59th ACC Tourney (FSU is ACC Champion)

[gofurman]

Someone please post when they know the official acc tourney seeding.. lots of teams with the same record / I think if you have more than one team with same record (so you can't compare head-to-head) they go with the groups total record against each other? IE, three teams at 9-7 then you compare each team vs the other two and see what record each of those three teams has vs the other two (of course with unbalanced you might get a 2-1 vs a 1-1 or 2-2 , kinda' not fair but thus an unbalanced schedule)

also, dont the first 4 teams get a bye on Thursday now? so one of the 9-7 teams gets a bye and the other two will paly thursday...

[tb3]

http://www.theacc.com/championships/...ournament.html

Looks like we start with the Clemson/VT winner Friday at 7:00

[uh_no]

Someone please post when they know the official acc tourney seeding.. lots of teams with the same record / I think if you have more than one team with same record (so you can't compare head-to-head) they go with the groups total record against each other? IE, three teams at 9-7 then you compare each team vs the other two and see what record each of those three teams has vs the other two (of course with unbalanced you might get a 2-1 vs a 1-1 or 2-2 , kinda' not fair but thus an unbalanced schedule)

also, dont the first 4 teams get a bye on Thursday now? so one of the 9-7 teams gets a bye and the other two will paly thursday...

per my back of the envelope calculations, it is as follows

UNC
Duke
FSU

uva (won all games vs ncsu and miami)
ncsu (beat miami)
miami

clemson
maryland

wf 4-1 (against vt gt and bc)
VT 2-1 (against gt and bc)
gt (split with, but better record overall than bc)
bc

which means unc plays winner of umd and wf
duke play the winner of VT and clemson
fsu plays the winner ofgt and miami
uva plays the winner of ncsu and bc

[UrinalCake]

Here it is in bracket format, for those like me who need to look at it visually:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_AC...nament#Bracket

UNC looks to have a pretty easy path to the finals. Maryland played them tough up in College Park, as did Virginia just this past week, and NC State has some weapons, but I fully expect them to make it to sunday. I think they can get around their perceived lack of depth by the fact that they just have so much talent and they stay out of foul trouble.

On our side, I'm glad NC State isn't in our half but no matter what we're going to need to play two solid games to make it to the final. Miami-FSU could make for a good game, and unfortunately I don't really want to play either of them.

[gofurman]

think i figured my own answer.

1.unc
2.duke
3.FSU
4.UVA

all sit out the first day

followg play the first day:
5.NC State vs 9
6. miami vs 10
7. clemson vs 11
8. MD vs 12
9 - 12 some order of Vtech, Wake, GTech and BC.. I havent taken the time to figure this one yet.

-side note. actually impressed with BC getting as many wins as Wake and GTech and VTech - BC has no where near the talent of VTech or Wake.. playin' almost ALL freshman this year. BC will be ok next year and pretty good the 2 after that.

-if things hold up, duke would get a 'tired' clemson team on Friday. Clemson is not that talented but well coached and playing MUCH better than when we beat them. they won 6 of their last 8 including beating UVA and NC State - impressive. Brownell is getting everything out of them possible and they arepretty good now.

[Olympic Fan]

Now that NC State has beaten Virginia Tech it's set.

Thursday:

Noon: No. 8 Maryland (16-14) vs. No. 9 Wake Forest (15-16)
2 p.m.: No. 5 NC State (20-11) vs. No. 12 Boston College (9-21)
7 p.m.: No. 7 Clemson (16-14) vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech (15-16)
9 p.m.: No. 6 Miami (18-11) vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech (11-19)

Friday:

Noon: No. 1 North Carolina (27-4) vs. Maryland/Wake winner
2 p.m.: No. 4 Virginia (22-8) vs. NC State/Boston College winner
7 p.m. No. 2 Duke (26-5) vs. Clemson/Virginia Tech winner
9 p.m.: No. 3 Florida State (20-9) vs,. Miami/Georgia Tech winner

Saturday

1 p.m.: First semifinal (probably UNC vs. somebody)
3 p.m.: second semifinal (Duke-FSU?)

Sunday 1 p.m.: Championship Game

Comments: NC State and Miami are the two bubble teams. Don't think a win Thursday helps them much (although a loss would kill them). But a victory Friday -- State over Virginia; Miami over FSU -- would probably be enough to get them in. As for Duke, I'd rather have Clemson in our bracket than NC State, but I worry that Virginia Tech might be more dangerous than the Tigers.

As for UNC, yeah, they have an easy path -- but they earned it. No complaints.

With Michigan State losing today at home to Ohio State, I think it more likely that the ACC Tournament winner gets the fourth No. 1 seed -- especially if Duke beats UNC in the title game.

[UrinalCake]

With Michigan State losing today at home to Ohio State, I think it more likely that the ACC Tournament winner gets the fourth No. 1 seed -- especially if Duke beats UNC in the title game.

I like your post but disagree with the bolded part. If UNC wins the ACCT, they are definitely getting a #1 seed. I can say that almost unequivocably, regardless of what happens in the rest of the country. But if Duke wins, I think there's still a chance they won't get it. Especially if they beat a team other than UNC in the final game.

[Duvall]

I like your post but disagree with the bolded part. If UNC wins the ACCT, they are definitely getting a #1 seed. I can say that almost unequivocably, regardless of what happens in the rest of the country. But if Duke wins, I think there's still a chance they won't get it. Especially if they beat a team other than UNC in the final game.

Anything's possible. But the committee would have to find a fourth 1-seed somewhere, and in that scenario it's hard to imagine another team with a better body of work than Duke.

[uh_no]

Anything's possible. But the committee would have to find a fourth 1-seed somewhere, and in that scenario it's hard to imagine another team with a better body of work than Duke.

Unless Duke gets another shot and beats UNC, an 18 point loss in the last game of the season will weigh very heavily on the commitees minds...much more so than MSU's 2 point loss to OSU anyway.

I think the conference tournaments will determine the the last 2 1 seeds.

If it were to end today, I think the ordering would be

Kansas
UNC
MSU
Duke

for duke to get a one seed at this point, I think they need to beat UNC for the title, and need one of MSU or Kansas to not win their tournament.

FOr MSU to get onto the top line, I think they need kansas to not win, or UNC to lose to someone other than duke.

[gofurman]

Now that NC State has beaten Virginia Tech it's set.

Thursday:

Noon: No. 8 Maryland (16-14) vs. No. 9 Wake Forest (15-16)
2 p.m.: No. 5 NC State (20-11) vs. No. 12 Boston College (9-21)
7 p.m.: No. 7 Clemson (16-14) vs. No. 10 Virginia Tech (15-16)
9 p.m.: No. 6 Miami (18-11) vs. No. 11 Georgia Tech (11-19)

Friday:

Noon: No. 1 North Carolina (27-4) vs. Maryland/Wake winner
2 p.m.: No. 4 Virginia (22-8) vs. NC State/Boston College winner
7 p.m. No. 2 Duke (26-5) vs. Clemson/Virginia Tech winner
9 p.m.: No. 3 Florida State (20-9) vs,. Miami/Georgia Tech winner

Saturday

1 p.m.: First semifinal (probably UNC vs. somebody)
3 p.m.: second semifinal (Duke-FSU?)

Sunday 1 p.m.: Championship Game

Comments: NC State and Miami are the two bubble teams. Don't think a win Thursday helps them much (although a loss would kill them). But a victory Friday -- State over Virginia; Miami over FSU -- would probably be enough to get them in. As for Duke, I'd rather have Clemson in our bracket than NC State, but I worry that Virginia Tech might be more dangerous than the Tigers.As for UNC, yeah, they have an easy path -- but they earned it. No complaints.

With Michigan State losing today at home to Ohio State, I think it more likely that the ACC Tournament winner gets the fourth No. 1 seed -- especially if Duke beats UNC in the title game.

I am going to go on record and say I'd far rather face Vt as they are playing now than Clemson as they are playing now. I went and watched them play in Person over at Littlejohn thursday and Clemson couldn't hit the side of a barn - 0for 11 from three and like 14 of 25 free throws... and the Tigers still won. This despite VT hitting 8 of 16 threes !!! Think about that , Clemson won with a negative 24 point differential from distance. Erick Green is a hot dog and not a good distributor. You see them in person and you see why we beat VT by 15 or whatever at VT. The second time with VT was a 36 hour turnaround and all that jazz.. trap game.

[UrinalCake]

If it were to end today, I think the ordering would be
Kansas
UNC
MSU
Duke

Based on the S-curve, that puts us as the #2 in Kansas's bracket, which is probably the one I'd want out of the top four.

But first things first... what scares me about our half of the ACCT is that FSU and Miami have already beaten us and VT took us to overtime. Also, in that first game our opponent will already have a game under their belt, so given our propensity for starting of slowly we could potentially fall into an early hole with the crowd against us. Better put on the big boy pants!

[davekay1971]

UNC's biggest challenge en route to the finals is likely to be NC State. UVa is simply depleted with injuries and doesn't have the horses to keep up with UNC. NC State SHOULD be a reasonably good matchup for UNC, but they haven't shown their best when matched up against their rivals. So why do I think they have any shot against the 'Heels? Because Wood has finally broken out of his shooting slump, and CJ Leslie has finally realized he should be one of the best players on the court every game he plays. For the last quarter of this season, Leslie has been very, very good. State's biggest problems against Carolina: (1) no one on State has shown they can contain Marshall; (2) Wood doesn't match up well defensively against Barnes; (3) State is thin on talented interior guys, and Howell has a hard time staying on court against Zeller, Henson, and UNC's +7 foul advantage. State has to hit on all cylinders to beat Carolina.

Duke has a tougher route, mainly because of FSU in our half of the bracket. Obviously, we can't take Va Tech or Clemson lightly, but if we play well we should find ourselves in the semis.

[uh_no]

Based on the S-curve, that puts us as the #2 in Kansas's bracket, which is probably the one I'd want out of the top four.

But first things first... what scares me about our half of the ACCT is that FSU and Miami have already beaten us and VT took us to overtime. Also, in that first game our opponent will already have a game under their belt, so given our propensity for starting of slowly we could potentially fall into an early hole with the crowd against us. Better put on the big boy pants!

THey usually do the 2's more by geography than the S curve...

so it would end up with

UK in st louis
syracuse in boston
kansas in atlanta (looks like its closer than pheonix)
unc in pheonix

then MSU in st louis
and us in atlanta, so yes we end up with kansas, unless they slot UNC in atlanta and kansas in pheonix, in which case we'd be in UNC's bracket...who knows if the committee would try to avoid that...on the other hand...it owuld be fun to play unc in the tournament some time...


SO, its very much up in the air where everyone ends up....but if we end up a 2 seed and UNC is a 1, we're almost guaranteed to be in atlanta with either UNC or Kansas, if we're both 2's (unlikely...i think both UNC and Duke would have to lose before the finals and kansas and MSU both win), We' probably end up in St louis with UK

if we end up as the #1 seed, I think we end up in phoenix, unless we get all the up to #3 overall...which would involve beating UNC in the title game as well as MSU and kansas both losing...

I'd start buying tickets to atlanta

[throatybeard]

I can think of few events as delicious as a Wolfy upset of Carolina in the Semis. They're good for one or two of these a decade.

[UrinalCake]

Agree that NC State is a potential sleeper here. If I were reseeding the tournament based on who I'd least want to play, I'd probably put them #3 right after Carolina and us. I think their season was done in by their ridiculous scheduling stretch where they had to play us, FSU, and UNC in a six day span.

As far as the #1 seeds it's hard for me to imagine them shipping UNC off to Phoenix if they were to win the ACCT. I think it's more likely Kansas goes to Phoenix and UNC stays in Atlanta. If Kansas had a clearly dominant resume over UNC then I could see it, but otherwise I think they try to create the minimum total travel distance for all the #1's rather than the minimum distance for the first #1, then the minimum distance for the second, etc.

I don't think there's any way we end up in UNC's bracket as #1 and #2, especially since the ACC will probably only get 4 or 5 teams in. We'll probably be in the same pod though.

[uh_no]

Agree that NC State is a potential sleeper here. If I were reseeding the tournament based on who I'd least want to play, I'd probably put them #3 right after Carolina and us. I think their season was done in by their ridiculous scheduling stretch where they had to play us, FSU, and UNC in a six day span.

As far as the #1 seeds it's hard for me to imagine them shipping UNC off to Phoenix if they were to win the ACCT. I think it's more likely Kansas goes to Phoenix and UNC stays in Atlanta. If Kansas had a clearly dominant resume over UNC then I could see it, but otherwise I think they try to create the minimum total travel distance for all the #1's rather than the minimum distance for the first #1, then the minimum distance for the second, etc.

I don't think there's any way we end up in UNC's bracket as #1 and #2, especially since the ACC will probably only get 4 or 5 teams in. We'll probably be in the same pod though.

That is false. They first come up with the absolute order...then slot them one at a time. If UNC is the 4 and kansas is the 3, kansas gets atlanta.


By the time they get to actually placing teams, they've already decided the absolute order, so there is no more "well it was close so we can waffle a bit more"

[davekay1971]

I'd say there is 0% chance that Duke ends up in the same bracket as UNC (regardless of which of us is a 1 seed and which is a 2 seed). I'd say there is also a 100% chance that Duke and UNC will both play at Greensboro on Friday, March 16. So buy tickets now to help Duke out in what will basically be games in front of the Carolina faithful. (as a side note, despite the prevailing theory that the NCAA wants Duke to win at all costs, there isn't a team in America more screwed by the pod system, which has Duke as the only top seed in the nation playing in front of their arch-rivals fans on a regular basis)

Back to the ACCT, I'll be a huge Wuffie fan right through Saturday, hoping they can make their fondest dream come true, securing a spot in the NCAA Tournament by upsetting Carolina. Then their miracle run can stop as K wins yet another ACC championship.

[GoDukeDevils]

As far as the #1 seeds it's hard for me to imagine them shipping UNC off to Phoenix if they were to win the ACCT. I think it's more likely Kansas goes to Phoenix and UNC stays in Atlanta. If Kansas had a clearly dominant resume over UNC then I could see it, but otherwise I think they try to create the minimum total travel distance for all the #1's rather than the minimum distance for the first #1, then the minimum distance for the second, etc.

UK is pretty much a lock for Atlanta, as is Syracuse for Boston. At the minimum, UNC will go to St Louis but most likely Phoenix.

[uh_no]

UK is pretty much a lock for Atlanta, as is Syracuse for Boston. At the minimum, UNC will go to St Louis but most likely Phoenix.

kentucky is closer to st louis than to atlanta...but only by a few dozen miles. It depends on what number the committee has (they have a sheet with the distance of every team to every tournament site and take the smallest one when they need to choose preference)

[Olympic Fan]

I'd say there is 0% chance that Duke ends up in the same bracket as UNC (regardless of which of us is a 1 seed and which is a 2 seed). I'd say there is also a 100% chance that Duke and UNC will both play at Greensboro on Friday, March 16. So buy tickets now to help Duke out in what will basically be games in front of the Carolina faithful. (as a side note, despite the prevailing theory that the NCAA wants Duke to win at all costs, there isn't a team in America more screwed by the pod system, which has Duke as the only top seed in the nation playing in front of their arch-rivals fans on a regular basis)

Back to the ACCT, I'll be a huge Wuffie fan right through Saturday, hoping they can make their fondest dream come true, securing a spot in the NCAA Tournament by upsetting Carolina. Then their miracle run can stop as K wins yet another ACC championship.

There is a lot of confusion about the difference between NCAA Selection and Bracketing Guidelines and NCAA Selection and Bracketing Rules.

A guideline is a suggestion that the committee can modify if it wants -- for instance the geographical placement of the top seeds is dictated by guidelines. We talked in another thread about kentucky being 14 miles closer to St. Louis than Atlanta ... thus the guidelines suggest that they should be sent to St. Louis. But if the committee wanted more balance, they could put them in Atlanta to allow Kansas to play in St. Louis -- thus two seeds will get more favorable placement.

But there are dictates to protect conference teams from each other -- and those are RULES, not guidelines. One rule is that teams from the same conference cannot be seeded to meet before the reguinal finals (unless a conference has more than eight teams per conference). Another rule says that thje committee must protyect the top three seeds from a multibid conference by placing them in different regions. That rule was changed after 1979, when UNC was No. 1 and Duke No. 2 in the East.

Therefore, this is zero chance that Duke and UNC will be in ther same regional. And FSU will be in a third regional.

Now, one of Virginia or Miami or even NC State (if they make it) could be in the same regional as Duke -- but they would be in the opposite bracket.