Austin Rivers Appreciation Thread

[COYS]

I pretty much never start new threads, and I know there are a few AR threads already going, but I think he deserves his own appreciation thread. The Duke fanbase has been oddly lukewarm to the guy while the national media has really not done much besides hold the party line that he is "selfish" and a "poor decision maker."

Since we just had the Duke-UNC game and Austin emerged as the hero, let's compare Austin to Barnes, who was hyped as a potential number 1 pick (Austin has never been rated even close to that highly by NBA scouts) and came in with even higher expectations. Barnes struggled in the beginning of his freshman year. Yet, the media only questioned whether or not he was as good as the hype, not whether or not he was a selfish player. This was the media's message despite the fact that Barnes shot for a lower percentage, had a lower assist rate, only a slightly better turnover percentage, and a lower offensive rating all while compiling a lower assist rate and a HIGHER usage rate. In other words, Barnes had the ball more and did less good for his teammates and himself than Austin. Austin is not miles better in any of these categories, but he's still been better. Plus, I only have Barnes stats from the whole season, which includes his February through March improvement. I bet Austin looks even better when compared to Barnes at the same point last season.

In addition Austin's defense has improved dramatically as the season has gone on (an area where Barnes is still relatively uninvolved), and he has bought into guarding the opposing team's best players on more than a few occasions (his first half D on Barnes was fun to watch).

Finally, let's take a look at the subjective evidence that is out there for Rivers being "selfish" or having a bad attitude. In Maui against Kansas, as the team was trying to seal the deal against what we now know is a very, very good Jayhawks squad, Austin had a relatively poor game and was actually relegated to the bench for the final 5 minutes in favor of Thornton, a recruit who fell outside the top 100 rankings. Did the supposedly selfish Austin Rivers pout and threaten to transfer because he, the son of an NBA coach and a potential lottery pick, was pulled in favor of some no-name recruit? No! He celebrated with his teammates on an amazing win and continued to work hard at his game so that he could EARN the chance to be in there at the end of the next game. A few games ago he was "benched" yet again after K felt the team and Austin needed another shakeup. Did the "self-absorbed" and "entitled" Rivers become a locker room cancer? No! Yet again he worked hard to earn his starting spot back. Against FSU, he hit a the game tying layup in spectacular fashion when the team needed a bucket, getting his first chance to win the game for his team since he watched from the bench in Maui. Of course, that didn't turn out as we would have hoped. However, last night against UNC, he got the chance again, and this time there was no way he would be denied.

Austin EARNED the chance to take the shot. It wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. In fact, K and the staff had practiced tough love with him quite a bit, from opting for Thornton in Maui to moving Austin out of the lineup for a game in January. If Austin were a bad teammate, entitled, self-absorbed, selfish, or a locker room cancer, his teammates would not have mobbed him like that. If he had a bad attitude, was impossible to coach, or was unwilling to learn, he wouldn't have even been in the game and he definitely would not have started (remember, he had to prove to K that he deserved to get that chance). Finally, if he weren't really all that talented or skilled, he wouldn't have been able to score the 26 points prior to that last three that kept the team in the game and was a big part of why Austin had the ball for the game winning shot in the first place.

Austin isn't a perfect player, but honestly, I don't know what anyone has to complain about. The national media can tell whatever story they want, but the actual story of Austin Rivers needs to be told by Duke fans. It's the only story that sticks when you look at the facts. Austin is one of the best freshman Duke has had or will ever had. We need to appreciate that!

[COYS]

I pretty much never start new threads, and I know there are a few AR threads already going, but I think he deserves his own appreciation thread. The Duke fanbase has been oddly lukewarm to the guy while the national media has really not done much besides hold the party line that he is "selfish" and a "poor decision maker."

Since we just had the Duke-UNC game and Austin emerged as the hero, let's compare Austin to Barnes, who was hyped as a potential number 1 pick (Austin has never been rated even close to that highly by NBA scouts) and came in with even higher expectations. Barnes struggled in the beginning of his freshman year. Yet, the media only questioned whether or not he was as good as the hype, not whether or not he was a selfish player. This was the media's message despite the fact that Barnes shot for a lower percentage, had a lower assist rate, only a slightly better turnover percentage, and a lower offensive rating all while compiling a lower assist rate and a HIGHER usage rate. In other words, Barnes had the ball more and did less good for his teammates and himself than Austin. Austin is not miles better in any of these categories, but he's still been better. Plus, I only have Barnes stats from the whole season, which includes his February through March improvement. I bet Austin looks even better when compared to Barnes at the same point last season.

In addition Austin's defense has improved dramatically as the season has gone on (an area where Barnes is still relatively uninvolved), and he has bought into guarding the opposing team's best players on more than a few occasions (his first half D on Barnes was fun to watch).

Finally, let's take a look at the subjective evidence that is out there for Rivers being "selfish" or having a bad attitude. In Maui against Kansas, as the team was trying to seal the deal against what we now know is a very, very good Jayhawks squad, Austin had a relatively poor game and was actually relegated to the bench for the final 5 minutes in favor of Thornton, a recruit who fell outside the top 100 rankings. Did the supposedly selfish Austin Rivers pout and threaten to transfer because he, the son of an NBA coach and a potential lottery pick, was pulled in favor of some no-name recruit? No! He celebrated with his teammates on an amazing win and continued to work hard at his game so that he could EARN the chance to be in there at the end of the next game. A few games ago he was "benched" yet again after K felt the team and Austin needed another shakeup. Did the "self-absorbed" and "entitled" Rivers become a locker room cancer? No! Yet again he worked hard to earn his starting spot back. Against FSU, he hit a the game tying layup in spectacular fashion when the team needed a bucket, getting his first chance to win the game for his team since he watched from the bench in Maui. Of course, that didn't turn out as we would have hoped. However, last night against UNC, he got the chance again, and this time there was no way he would be denied.

Austin EARNED the chance to take the shot. It wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. In fact, K and the staff had practiced tough love with him quite a bit, from opting for Thornton in Maui to moving Austin out of the lineup for a game in January. If Austin were a bad teammate, entitled, self-absorbed, selfish, or a locker room cancer, his teammates would not have mobbed him like that. If he had a bad attitude, was impossible to coach, or was unwilling to learn, he wouldn't have even been in the game and he definitely would not have started (remember, he had to prove to K that he deserved to get that chance). Finally, if he weren't really all that talented or skilled, he wouldn't have been able to score the 26 points prior to that last three that kept the team in the game and was a big part of why Austin had the ball for the game winning shot in the first place.

Austin isn't a perfect player, but honestly, I don't know what anyone has to complain about. The national media can tell whatever story they want, but the actual story of Austin Rivers needs to be told by Duke fans. It's the only story that sticks when you look at the facts. Austin is one of the best freshman Duke has had or will ever had. We need to appreciate that!

I neglected to provide a link to my stats comparing Barnes and Rivers: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...move=jj-redick

Note that you have to manually select Barnes freshman year stats. It defaults to his sophomore year stats.

[davekay1971]

Time to give him due. I can't explain the lukewarm reception (great way to describe it) either, but if there isn't an ocean of Duke Blue love for Austin after that game, there's something wrong with us! The kid was amazing.

Time for that media party line to go away, too. Austin is a scoring guard, first and foremost, not a natural distributor. But he's learning to do that, too. Last night he only had 2 assists. Would have had a couple more if shots had been finished, but, still, last night Austin dominated by scoring, not distributing. Other games, however, especially since ACC play has begun, he has done a great job creating opportunities for others. He's improved his D dramatically, and D is, at it's essense, all about putting team first. D is an inherently unselfish act.

I think the Rivers-is-selfish mantra has been crap from the beginning. It's now absurd and obviously inaccurate crap.

But, IMO, after last night, Coach K should be in Austin's ear telling he needs to BE selfish...and by that I mean he needs to look to score. He needs to look for his drive, his opportunities to get to the line, his open looks from 3, his mid-range shot, etc. He needs to be that scorer on our team that other teams game plan to stop. Because then Curry, Dawkins, the Plumli, RK, etc will all find themselves just a little more open.

[arnie]

Time to give him due. I can't explain the lukewarm reception (great way to describe it) either, but if there isn't an ocean of Duke Blue love for Austin after that game, there's something wrong with us! The kid was amazing.

Time for that media party line to go away, too. Austin is a scoring guard, first and foremost, not a natural distributor. But he's learning to do that, too. Last night he only had 2 assists. Would have had a couple more if shots had been finished, but, still, last night Austin dominated by scoring, not distributing. Other games, however, especially since ACC play has begun, he has done a great job creating opportunities for others. He's improved his D dramatically, and D is, at it's essense, all about putting team first. D is an inherently unselfish act.

I think the Rivers-is-selfish mantra has been crap from the beginning. It's now absurd and obviously inaccurate crap.

But, IMO, after last night, Coach K should be in Austin's ear telling he needs to BE selfish...and by that I mean he needs to look to score. He needs to look for his drive, his opportunities to get to the line, his open looks from 3, his mid-range shot, etc. He needs to be that scorer on our team that other teams game plan to stop. Because then Curry, Dawkins, the Plumli, RK, etc will all find themselves just a little more open.

And forget the comparisons with Kyrie - Austin has beaten the Heels!

[JNort]

SportsNation top 5 most exciting CBB players:

5. Markel Brown- Oklahoma State
4. Jeremy Lamb-UCONN
3. Thomas Robinson- Kansas
2. Anthony Davis- Kentucky
1. Austin Rivers- Duke

[DUKIE V(A)]

Thanks for this thread. I too believe that AR has received a ton of unfair criticism (and as much as I do not like him I believe HB has as well). This has become a "what have you done for me in the last 10 seconds society," and it must be difficult to be under such a microscope. My hope is that if Austin is to make some type of misplay in the coming weeks that our own fanbase will avoid jumping all over him for it (as we have been prone to do this season with many of our players). Austin has done nothing but play hard since becoming a Blue Devil. He is a winner!

[roywhite]

Austin has been playing really well over the last 2 or 3 weeks, getting more minutes than anyone else and playing a very good all-around game.

One of the comments I had in the Duke -- UNC thread is that Austin is now able to read the play on the court, meaning to evaluate the choices and make his play, instead of putting his down and going toward the basket, no matter what the defense. The game seems to have slowed down for him. He's really a dynamic player.

[nobodybutDUKE]

The "It's lonely at the top" quotation, I'm sure has applied to Austin this year. Arriving with possibly the
nation's top billing as the number "1" high school basketball player in all of America creates its own set
of feelings.

Today Austin is at the top, but being in the clouds and on top of the mountain looking down on a smiling
Blue Devil Nation, is probably pretty cool and not quite as lonely.

[MCFinARL]

And forget the comparisons with Kyrie - Austin has beaten the Heels!

Those comparisons were never fair to Austin in any case--because they were apples to oranges (shooting guard to point guard, probably not a big surprise if the point looks like a better distributor) and because they were comparing a real live still playing player to everyone's fantasy of what Kyrie would have continued to be had he played the whole season. It's pretty hard to have a bad game or make a crucial mistake if you aren't actually playing.

[Jderf]

I'm just gonna go ahead and repeat a post from a month or two ago. I think it fits here.

It utterly amazes me that Austin has faced so much criticism from our fanbase when, by all accounts, he is having an absolutely historic freshman season. By Duke standards, that is. And I've heard that those are some pretty good standards.

I have a feeling that we're going to see a lot less of that criticism from here on out.

[dukeballboy88]

I dont know if he reads the DBR or not but just in case he does I just want to say thank you. Thanks for coming to Duke, thanks for working so hard to improve your game and thanks for that awesome 3 you dropped in the Dean Dome. That was the biggest F U 3 I have ever seen!

I heard his interview on the Scott Van Pelt show yesterday and he said he was understanding where guys are on the floor more now than he was. I was uh oh. When this kid gets comfortable with what K wants, watch out.

I think he needs an apology thread from Duke fans more so than an appreciation thread. I feel like I have defended him on these boards and in public the entire year. Comparing him to Kyrie is an insult to Austin in my opinion. If I had to choose Id take Austin 10 out of 10 times. Kyrie played with 2 of K's all time greats and all he was asked to do was keep the car between the lines. Austin has been asked to drive it, fix it, keep the oil changed and keep it washed and waxed and make a payment or 2. No other freshman I have ever seen at Duke has been asked to do more than Rivers and delivered the way he has. 20-4 against the hardest schedule in the nation and Rivers has lead the way!

[CDu]

I think he needs an apology thread from Duke fans more so than an appreciation thread. I feel like I have defended him on these boards and in public the entire year. Comparing him to Kyrie is an insult to Austin in my opinion. If I had to choose Id take Austin 10 out of 10 times. Kyrie played with 2 of K's all time greats and all he was asked to do was keep the car between the lines. Austin has been asked to drive it, fix it, keep the oil changed and keep it washed and waxed and make a payment or 2. No other freshman I have ever seen at Duke has been asked to do more than Rivers and delivered the way he has. 20-4 against the hardest schedule in the nation and Rivers has lead the way!

I think that's an unfair statement to Irving. Rivers is developing into a superstar. He wasn't as ready to dominate at the college level as Irving was right out of the gate, but he's certainly finding himself now. Both are fantastic talents, but with completely different games. To say you'd unequivocally take Rivers over Irving (who was the #1 pick in the draft last year and doing a fantastic job in the NBA) is shortchanging a very great player.

Now, in terms of the challenges faced by the two players coming in, I agree with you. Rivers had a much more difficult situation. He doesn't have the senior leadership and talent beside him that Irving had. But that doesn't mean that Irving wasn't a dominant force in his brief time on the college courts.

I have commented on some of Rivers' limitations early on this season. But I don't feel like I need to apologize for that. The limitations were there, as should be expected of any freshman. He seems to be figuring things out as the season wears on and as he gets more comfortable with playing against and with better competition. I absolutely appreciate his development. There's a seemingly unlimited ceiling for him if he can continue to expand his floor game. But as a scorer, he really seems to have found himself again. And that's huge for us.

[AsiaMinor]

It was a great shot, a fine performance. But this is a team sport. I'd have preferred a full team appreciation thread, but that's just me.

[COYS]

It was a great shot, a fine performance. But this is a team sport. I'd have preferred a full team appreciation thread, but that's just me.

I think this takes a bit of a narrow angle. If you read any of my other posts, it is obvious that I have immense respect for the team as a whole and understand that Duke wins and loses as a team. However, due to some of the criticism directed at Austin from his own fan base and the national media, I think having a thread that explicitly sings his praises is perfectly appropriate. Austin fought hard to earn the chance to win the game for his team. I'm sure the staff and his teammates would be happy with him getting due credit for his hard work and determination.

[dyedwab]

This seems as good a place as any to say this.

During the last few games - when Duke's focus, effort and intensity has come under fire from the media, fans, coaches, and even teammates, Austin has obviously been the hungriest player on the court. When your most talented guy is also the guy most likely to make the hustle plays, that bodes well for him and the team.

And, as said up thread, his learning curve has clearly flattened a little. Every game, I see 3-4 plays where I say, "He wouldn't have done that in November". Austin is really good, plays really hard, has learned a lot and...

...Beat Carolina at the Dean Dome on a last second shot!!!! (That insures his legend!!!!)

[Starter]

Terrific thread, thanks to COYS for starting it. It's amazing how a preconceived narrative can simply stick on someone, whether it was ever true or not. I thought the articles back in November about the "problems" with Rivers, or questioning whether he was "overrated" were completely absurd. People who really watch and follow this team know the true Austin Rivers, the one we've had all season, whose desire to improve and singular focus was stronger than virtually any player we've seen. He's also one of the most important players we've had in recent years, along with Kyrie, in terms of the perception of our school to recruits. And having talked to him, he's a really great kid. Now everyone is starting to realize what we already know: Rivers is a very good basketball player and a credit to our school and basketball program.

[toooskies]

Austin has an NBA-style offensive talents, which no doubt come from seeing his father involved in the NBA game for so many years. He has mastered how to break down college-level defenders and get past them, and when to recognize that they're giving him plenty of room to get a clean shot off. Watching those skills, to someone who only sees the highlights, can make you think you're watching a selfish player, because most selfish players think they have those skills. But Austin actually has those skills, and he doesn't use them selfishly.

But what he's really done is find a way to use those talents in a team context. He's rarely a ball-stopper when running an offensive play, certainly not more than Curry or Dawkins. He doesn't demand the ball just so he can shoot it, and he doesn't turn the game into a 1-on-5 escapade. You don't see him dunk much, and not because he can't do it. He isn't working on a highlight reel, and he's not trying to improve his "draft stock". He's learning, and trying to learn, everything else about basketball, from team offense to tough defense to rebounding.

Note that after never having gotten 5 rebounds in a college game, Austin has snagged at least 5 in 4 out of 5 games!

But when the team needs him to take that one big shot... Well, I wouldn't want anyone else taking it!

[Stray Gator]

Doc's Dukie did the deed--dropped the Deep Dagger in the Dean Dome, dooming Deputy Dawg to defeat and despondency. Devilishly delightful!