Dark Knight - Spoilers

[Udaman]

JE - maybe you can merge this with the "Comments" thread, only add "Spoilers" to it?

Saw the movie today. Here is my take with comments/questions (and lots of spoilers):

1) It's not as good as The Dark Knight (with The Joker). Not even close. Bain is a shadow of what The Joker was...just a shadow.

2) It's too long...but about 20 minutes or more.

3) There were parts (at least when I saw it) where you literally could not tell what Bain was saying through his mask.

4) There were plot holes (and leaps of logic) so large that you could drive a bat airplane through them. People stranded in Gotham for 4 months? No way, no way, no way, no way. It starts and ends there...but there were lots more (the loss of money for Wayne, the cops trapped in the sewers, getting Batman to the prison in another country, the entire side story of the other rich guys trying to take over Wayne Enterprises, Albert leaving Bruce for doing what he had always done, etc, etc, etc)

5) The concept of "here's a bad guy who wants to turn the people of Gotham into who they really are - criminals" has now been the theme of all three of the Dark Knight movies. It gets a little old.

6) The opening scene with Bain was almost laughably impossible.

7) The fight scenes with Bain just didn't work. I wish they had made it like the comic books. Bruce can't beat him. He's too slow, too old, and weaker. So he uses his mind - let Bain's ego guide him to his doom. Fight him in mud...make the odds more equal.

OK - these items are all harsh. I'll continue

8) I actually liked it overall, though I'm not sure I'll watch it again.

9) Catwoman was great. She was truly great. So was Christian Bale - I think he did his best job in this movie.

10) The cameos were outstanding!

11) I can't believe I didn't see that the young detective was Robin. Can't believe. Also did not see the twist of Ghul's daughter - that was actually pretty cool.

Now for the question - I don't understand the end at all. How did Batman live? He flew an airplane with a 4 megaton bomb that exploded. I think the near end suggested that somehow he had fixed the automated pilot...but even so - he was clearly flying it when it left the city. Let's say he ditches out of the plane...the blast would still have killed him (and by the way, the radiation would have smoked Gothem, and the blast radius of 6 miles...they explosion was protably half that distance).

Overall - I was disappointed. There were times when I was bored in the movie. Times when I was shaking my head in disbelief. I didn't really feel any connection to Bain (unlike The Joker), and the best characters were CatWoman and Batman, and there were long stretches where neither were in the movie. All the police guys other than the Commish and Robin were 100% unnecessary.

This movie has no chance of catching Avengers. None at all.

[sporthenry]

Saw the movie today. Here is my take with comments/questions (and lots of spoilers)...

This is probably the best review I've seen of the movie. It almost seemed like he had the major plot lines figured out but didn't leave himself enough time to work in the minor details. I agree with the 4 months just passing, random prison presumably in the Middle East, and the Police Officer story line are pretty ridiculous. Would have liked to see some deviation from the criminal proving that Gotham's people are bad or at least something change with Batman's dealings with said criminal. I was also looking for Robin to have a greater impact as opposed to just setting it up for him to take over the series. I feel like Nolan tried to fit 2-3 movies into 1 since he only had Bale for 1 more movie. I still enjoyed the movie but like many movies of this generation, it seems like more could have been done with it and it is a shame Bale wouldn't do a few more although he got a decent ride off into the sun.

[NashvilleDevil]

Saw and enjoyed it. I think it's the weakest of the 3. There were a couple of characters that could've been cut. Although it was about 20 minutes to long I never looked at the time which I did with The Dark Knight since it had 5 climaxes.

Michael Caine was outstanding with his limited time on screen. I think they could have had Alfred wink and nod and not show it was Bruce.

I agree with Udaman, no way this catches Avengers. I think this gets to $480-500 million by the time it's done.

[A-Tex Devil]

I loved Bain and wish he had a better exit. Not as strong as Ledger's Joker but I still thought he was an excellent and intimidating villain. The biggest problem with Batman Begins was the villains were weak. I thought Bain was truly terrifying in this one.

As far as plot holes, if you can believe in a world where that motorcycle exists, I think some of the other ones were reasonable. The biggest hole is that Wayne and Batman come back at the same time and only Blake puts it together... and he figured it out before then.

[dukebsbll14]

Am I the only one that's kind of disappointed Batman lives? I mean, when Batman's talking to Catwoman and she says he's given the people of Gotham enough and he responds, "Not everything, not yet," that just screamed Gladiator-like ending (kills the bad guy, but dies from wounds afterwards) to me. I dunno. I've never read the comics, but I guess you can't have Batman die. And he does leave (almost) everyone to believe he does sacrifice himself.

Side note, I'm pretty sure Bain was more audible in the trailers than in the actual movie...fail. And Joseph Gordon-Levitt is going to be HUGE. I only know him from Inception and this, but I've been really impressed with his roles in the two.

[Udaman]

dukebsbll14 - I was disappointed as well.

Yeah, when I thought he had died, part of me said "wait, you can't kill Batman," but then I remembered that this was a trilogy, and that there will definitely be more Batman movies down the line.

But then when they didn't kill him, I thought it was a major copout. (not as bad as the terrible ending to Savages, but in the same ballpark)

Also, I agree that Robin figuring out about Wayne was a stretch...and I also thought that the Commish already knew he was Wayne (if not, then that guy has zero deductive reasoning skills).

Two more really silly things in the movie: 1) Bruce and his limp that is somehow fixed by a brace. 2) You can't take a Billionaire and make him broke overnight. It's not possible. Not at all. He wouldn't be a billionaire with that little diversity of assets.

Still, I liked it overall.

[Dev11]

Side note, I'm pretty sure Bain was more audible in the trailers than in the actual movie...fail. And Joseph Gordon-Levitt is going to be HUGE. I only know him from Inception and this, but I've been really impressed with his roles in the two.

You never saw Angels in the Outfield?

[Dukefan1.0]

Am I the only one that's kind of disappointed Batman lives? I mean, when Batman's talking to Catwoman and she says he's given the people of Gotham enough and he responds, "Not everything, not yet," that just screamed Gladiator-like ending (kills the bad guy, but dies from wounds afterwards) to me. I dunno. I've never read the comics, but I guess you can't have Batman die. And he does leave (almost) everyone to believe he does sacrifice himself.

Side note, I'm pretty sure Bain was more audible in the trailers than in the actual movie...fail. And Joseph Gordon-Levitt is going to be HUGE. I only know him from Inception and this, but I've been really impressed with his roles in the two.

Batman has died before in the comics, the ones I can think of are a Silver Age issue where Bruce Wayne stopped his heart on purpose and Dick Grayson revived him. He and a bunch of other members of the Justice League we're killed in a trip to the past we're also killed in a issue that I'll have to dig through and look up. The only other time I can think of Batman being killed is the Emperor Joker arc in the Superman comics. I will look up the issues if anyone is wondering about specifics.

I do agree with you about having difficulty understanding Bane throughout the movie. I wonder if they're going to use Robin in possible future movies will they expand to the rest of the Titans if they do a Justice League movie.

[JohnGalt]

You never saw Angels in the Outfield?

I pray you're not hinting that he was anything but sensational in that movie as well...

"when the Angels win the Pennant"

classic...

[Native]

I just think Nolan and company bit off more than they could chew in this last one. Don't get me wrong - it's a fantastic movie, but not quite normally up to par with Nolan's usual work.

Gripes:

• Too many new characters. Daggett, Tate, Bane, Catwoman, Blake - it gets to be too much and it's impossible to give that much backstory even in a nearly three hour film. We never feel any real attachment to most of the characters in this movie. Take Daggett, for instance. Why even have him in the film? To get Bane to Gotham? Why not just say that Bane was a member of the League and was coming back anyway?
  
• With the casting of these new characters, we knew something was up. Casting someone as big as Joseph Gordon-Levitt in a role that's been pitched as no more than a Gotham beat cop assigned to Gordon's special duty? You could see that he was going to be [new Batman/Robin/Nightwing] from a mile away. Same goes for a name like Marion Cottliard in a role like Miranda Tate's. Really? I would have liked to see these characters earlier. I know Nolan wrote TDK without thinking of a third movie, but introducing these characters even briefly in the second film would have done wonders for this one and the reveals would have been that much bigger in the third movie. It would have also given more of a connection to TDK than this movie currently has.
  
• This movie didn't feel like the third movie in a trilogy. This may have been intentional, with the passing of Heath Ledger or maybe just Nolan's unique vision. Most trilogies that I can think of use the first installment as exposition, and then the second two parts act as almost two halves of one larger movie. This felt like a completely stand-alone installment in the series, which is why I think the introduction of new characters fails.
  
• There's a part where Alfred just starts talking to Bruce about Bane. How does he know all of this stuff about Bane? Never explained, just written off as "rumors". It seems that everyone knows who Bane is at the beginning except for the audience. Even the CIA guy on the plane knows who Bane is. The audience gets no introduction or the exposition to the character that every other character in the film has - he's just there. Bane's character would have been way more mysterious if no one knew anything about him and he just appeared - that's one of the side reasons why Ledger's Joker was so phenomenal. No one in the film had anything on him.
  

Likes:

• The technical savvy of this film is spectacular. Most of what you see in the movie is real, and CGI was minimally used. In the final fight sequence on the steps of city hall, there were no digitally-added combatants or vehicles or anything. Everything you see in that scene is one hundred percent real. The Bat was also real for the most part - although it didn't fly, it did have working weaponry and cockpit. Pretty sweet. And the Tumbler is always awesome.
  
• I actually enjoyed Bane's character and voice. While it was hard to understand at times, there were points - especially during the first fight scene between Batman and Bane - that it was downright creepy.
  
• Really liked Hathaway's portrayal of Catwoman, especially early in the film. She really breathes life and humor into the melancholy first hour of the movie with little action.
  
• The finale was spectacular. One of the best endings to a film I can remember. Beginning with the war on the City Hall and ending with the detonation of the bomb, wow. Spectacular thrills.
  

[Wander]

[*]With the casting of these new characters, we knew something was up. Casting someone as big as Joseph Gordon-Levitt in a role that's been pitched as no more than a Gotham beat cop assigned to Gordon's special duty? You could see that he was going to be [new Batman/Robin/Nightwing] from a mile away.

What makes you think this was supposed to be an unexpected twist? It was constantly foreshadowed throughout the entire movie. I might even argue Levitt's character spends more time as Batman in the film than Bruce Wayne does.

I thought the ending was perfect for the series.

[Native]

What makes you think this was supposed to be an unexpected twist?

I meant before the movie even came out. It became painstakingly obvious once Blake said "Anyone could be Batman" while they're riding in the car.

And my point was really that I'd have liked to see characters like Tate and Blake introduced, even briefly, in TDK. I think that would have tied the movies together more seamlessly.

[darthur]

Two more really silly things in the movie: 1) Bruce and his limp that is somehow fixed by a brace. 2) You can't take a Billionaire and make him broke overnight. It's not possible. Not at all. He wouldn't be a billionaire with that little diversity of assets.

The only thing that mattered was he lost majority shareholder on the board, which seems like not a big leap of faith compared to many other things in every movie of the series. If you're hacking into the stock exchange, how hard is it to make a guy sell his stock? As for the power outage and what-not, I read it as Bruce just didn't really bother to stop it. After all, he kept his house.

- The limp and back healing did seem unrealistic to me, but meh.
- Catwoman was really good.
- I liked and didn't expect the Talia twist, even though I happen to know from the mythology that Ras-al-Ghul has a daughter and not a son. Shows I was pretty into the movie that I never even thought about it while watching.

I didn't like it as much as #2, but I did like it a lot more than other people on this thread. For all their strengths, I think both #1 and #2 are weakest at the end (Ras's return and Two-Face). This one finishes strong, which is important for a trilogy ending.

[Matches]

I enjoyed it a ton. I need to re-watch it to really stack it up against TDK (which IMO gets better with subsequent viewings). My initial impression is that TDKR wasn't as tightly plotted as TDK was - I noticed some of the same flaws pointed out upthread.

I did find the character work to be, in general, outstanding though. Batman, Catwoman, Gordon, and Blake all have very well-defined character arcs that are resolved in satisfactory ways. The last scene in the cafe didn't feel like a cheat to me - it seemed to me that it could either be taken literally or figuratively, and if you're bothered by the idea of Bruce surviving, just choose the latter.

Plot-wise, despite the holes I thought they did a good job of tying together all three movies, closing out the plots left dangling in the first two.

Hathaway was just insanely smoking hot as Catwoman, though they never actually called her that in the movie. Bane was hard to understand at times (I'm told he's easier to understand in regular-def than in IMAX), but I loved Hardy's performance otherwise. He seemed to not so much walk as strut around, and managed to be imposing and annoying at the same time.

I dug it - it was a fitting ending to the trilogy. Definitely one I'll want to re-watch.

[alteran]

Now for the question - I don't understand the end at all. How did Batman live? He flew an airplane with a 4 megaton bomb that exploded. I think the near end suggested that somehow he had fixed the automated pilot...but even so - he was clearly flying it when it left the city. Let's say he ditches out of the plane...the blast would still have killed him (and by the way, the radiation would have smoked Gothem, and the blast radius of 6 miles...they explosion was protably half that distance).

Loved your review, dead on.

The end worked for me. I knew we were going to have a "it looks like Batman is dead but he isn't" ending when Alfred gave that incredibly detailed description of how he goes to Chateau d'Good Will Hunting at a ridiculously detailed time and date, dreaming of seeing a happy, engaged-with-life Bruce Wayne.

Answering your question-- between the fixed autopilot, the inverse square law, and the fact that water blocks a fair amount of radiation (and there could have been miles of it), I'm willing to buy Wayne surviving.

[JasonEvans]

How It Should Have Ended knocks it out of the park with their Dark Knight Rises edition just released a day or two ago..



-Jason "disappointed they didn't do anything with the absurd Bruce Wayne in the jail/pit stuff" Evans

[BD80]

Finally watched it, what a waste of time. JGL is really good, I hope the series continues, but with some stronger scripting.

I really hate the trend of the plotline that the hero has to be stripped to nothing so he can arise again stronger. Sure, it is a mainstay, echoing through history (and religions), but in every movie within the same series? It is as cliche as the "red wire / blue wire" decision as the bomb ticks to 001.

Anne Hathaway was marvelous and marvelous to look at. Even though the script was predictable, she made it work. Nolan's direction, and strong performances, almost overcame the script.

The story was just not interesting enough, and the effects/action too contrived. Seriously, well trained mercenaries with the armory of Wayne Industries can't hold off a few thousand unarmed policemen funneled through a city street? So that it degenerates into hand-to-hand combat?

For a story that dragged so slowly, they sure did tie everything up with a bow in the last couple of minutes.