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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chapel Hill

    David Cutcliff is a world class Carnival Barker . . .

    David Cutcliff is a world class Carnival Barker, who, faced with the task of promoting the unpromotable, has made an understandably shell shocked adult fan base, believe again, without much basis. He has clearly caught the attention of his own players, who are playing at a higher level, without, IMO, materially more talent than their predecessors. It also seems that he has caught the attention of a few other communities, most notably the high school football coaches in North Carolina, whom Cut has cultivated with substance, skill and dedication, and who have the power to populate his camps and recruiting pipeline with players who may make a difference in the future. He has also caught the attention of those within the Duke administration who control the short term economic fate of the program. They will support him, and continue to fund the program at the higher level which came into place with the arrival of Coach Cut. Even with his promotional and motivational skills, he has failed to meaningful engage the student body. They could be a significant factor in making the Wallace Wade environment more fun and exciting (it is often neither). Good luck with that, it's a problem that spans generations. IMO, Coach Cutcliff is a great leader. Really great. We are lucky to have him. He is the perfect man for an unbelieveably challenging situation. We got a world class Carinaval Barker when that was the first thing we needed. What he has not done is get the results he has publically proclaimed to be his expectation onf the field. We need to get better on Saturday, and we need more and better players to do it. It is debateable whether he has recruited players of significantly higher talent. He has asked us to believe that he has a plan to recruit players who are better than the "experts" understand and that his emphasis on speed will make us competative. It's a good pitch, and I hope it's right. However, it requires a lot of faith -- perhaps event the suspension of reason -- to believe that this coaching staff understands talent in a way those against whom they compete in recruiting do not, or that players of high talent will pass on going places where they know they will win for the opportunity to play at Duke. The thing about turning a football team around is that it takes twenty or thirty or more better players to field a significantly more talented team. You're not going to turn that many in one class. So it takes five years of recruiting so you can get five or six difference makers every year. So, here's where I am: I'll follow the man whereever he wants to go, and stand up for him any time he needs it. He's not just our best hope, he is the man who will get this job done. I've seen Duke's defense and special teams make more tackles the other guy will member for awhile (or can't remember at all) this season than in the previous ten combined. We are starting to play football like we mean it. And for those of you who believe in luck, if we have as much good luck next year as we've had bad luck this year, we'll win six games without even getting better. And if we get better, we'll win even more. And when we do, it will be a story for the ages, and the beginning of something special.
    GTHC

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte
    Nice summary - I didn't know if the 'Carnival Barker' was implying something negative but after reading the post I think it fits Cut's position and role as Duke's HC pretty well. I've been going to games since before I can remember, over 30 years now, and Wally Wade was and continues to be a place where I will run into lifelong friends, make new friends and have memories to treasure forever.

    All that said, the losing does really hurt and I wouldn't really expect anyone more than a dedicated, devoted, life long fan to be able to attend nearly every game and listen to/watch every minute of every game like I try to do. Maybe it's because I am close family friends with half of Duke's FBall radio crew and listening every single week is a sort of shared misery that we go through together. Like a moth to the flame, if one has been following Duke Fball for the last 20+ years you pretty much know how the current play you're watching is going to go, then how the drive is going to end, and then how the game will ultimately end up and then how the season, the Thad Lewis era, the Roof/Franks/Goldsmith eras and so on are most likely going to end up - disappointing. I, as a fan in general, want my team to win more than anything. However, if Duke doesn't win a big game or have a season better than the last it doesn't affect the love and passion I have for my team. Sure, it's a heck of a lot harder to make plans and drive from Charlotte to Durham for a game if you know your team is going to lose, but I go anyway. That's what you do if you are a fan. There are varying degrees of fandom, and trust me when I say that Duke has it's share of fans who will be there for every brutal moment that has come to define a program. And we'll be back next game, next year - just as long as there is something, anything to look forward to in the future. It might not show up in wins and losses just yet but Cut has changed this program for the better, and he's trying to build a program just like K did when Tom Butters stood up for him after a few rough years.

    The Duke team I have seen since Cut took over does have a different feel around it. Whether measurable or not by way of wins or losses, there most certainly is something to feel good about when it comes to the Duke Football Program. In the end, unless it's just in your blood for generations like my family and the other insufferable fans who show up every week regardless, we need wins to feel good about and to celebrate and to fondly remember.

    I'm not here to defend the program or tell anyone they need to keep waiting because things are turning better or to tell them they are not true fans for giving up after yet another brutal loss - I just want others to know that there are plenty of us out there who make the drive on Saturdays to tailgate with friends and to watch football and root for their team. If we can't be there we listen on the radio to the whole game, check the score during the wedding ceremony, sit in the one seat at the bar who has the Duke game on, etc.

    In the end I think there is something to be said about loyalty when it finally pays off with what fans have been wanting for years - a competitive program. When (not if!) that day comes I will be absolutely giddy and will likely call all of my Duke fan pals who I don't talk to often and celebrate Duke Football. Until then...I'll keep my season tickets, clear out Saturdays when there are home games so I can go, make sure there is a radio to listen to games I can't make and follow recruiting in the hopes that next year will be better than the last...maybe it's insanity.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lompoc, West Carolina
    Good title for this thread.

    I'm not one.
    I will never be one.
    I think all are entitled to their own opinion about if they wish to be one.
    All that goes around, comes back around.

    Winning is a staged process. Success will not come to any losing program in less than one recruiting class. At least, a program that will be able to maintain that success. Lots of Nick Sabans can come and go, but keeping them around will make the difference. Recruits want to attend a school and team that has a chance to win. Constant coach changing isn't a way to keep any consistancy. Lots of you see the evidence of keeping a good pilot at the helm, doing things the right way and what can be acheived by staying on that path when you look at the basketball program. Football's not that different.

    Oh. By the by, Houston Nutt's available. Maybe some might think a couple of seasons here can turn things around for the better. Quitters. Maybe, if we were all show as much patience as they do at Ol'Miss and MS State, we could be at their level of winning acheivement and coach retention and fan satisfaction.

    Oooh! Butchie-boy is free of employment. We all know he's a big proponent of doing things with a staff that equally believes in the 'Right way'.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CLT Devil View Post
    Nice summary - I didn't know if the 'Carnival Barker' was implying something negative but after reading the post I think it fits Cut's position and role as Duke's HC pretty well. I've been going to games since before I can remember, over 30 years now, and Wally Wade was and continues to be a place where I will run into lifelong friends, make new friends and have memories to treasure forever.

    All that said, the losing does really hurt and I wouldn't really expect anyone more than a dedicated, devoted, life long fan to be able to attend nearly every game and listen to/watch every minute of every game like I try to do. Maybe it's because I am close family friends with half of Duke's FBall radio crew and listening every single week is a sort of shared misery that we go through together. Like a moth to the flame, if one has been following Duke Fball for the last 20+ years you pretty much know how the current play you're watching is going to go, then how the drive is going to end, and then how the game will ultimately end up and then how the season, the Thad Lewis era, the Roof/Franks/Goldsmith eras and so on are most likely going to end up - disappointing. I, as a fan in general, want my team to win more than anything. However, if Duke doesn't win a big game or have a season better than the last it doesn't affect the love and passion I have for my team. Sure, it's a heck of a lot harder to make plans and drive from Charlotte to Durham for a game if you know your team is going to lose, but I go anyway. That's what you do if you are a fan. There are varying degrees of fandom, and trust me when I say that Duke has it's share of fans who will be there for every brutal moment that has come to define a program. And we'll be back next game, next year - just as long as there is something, anything to look forward to in the future. It might not show up in wins and losses just yet but Cut has changed this program for the better, and he's trying to build a program just like K did when Tom Butters stood up for him after a few rough years.

    The Duke team I have seen since Cut took over does have a different feel around it. Whether measurable or not by way of wins or losses, there most certainly is something to feel good about when it comes to the Duke Football Program. In the end, unless it's just in your blood for generations like my family and the other insufferable fans who show up every week regardless, we need wins to feel good about and to celebrate and to fondly remember.

    I'm not here to defend the program or tell anyone they need to keep waiting because things are turning better or to tell them they are not true fans for giving up after yet another brutal loss - I just want others to know that there are plenty of us out there who make the drive on Saturdays to tailgate with friends and to watch football and root for their team. If we can't be there we listen on the radio to the whole game, check the score during the wedding ceremony, sit in the one seat at the bar who has the Duke game on, etc.

    In the end I think there is something to be said about loyalty when it finally pays off with what fans have been wanting for years - a competitive program. When (not if!) that day comes I will be absolutely giddy and will likely call all of my Duke fan pals who I don't talk to often and celebrate Duke Football. Until then...I'll keep my season tickets, clear out Saturdays when there are home games so I can go, make sure there is a radio to listen to games I can't make and follow recruiting in the hopes that next year will be better than the last...maybe it's insanity.
    Thanks for that post, CLT Devil! I am positive that you have put into words exactly how a lot of us feel about Duke Football. I wouldn't call us special, even if I think we are. We are different, that's for sure. Is it a personality glitch? Should we be proud of it? Ashamed? It doesn't matter. Some people are just hardwired to stick with things until they are finished, or until things get better.

    There used to be more folks like us out there, but times have changed. Some people switch teams or sides like the blowing wind changes. I compare long-time Duke Football fans (in a more lighthearted manner, of course) to the folks who stayed in the Prairie Belt throughout the Dustbowl years. We know things will get better, we're just not sure when.

    And when it happens, I can be that old man who has stories to tell about the 'good-ole days'. Those who have stuck with Duke through good and bad will understand that there have definitely been some fine days, that the won-lost records don't tell the whole tale. Maybe it's all the hard work the players and coaches have put in despite the records... maybe it's just showing up and looking down into the classic horseshoe stadium for the first time each year...

    But something calls us back. And I've always felt like it was a good thing to do. I don't want, need, or deserve a gold star for it. That's just part of who I am. A Duke Football fan.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My feelings on this are complicated.

    I think Cutcliffe is improving the program. I think things are much better than they were in the Roof years. I don't think that firing him makes any sense because as others have said, this is not a program where we can bring in a top coach.

    However, I'm exhausted trying to care. I admire those of you who do but I've seen too many close losses, missed opportunities, and plain dumb luck to take any comfort in symbolic victories. We are 3-8. In Cutcliffe's 4th year, that's a disappointment. Period. I find it agonizing enough watching close loss after close loss on my couch every Saturday and can't even imagine how some of you make it out to Wallace Wade week after week.

    As much as a UNC win would pick up my spirits and build momentum for next year I can't even let myself think it's possible.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau
    Quote Originally Posted by killerleft View Post
    Thanks for that post, CLT Devil! I am positive that you have put into words exactly how a lot of us feel about Duke Football. I wouldn't call us special, even if I think we are. We are different, that's for sure. Is it a personality glitch? Should we be proud of it? Ashamed? It doesn't matter. Some people are just hardwired to stick with things until they are finished, or until things get better.

    There used to be more folks like us out there, but times have changed. Some people switch teams or sides like the blowing wind changes. I compare long-time Duke Football fans (in a more lighthearted manner, of course) to the folks who stayed in the Prairie Belt throughout the Dustbowl years. We know things will get better, we're just not sure when.

    And when it happens, I can be that old man who has stories to tell about the 'good-ole days'. Those who have stuck with Duke through good and bad will understand that there have definitely been some fine days, that the won-lost records don't tell the whole tale. Maybe it's all the hard work the players and coaches have put in despite the records... maybe it's just showing up and looking down into the classic horseshoe stadium for the first time each year...

    But something calls us back. And I've always felt like it was a good thing to do. I don't want, need, or deserve a gold star for it. That's just part of who I am. A Duke Football fan.
    As this discussion has moved along, some very interesting points have emerged.

    Loyalty can power behavior for a long time.

    At the center of the discussion of the Duke football program are the players over the years. As alumni go, they are among the most loyal groups. I remember reading some information from Alumni Affairs (I think) which indicated that as an "affinity group," former football players gave more money to Duke than any other group and former football players had held a disproportionately high number of alumni leadership positions over the years. If participation in sports has intrinsic value, surely how our football players live their lives after Duke is testimony of sorts.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Florida

    MY two cents

    I argued back prior to Coach Cut's hiring, when there was lots of discussion about the type of program we wanted, that I would always rather have a 3-8 team (this year's record to date) than compromise our Duke values. One does not have to look far this year to see examples of non-Duke values in running a football programs and the fallout to the institutions involved.

    Having been a loyal fan, a season ticket holder and seeing as many games as possible, either in person or on TV, my observations are as follows:

    The defense seems to be much improved with this year's new scheme. Very pleasantly surprised considering how young the starters were.

    The offensive line after several injuries certainly played as well as expected, at least to me.

    The kicking game suffered with dealing with injuries as well, especially Will's ankle injury. (I suspect that led to some of the criticized decisions mentioned by others.)

    The one area where I thought we really did not improve, in fact, thought we were not as good as in previous years, was the offensive play calling. It got to the point where it became so predictable that my buddy and I had a prediction rate of over 50 percent, particularly inside the "red zone." If we could do it, I suspect that opposing defensive coaches could do it even better. The one thing that always made me "ill" was running a play for a first down that only had a chance of success if the opposing team made a mistake. (Example: numerous short yardage passing plays when we needed long yardage.)

    Bottom line, we will all be happier if we win this week.

    And I am one that thinks that Coach Cut needs an extension.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    I've found this season more frustrating than any since Cut got here, but for good reasons: we SHOULD be winning some of the games we're losing.

    Think about that, right there. That's a huge difference compared to the pre-Cut years. We SHOULD be winning games now. It's been brutal to see us in the position to win games 3 times and lose them on kicking issues and small errors. We're basically a kicking game away from being 6-5 right now. Yes, it is the small things that separate good teams from bad teams, but where we were before Cut was MONUMENTALLY large things making us downright awful.

    I can put up with frustration knowing we should be winning some games we're losing, rather than going back to being thrilled that we win any games at all.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    We're basically a kicking game away from being 6-5 right now.
    If only we could've had last year's kicking game with this year's team...

    If there is such a thing as football karma, just imagine how amazing our team will be when we start cashing in on that. I'm thinking back-to-back-to-back national titles.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    I can put up with frustration knowing we should be winning some games we're losing, rather than going back to being thrilled that we win any games at all.
    You have summed up part of what I have been trying to say, and done it much better than I could. Bravo.

    Let's beat UNC and end on a strong note!

  11. #31
    I sympathize with Chillin's post as I tend to side more with his viewpoint than some of the others here. This season has been an eye opener in some respects and a lot of it, not good.

    First, I think Cut has done a lot of very good things for Duke Football. He's improved football awareness on campus and in the region, he's helped improve facilties, we've gotten some better athletes, we are certainly more competitive, the football fundamentals are better (but can still be improved). But to me, thats where it ends.

    I'm not sold on Cut as a coach. His switching of Renfree to Connette/Boone in the middle of a drive is baffling and I think its impacted Sean negatively. He has no faith in our improved running game opting to sneak Boone/Connette when Thompson and Scott are more than capable. We run really stupid pass plays, we don't stretch the defense, we seldom go past the sticks on 3rd down. We look clueless in end of game situations where we have the ball and need a score to WIN!!!!!!

    Probably the most damning to me is I don't think Cut is a very good motivator. It was sobering to realize that Richmond went 0-8 in the CAA this year, a team that was below average and had embarrassed us twice at home, we should have destroyed them worse than Tulane. And yet the team was timid, apprehensive and scared to lose, I think the staff was the same. Unacceptable. I want someone that realizes that the Richmond Spiders are the punchline to the joke that is Duke football and wants to make them pay. I want someone that would rather clean the bathrooms in Grand Central Station with his tongue than lose to Wake Forest again. I want someone who sees the number 12 team in the nation reeling at our home stadium and goes in for the kill. I want someone who tells out players to run through a granite wall, and they DO IT, with a crazed smile on their faces. Thats what this team needs, and I don't think its Cut.

    I thought a couple of weeks ago that it would be great for Everett Withers to run his mouth about our team like he did NCSU so we'd be motivated to beat them. Then I remembered I have absolutely no faith in anyone on our staff to do something about it so he'd probably get away with it.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Let's beat UNC and end on a strong note!
    I second this recommendation, but whether we win and finish 4-8 or lose and finish 3-9, I'll be back next year as a loyal Duke fan cheering on our football team. As frustrating as this season has been to date, for some reason, I am oddly optimistic about our prospects for success in 2012. I'm a glass half full guy, and always optimistic about Duke football, but the optimism usually arrives with the start of Spring Training not in the midst of a winless November.
    Bob Green

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by captmojo View Post
    Oh. By the by, Houston Nutt's available. Maybe some might think a couple of seasons here can turn things around for the better. Quitters. Maybe, if we were all show as much patience as they do at Ol'Miss and MS State, we could be at their level of winning achievement and coach retention and fan satisfaction.
    Interesting you mention these schools. Ole Miss's quick trigger is how Duke got Cutcliffe in the first place, ultimately. State, well that was a different scenario. You have the iconic coach in recent times (Sherrill) retiring after three putrid seasons. Then the Croom hire. I always felt Croom didn't get the chance he should--they said they'd give him four years after the Sherrill sanctions ended, or, seven years. They basically admitted his first three years were hamstrung by the sanctions resulting from the assistant coach paying peeps, so those three weren't on Croom's clock.. Croom looked to turn the corner in year four (8-5, bowl win) but when the team stepped back in 2008, they fired him in year five, even though the initial (oral?) agreement would seem to indicate they'd give him through 2010. Now there's Dan Mullen, who succeeded with Croom's senior recruits in 2009 and 2010, even winning the Gator Bowl in 2010(-11). And he was the hero, and everyone was scared Florida would poach him when they instead hired Will Muschamp. But mow this season is a step back and the natives are mildly restless. Doesn't take long.

    If I'm the AD, no matter how frustrating crap like the Richmond game is, I give Cutcliffe about eight years. Maybe seven. But what's to lose? We fired Goldsmith on a knee jerk. At some point, you have got to say, this is our guy, we believe in him, and we're gonna poo on the pot with him.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


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    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

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