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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Miles Plumlee = Casey Sanders

    Same height. Same build. Same athleticism. Same skills. Same hands.

    I like this kid; he gives his all, all the time, he's smart (he knows how to spell his coach's name), he's earnest, he's tough, he's a team player, he has flashes of excellence. I like that commentator (and former NBA scout) Jimmy Dykes sees potential greatness in him, and keeps complimenting him, saying that as soon as (if?) he gets the same confidence that Mason has, he is going to be nearly unstoppable... but, I think this misses one important element: Much like Casey Sanders, who also had the potential for greatness, I think Miles is stymied by his hands.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge View Post
    Same height. Same build. Same athleticism. Same skills. Same hands.
    I think this is a stretch. They don't have the same build -- Casey was a little taller and seemed a lot skinnier. Miles has a much better jump shot and notwithstanding the many criticisms he gets from DBR posters, he has a much better all-around offensive skills. Casey was a much better shotblocker. Miles is a much better rebounder. Casey was faster. Miles is stronger. "Hands" is a very subjective thing, but I think Miles's hands are much better than Casey's were.

    Really, other than them both being tall and athletic, I don't see much of a comparison at all.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    I think that a more appropriate thread title would be Miles Plumlee's hands = Casey Sanders' hands. I'm not sure that I even would agree with that statement, but I definitely don't think it's fair to equate the two as players.

    Build: Miles is more muscular than Casey and much more broad across the chest.

    Athleticism: Casey had a great reach and good hops for someone his size. Miles is an insanely good jumper and runs very well. Miles is definitely more athletic in my mind.

    Skills: Today Miles took his man off the dribble and hit a 15-foot jumper. He's also hit a couple threes in his career. These are not consistent skills, but they are definitely skills that Casey did not exhibit. We may be more apt to remember the dunks and blocks, but it's not fair to say that Miles does not possess other skills.


    Overall, I think that Miles is a better player than Casey. Unfortunately, I think that his more advanced skill set has tempted him to force some plays and take some shots (fadeaway jumpers) that have diminished his play in fans' minds. His ceiling may be close to Casey's ceiling in overall value, but I definitely think that Miles is going to spend this season at a higher level than Casey ever reached.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I think this is a stretch. They don't have the same build -- Casey was a little taller and seemed a lot skinnier. Miles has a much better jump shot and notwithstanding the many criticisms he gets from DBR posters, he has a much better all-around offensive skills. Casey was a much better shotblocker. Miles is a much better rebounder. Casey was faster. Miles is stronger. "Hands" is a very subjective thing, but I think Miles's hands are much better than Casey's were.

    Really, other than them both being tall and athletic, I don't see much of a comparison at all.
    I agree with most of this but would go even further (as juice did) - in terms of athleticism, Casey was a fast runner for his size, but other than that, he did not seem very athletic to me. I think Miles is much more athletic than Casey was.

    With respect to "hands," I'd sum up my comparison this way: I was not confident that Casey could even catch a pass thrown to him. With Miles, I am more confident that he'll catch a pass, but am also confident that the ball will be stripped before he has an opportunity to finish.
    "I don't like them when they are eating my azaleas or rhododendrons or pansies." - Coach K

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    I think this is a stretch. They don't have the same build -- Casey was a little taller and seemed a lot skinnier. Miles has a much better jump shot and notwithstanding the many criticisms he gets from DBR posters, he has a much better all-around offensive skills. Casey was a much better shotblocker. Miles is a much better rebounder. Casey was faster. Miles is stronger. "Hands" is a very subjective thing, but I think Miles's hands are much better than Casey's were.

    Really, other than them both being tall and athletic, I don't see much of a comparison at all.
    Sanders was always listed at 6'11"; Miles has been variously listed as 6"10 or 6"11-- tonight, for example, Mason was even characterized at both heights, at different moments in the same game, by Dykes-- but really, the difference here is not enough to matter.

    Both of these guys started out thinner, and got thicker as they aged-- MP1 somewhat more than Sanders, but look at video of CS from freshman year to senior year, and you will see a similar thickening.

    I wish your last statement were true-- I want it to be true-- but it just ain't so... this is the real essence of the post... all of the other physical characteristics are subordinated to this one overriding concern-- and it remains the determinant factor on MP1's ultimate ceiling.

  6. #6
    For those curious:

    http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...=miles-plumlee

    I happen to think Miles will make strides to reach his ceiling this year, which is definitely higher than Casey Sanders'.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by juise View Post
    I think that a more appropriate thread title would be Miles Plumlee's hands = Casey Sanders' hands. I'm not sure that I even would agree with that statement, but I definitely don't think it's fair to equate the two as players.

    Build: Miles is more muscular than Casey and much more broad across the chest.

    Athleticism: Casey had a great reach and good hops for someone his size. Miles is an insanely good jumper and runs very well. Miles is definitely more athletic in my mind.

    Skills: Today Miles took his man off the dribble and hit a 15-foot jumper. He's also hit a couple threes in his career. These are not consistent skills, but they are definitely skills that Casey did not exhibit. We may be more apt to remember the dunks and blocks, but it's not fair to say that Miles does not possess other skills.


    Overall, I think that Miles is a better player than Casey. Unfortunately, I think that his more advanced skill set has tempted him to force some plays and take some shots (fadeaway jumpers) that have diminished his play in fans' minds. His ceiling may be close to Casey's ceiling in overall value, but I definitely think that Miles is going to spend this season at a higher level than Casey ever reached.
    Your first statement is probably correct.

    But there is very little difference between them on athleticism-- Casey was a phenomenal runner and leaper, just like Miles. That play that Miles made to block a shot on the drive down the lane tonight is exactly like some that Casey used to make. I will grant that Miles has made a few more mid-range jumpers in his career than Casey ever made... but in the most important area of the floor (close to the basket), ability to grasp rebounds, errant shots, putbacks, etc... Miles has the same skills as Casey had.

  8. #8
    Miles = Casey
    Rivers = Jason Williams
    Mason = Alaa
    Tyler T = Sean Dockery
    Seth = Scheyer
    Josh = John Smith
    Dre = Ricky Price
    Murphy = Taymon
    RKelly = DFerry
    Marshall = Clay Buckley

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Reilly View Post
    Miles = Casey
    Rivers = Jason Williams
    Mason = Alaa
    Tyler T = Sean Dockery
    Seth = Scheyer
    Josh = John Smith
    Dre = Ricky Price
    Murphy = Taymon
    RKelly = DFerry
    Marshall = Clay Buckley
    Many good ones, though I think Dawkins is a faaaar better outside shooter than Price.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Finally found where the weather suits my clothes and settled down in Brentwood, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge View Post
    Many good ones, though I think Dawkins is a faaaar better outside shooter than Price.
    My thought exactly.

    And I would add that Seth is more like Duhon than Scheyer...

    Grey Devil

  11. #11
    Andre = Price ...

    ... is an impressionistic take on unrealized potential and what could have been (yet, what still might be) ...

    ... stepping on the sideline w/ the ball in your hands as you start your move = disappearing in the corner ...

    ... all the tools, will it all come together ...

    * Dawkins is at 41% on 3's for his career; in his breakout soph (14 ppg) year, RPrice shot 39% on 3's (33% for career on 3's)
    Last edited by Reilly; 11-22-2011 at 02:13 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by juise View Post
    Skills: Today Miles took his man off the dribble and hit a 15-foot jumper. He's also hit a couple threes in his career. These are not consistent skills, but they are definitely skills that Casey did not exhibit. We may be more apt to remember the dunks and blocks, but it's not fair to say that Miles does not possess other skills.
    1 to be exact. He's 1-1 lifetime on 3pt shots. The best 3pt shooter in Duke history

  13. #13

    Don't believe its all the hands

    Whatever not having good hands means anyway. I believe it is more about lack of reaction to the game situations, the thought process of basketball. Some like Kyrie and Jon have it while others like Miles and Casey before him didn't. Bringing the ball down where it can be stripped is one problem. Needing to take a dribble to settle oneself is another. Miles just doesn't seem like he anticipates what will happen next. Physically he is great and I don't believe relatively small hands to be the problem. Perhaps he just tightens up under game pressure situations. After 3 1/4 years of play it would have improved if it was going to.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    This is as Far as I Can Go

    ... in making comparisons:

    Plumbeard = Zoubeard +/-

    sage

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!

    Miles Plumlee = Casey Sanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Really, other than them both being tall and athletic, I don't see much of a comparison at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    ... in making comparisons:

    Plumbeard = Zoubeard +/-

    sage
    There is one more very important similarity. They all wear National Championship rings! And Miles might even get a second one this season
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudge View Post
    Sanders was always listed at 6'11"; Miles has been variously listed as 6"10 or 6"11-- tonight, for example, Mason was even characterized at both heights, at different moments in the same game, by Dykes-- but really, the difference here is not enough to matter.

    Both of these guys started out thinner, and got thicker as they aged-- MP1 somewhat more than Sanders, but look at video of CS from freshman year to senior year, and you will see a similar thickening.

    I wish your last statement were true-- I want it to be true-- but it just ain't so... this is the real essence of the post... all of the other physical characteristics are subordinated to this one overriding concern-- and it remains the determinant factor on MP1's ultimate ceiling.
    Sanders did bulk up from freshman to senior year. But he came to Duke probably 25-30lbs lighter than Plumlee as a freshman (maybe more). He was Henson-like skinny. Sanders bulked up to be probably 10-15lbs lighter than Plumlee is now. When you factor in the extra inch of height and (I suspect) reach differences, Plumlee has always been substantially less skinny than Sanders. Though the difference was certainly greater earlier in their careers.

    Plumlee is also much more competent when dealing with contact. Sanders simply crumpled to the ground with the slightest contact. Plumlee may not be Brand-like in playing through contact, but he's much stronger. Miles also is a far superior shooter. And he's much more coordinated. Sanders just always seemed awkward and gangly. Miles has never seemed that way.

    Basically, Sanders as a senior was about as productive as Miles as a sophomore (but with better shotblocking skills). But Sanders as a freshman, sophomore, and junior was well behind sophomore Miles.

    There are similarities - neither has the best hands and both are more athlete than player. But I think Miles is closer to player than Sanders. Part of that is because I think he's stronger and more coordinated, and I think he's actually a better athlete. But part of it is that he has a bit more basketball skill too.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Ryan does remind me of Ferry.
    Thorton reminds me of Wojo. Tenacious on D.
    Dre has made better decisions than Ricky, enough said.
    Austin is competitive like JWil but has a special kind of swagger that I am growing to really like.
    Seth reminds me of Marty Clark
    Miles reminds me lot of Taymon D.
    Mason is a McRob type.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga2 View Post
    Whatever not having good hands means anyway. I believe it is more about lack of reaction to the game situations, the thought process of basketball.
    I COMPLETELY agree. I've always thought the game was always going a little too quickly for Miles, or maybe he was just thinking too much (or a little bit of both). It seemed during the China/Dubai trip and C2C that the game had finally slowed down for him, but now I'm a little less sure of that. Certain parts of the game don't seem to be instinctual for him.

    I'd say the same goes for Austin when it comes to the drive-and-kick-or-shoot situations. That part of the game will hopefully slow down for him.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    Ryan does remind me of Ferry.
    Thorton reminds me of Wojo. Tenacious on D.
    Dre has made better decisions than Ricky, enough said.
    Austin is competitive like JWil but has a special kind of swagger that I am growing to really like.
    Seth reminds me of Marty Clark
    Miles reminds me lot of Taymon D.
    Mason is a McRob type.
    Seth and Marty Clark? Don't see that at all. Marty was 6' 6". If Seth had his current skill set and was 6' 6" he would be locked out of the NBA right now.
    dukelifer

  20. #20
    Yeah, a lot of these comparisons seem WAY off to me. Murph (an inside/outside SF/PF) and Tamon (a banging physical big)? Totally and completely different players. Seth (leading freshman scorer in the country with a sweet shot and shifty handle) and Marty Clark (a reserve with some general ability)? No way. And Mason is way more focused on playing closer to the basket and as a traditional "big" than McRoberts was.

    As for the original... while they are very different (Miles would break Casey in HALF) Casey and Miles DO seem to have similar hands/basketball IQ/physical IQ. There are times they seem to be FIGHTING the ball with their hands, which is depressing... they frequently bobble rebounds out of bounds or right into opposing player hands But as someone else noted, they wear on those hands a national title ring, which is pretty sweet
    Last edited by Lord Ash; 11-22-2011 at 10:28 AM.

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