else would be required in addition to that, in order to participate in sports?

I assume there is something else required? If anyone can enlighten me there, I would appreciate it. Thanks

I am just guessing, but here are my guesses...

1) The decision to admit a student is up to the school, not the NCAA. Just because NC State clears him to attend classes and feels his high school transcript is good enough for admission, it does not say anything about the NCAA's role in this.

2) The decision about granting a scholarship, again, rests primarily with the university. With one big caveat, I think. That caveat is whether the player in question is a "pro," and has received improper benefits therefore making them ineligible for sports and a sports-related scholarship. So, the fact that he is on scholarship may merely mean that the NCAA has determined that it does not believe he got any improper benefits.

3) The decision about whether he is allowed to play has not been made because the NCAA is still looking into whether he meets academic eligibility guidelines.

Again, I am just guessing at this stuff and I may be dead wrong about some of it.

-Jason "the more I think about it, the more I think that I could be really wrong about #2 involving the NCAA at all... I bet Enis Kanter was on scholarship for Kentucky last year even though he got paid and was ineligible as a result" Evans

[Newton_14]

I am just guessing, but here are my guesses...

1) The decision to admit a student is up to the school, not the NCAA. Just because NC State clears him to attend classes and feels his high school transcript is good enough for admission, it does not say anything about the NCAA's role in this.

2) The decision about granting a scholarship, again, rests primarily with the university. With one big caveat, I think. That caveat is whether the player in question is a "pro," and has received improper benefits therefore making them ineligible for sports and a sports-related scholarship. So, the fact that he is on scholarship may merely mean that the NCAA has determined that it does not believe he got any improper benefits.

3) The decision about whether he is allowed to play has not been made because the NCAA is still looking into whether he meets academic eligibility guidelines.

Again, I am just guessing at this stuff and I may be dead wrong about some of it.

-Jason "the more I think about it, the more I think that I could be really wrong about #2 involving the NCAA at all... I bet Enis Kanter was on scholarship for Kentucky last year even though he got paid and was ineligible as a result" Evans

Yeah, I don't know either Jason, but after more searching, I found an article stating that it was the NCAA that cleared Purvis to enroll and start taking classes. Link Here

Per the article:

The NCAA has cleared Rodney Purvis to go to class at N.C. State but his eligibility for the upcoming basketball season is still in question.
Purvis confirmed the NCAA's decision on his Twitter account on Tuesday. He will be on scholarship for the academic year, according to coach Mark Gottfried, but there's still a chance he won't be eligible to play during the 2012-13 season.

If Purvis had attended classes, prior to being cleared by the NCAA, he would have been considered a "nonqualifier" in NCAA vernacular. The ACC does not allow its members to accept nonqualifiers without an NCAA waiver. As a nonqualifier, Purvis would not be eligible for a scholarship or eligible to compete or practice as a freshman.

.

So the NCAA cleared him to enroll and go to class. I don't get it. They say they are checking to see if Upper Room had all the required "approved classes". Still if they cleared him to be a student, I don't understand why he isn't cleared to play. Seems to me if his High School education was deemed sufficient to meet the requirements needed to enroll in college, it should be sufficient to make him eligible to play. Otherwise, it seems he should not be eligible to enroll.

Clear as mud I guess

[SupaDave]

This is starting to sound a lot like the Eric Bledsoe saga so there may be some precedent for Purvis to see the court.

[sagegrouse]

So the NCAA cleared him to enroll and go to class. I don't get it. They say they are checking to see if Upper Room had all the required "approved classes". Still if they cleared him to be a student, I don't understand why he isn't cleared to play. Seems to me if his High School education was deemed sufficient to meet the requirements needed to enroll in college, it should be sufficient to make him eligible to play. Otherwise, it seems he should not be eligible to enroll.

Clear as mud I guess

i don't think the National Collegiate ATHLETIC Association is in any position to tell North Carolina State University whom it can or cannot admit or enrol in classes. Its only role -- a big one -- is to declare athletes eligible or ineligible for intercollegiate play.

sagegrouse

[COYS]

i don't think the National Collegiate ATHLETIC Association is in any position to tell North Carolina State University whom it can or cannot admit or enrol in classes. Its only role -- a big one -- is to declare athletes eligible or ineligible for intercollegiate play.

sagegrouse

True, but apparently they are allowing him to attend classes AND receive benefits from his athletic scholarship. Perhaps the NCAA does play a role in determining whether or not a player is eligible to receive an athletic scholarship? Honestly, though, it would seem like the school should determine how it wants to use its scholarships, regardless of eligibility. Didn't Enes Kanter still receive scholarship money during his year at UK?