MBB: Duke 77, Belmont 76 - Post-Game Thread

[Verga3]

Tough win, but a win is a win. Disappointed that we couldn't maintain a pretty big lead.

Impressed by Dawkins's key three pointer. Looked cool as a cucumber. Ryan made the big free throws, too.

I think the team will get better. Rivers is no Irving, but he's got serious skills. I think the season will be interesting; I hope to see the team gel a lot in the next few weeks.

Belmont is good...and Andre looked cool as a cucumber because he IS cool as a cucumber. This will be a tough team in March...very together.

[BD80]

Only caught the second half of the second half, but there is some room for the staff to coach up the PG position. Hopefully someone on the staff qualifies as a point guard coach.

It is so great to see the guys on the floor again!

A lot of good teaching moments for guys learning new roles. On to 902!

[Duke79UNLV77]

Duke is very young. We will be a very different team come Feb and March.

I agree with the second statement, but not so much with the first. We started a senior, a red-shirt junior, a junior, a junior, and a freshman, and our 2main subs were a junior and a sophomore. That's not all that young for a big-time program these days.

That said, roles and style of play have shifted substantially and will continue to be tweaked. We really need to work on cutting down the turnovers. That seems to be the biggest area for growth for Rivers early on. Mason took a big step forward, but Miles still needs to finish better. One block for the team is not enough, given the collective Plumlee athleticism. The perimeter defense also needs to improve. I thought Ryan played better in the second half than the first. Both Andre and the team need to utilize his talent more. He had one good finish in the first half but later on hesitated, looked to pass, and walked. He still needs to move more but his pure shot will always be a weapon, as he showed late. I thought Cook played well, and obviously Tyler was a big energy lift. Murphy should carve out a role at some point. Seth shot well from 3, but is still figuring out his new role.

[Sixthman]

This team has improved a lot since recent exhibition wins. No reason to think that kind of improvement won't continue. Let's go Duke!

[dukedoc]

I was actually pretty encouraged. They lost a sizable lead, but still hung on in the end instead of getting too shaken.

Tyler and Mason! Wow. If they can maintain a good level of contribution I think this team will be pretty darn strong not because of superstar power per se but because of depth and balance. Seth is Seth. Andre with the clutch 3 pointer.

Too many instances of the big guys running to floor. That play when Mason tried to do an awkward dunk from Michael Jordan territory left me SMH. He did many more positive things tonight to offset those few awkward moments.

Finally, the positive side of a freshman being one of your most talented players is that Austin will be on the steepest learning curve on the team. He is already showing spurts of his well-known talent, and if he rides the curve through the year with Coach K's guidance, I truly think he'll be uber-dangerous come tourney time.

In case big man Tony Parker was watching, it was probably an encouraging sight to see Mason take center stage.

[lotusland]

Hoops again finally!
Great game for Mason and TT! Mason is a really terrific passer for a big man. He was a beast on the boards and a very servicable scorer tonight. I also thought AR's agressiveness was a big positive tonight. I thought Seth actually struggled at PG tonight. I like TT's effort but I don't think it bodes well for Duke if they need him to play anywhere near starter minutes. I hope Seth settles in at PG and Dawkins/Murphyor SG step up enough at the wing that we don't have to play AR there with 2 smallish guards.

Hopefully we can handle PC easily enough to get everyone some minutes tomorrow.

[delfrio]

So is Thornton the new Wojo? Stats-wise, Wojo was certainly better his freshman year, but I think the bar is certainly reachable. Whether Tyler ever gets defensive player of the year, I'm not sure, but it seems like he's got the tools (though I don't know if he's got quite enough of the fire yet).

[superdave]

We knew this was going to be a tough opponent, and we got a tight game. Duke showed some flashes of stellar play tonight but made enough mistakes and relaxed enough to let Belmont back in it.

I thought Duke got out-hustled and did not finish a lot of plays. But for an early game, they did plenty of things right. They fed the post well and played aggressively, but they dribbled into traps and played too fast at times. The knowledge and experience and talent is pretty good, but the polish and execution is not so good. We'll get better.

Hats off to Belmont. They are a cohesive team that did so many things right. As Coach K said in the post game presser, they wore us down.

[superdave]

Man of the Match vote?
Mason has 13, 14 and 6 assists. He was the only consistent guy for us tonight. The only one who played pretty well the whole game.

[feldspar]

it's gonna be a long season....

Really? I think it's going to be quite a fun season. Trust me, you'll look back on this game come March and be proud of this team for the gutty win they pulled out tonight.

Yes, they blew a 16-point lead, but they also didn't panic when Belmont cut it to 1. This team's got more poise than it should have with its lack of leadership.

All in all, a quality win in my book against one of the best mid-major teams out there.

[Greg_Newton]

Funny how you kept seeing Thornton creep ominously up to the scorer's table whenever the momentum started swinging towards Belmont's favor. I imagine whenever anything goes wrong, K slowly nods to Tyler and says in a low voice "Fix it.", then Tyler does what he needs to do. Kind of like Mike on Breaking Bad... he's the guy you don't want to see coming at you.

He had a couple tough breaks near the end, though. If you watch the freak and-1 when Clark to cut it to 72-71 in slow-mo, Thorton actually somehow cleanly hit the ball straight up out of Clark's hands... it just happened to go in the basket, and he got called with his fifth foul.

What in the world was Curry thinking forcing it with ~15-25 seconds on the shot clock, up 4, with a minute left? I thought his value was going to be his clutch nature in games like this, so hopefully he gets it together.

Mason played very well overall, but only decent on offense. He still needs to use his body much better - if you get iso post position 4 feet from the rim against a smaller guy, you should get a better shot than an 8-foot jump hook, even though it went in.

I think Kelly will start to be better when we play bigger, less flittish teams. He struggles when he gets sped up.

Miles needs to be a much better presence, IMO. Not sure why he didn't see the floor as the game went on, as Kelly wasn't playing particularly well, but he's close to being very good. He's using his strength much better (great power move in the first half), and I think he'll have some big games once he learns to read double-teams and sees a few more shots drop.

Rivers with a near-perfect game until the last five minutes. He gave away some points by getting too aggressive with his hands on defense late, but he's ahead of where I thought I'd be at this point. I almost think he should be the primary ballhandler, with Curry picking his spots to create in the halfcourt.

Anyone know why Murphy's in the doghouse so badly?

[Troublemaker]

I liked what I saw.

I mean, the high-end talent is clearly there. We have shooters galore, one potentially dominant penetrator, and experienced athletic bigs that are scoring points this year. There can't be more than 4 coaches in the country that like their roster more than ours.

Now, obviously, our team is also full of guys that are inexperienced in their current, increased roles and who need more games playing with each other to develop confidence in how each of them fits into the overall puzzle. They're not making the right play in every situation they encounter yet and they're not completely sure where their teammates are supposed to be at all times yet. But that will come. It's going to take time and it's going to be sloppy for awhile. But the odds are heavily in favor of this team reducing their turnovers and other mistakes as the season progresses.

It was the first game of the season and we got to see:
1) Mason playing like a dominant big man
2) Austin looking like a foul-drawing machine at times off the dribble
3) Andre adding another clutch three to his memory bank
4) Ryan adding a couple of clutch free throws to seal the game to his memory bank.

The team also got a win against the 19th best team from last year (Pom) who basically returned everyone. I can't ask for much more than that for our first game.

Fist!

[dukepsy1963]

......I think. Good win tonight, though I was really concerned toward the end. Maybe it's been said, but ball movement and setting up people for 3's looked kinda ragged to me.

A Personal Note:

Next week I will be in Cameron for the first time since I got a Navy physical there in 1963. True! About 100 of us NROTC guys received our senior physicals there one hot spring afternoon. I understand that Cameron is still a furnace. Some things never change.

Seeing a game in Cameron again has been on my bucket list for a while now....and now I'm going! I cannot wait...

[Neals384]

Seth was really good shooting tonight.

Well, 4/5 from beyond the arc is fantastic, but what about 1 for 8 on 2 pointers?

[Greg_Newton]

By the way, what in the world are we doing with that atrocious 4-high offensive set? Almost without fail, it just led to a Plumlee frantically pass-faking at the top of the key, with the rest of our players running around 15-20 feet from the basket until a guard forces something.

I'd like our default set to be Curry and Dawkins on the wings, the bigs on the blocks, and Rivers breaking down his defender and dishing to whomever's man helps. But regardless, our bigs should NEVER both be that far from the basket, IMO. We need to get them the ball on the blocks, and that's where they should be, period.

[Neals384]

- Austin Rivers' talent is undeniable, though it was a tale of two halves for him. In the first, he was able to get his shot any time he wanted, and the stretch where he was able to repeatedly draw fouls early in the game was key in pulling Duke forward. In the second, he wasn't nearly as successful. Still, I predict Rivers will be our most important player by the end of the season...the ball will be in his hands when we need a play most. He'll either draw the foul, dish to an open big man, kick out to a shooter,, or finish the play himself.

What I'm looking for from Austin is for him to make his teammates better. Just one assist tonight, five turnovers and his defense was suspect. If he can learn to dish to a big man or kick out to a shooter, that will be a big step in his transformation to team player. But so far I see no indication that he's looking for assists.

[Greg_Newton]

And I'll shut up... but lateral quickness could be something that is a factor going forward. Seth, Dre, Mason, Miles, and Kelly are not very quick laterally, which is why Belmont broke us down at will in the first half and got so many points around the rim. I think we're going to need our guards to back off a little bit at some point in the season if we want to give ourselves the best chance to win.

[Kedsy]

Mason was downright dominating but he needs to improve his A/TO ratio.

Mason's A/TO ratio was the best on the team tonight. And if he continued a 3/2 A/TO ratio, it would be the best such ratio for a Duke big man in awhile. Perhaps we're being a bit overcritical?

it's gonna be a long season....

Seriously? You're not usually an alarmist so I'm not sure what's up here. Personally, I was thrilled with the performance. Yes, we lost focus for a few minutes in the middle of the 2nd half, but overall I thought we did well.

- Kudos to Tyler Thorton!

Kudos to Tyler Thornton, too.

By the end of the season our rotation will go 7 deep although up to 10 will see minutes.

Well, that's exactly where we are in the beginning of the season. Against Belmont our rotation went 7 deep, although 10 saw minutes.

And I'll shut up... but lateral quickness could be something that is a factor going forward. Seth, Dre, Mason, Miles, and Kelly are not very quick laterally, which is why Belmont broke us down at will in the first half and got so many points around the rim. I think we're going to need our guards to back off a little bit at some point in the season if we want to give ourselves the best chance to win.

I disagree. I thought we played very good D in the first half. I didn't feel like they were breaking us down "at will." Not at all. They got points around the rim because they are crafty and snuck in while their man was double-teaming elsewhere. I thought our perimeter D was very strong in the first half. We lost concentration in the middle of the 2nd half and they started getting a few open threes, but overall it was much better defense than I expected. If our guards backed off, Belmont would have started hitting their threes earlier and we would have been in trouble.

[J4Kop99]

Normally I'd be pretty angry after a game like that... However, with this current team, I think a close game, against an experienced team is a perfect way to start the season.

I don't know what the panic level was like on DBR but for whatever reason, I continued to stay confident with this team. I knew that Belmont would make a comeback but I never believed Duke would lose the game.

-It is clear Coach has a lot of work to do with these guys but the potential is there for a big season. I liked, for the most part, what I saw out of Austin and Mason. Seth struggled from inside the arc but that shouldn't be a problem... Ryan and Andre were both disappointing but I can't really complain too much when you take into consideration the clutch shots that both made at the end of the game. The rest of the guys were solid and I look forward to tomorrow's game.

[wk2109]

And I'll shut up... but lateral quickness could be something that is a factor going forward. Seth, Dre, Mason, Miles, and Kelly are not very quick laterally, which is why Belmont broke us down at will in the first half and got so many points around the rim. I think we're going to need our guards to back off a little bit at some point in the season if we want to give ourselves the best chance to win.

I agree. Most of our big losses from the past couple of years (NC State, Georgetown, St. John's, Arizona) were a result of not being able to stop dribble penetration + dishes to bigs around the rim. A lot of that dribble penetration was happening against Belmont too. Disciplined upperclassman-filled teams will always be able to find the open man after breaking a perimeter defender down.

I wish Duke could utilize dribble penetration more often. Which leads to the next quote...

What I'm looking for from Austin is for him to make his teammates better. Just one assist tonight, five turnovers and his defense was suspect. If he can learn to dish to a big man or kick out to a shooter, that will be a big step in his transformation to team player. But so far I see no indication that he's looking for assists.

K has said that Austin is the team's best breakdown guy and that he is good at feeding the bigs off the dribble but not as good at kicking it out for open shooters. I think an important part of Duke's offensive development is Austin's improvement in making decisions once he breaks down his man. He did an awesome job of getting to the line in the first half, but he also needs to be able to finish at the rim (or utilize that floater), dish to a big, or kick it out to a shooter. I too didn't see any indication that Austin was looking for assists. He has the potential to generate a lot of offense for his teammates -- he just has to tap into it.


One thing re: Andre: his obvious unwillingness/inability to even try to dribble on the perimeter makes him a liability during crunch time. Tyler doesn't do much with the ball on the perimeter either, but at least he's capable of handling the ball against pressure. I guess two ballhandlers is enough some of the time, but I wish Andre could at least take a few dribbles around the perimeter to keep the offense flowing. But that shot he hit...wow. I call that the "Scheyer": hitting a late three to put the game just out of reach.