Kelly in China

[johnb]

We are months from a meaningful game, but Ryan's play reminds me why off-season lineup guesses may be fun but definitely premature. Of course, it's also premature to pencil RK in as a 32 minute a game guy based on his play in August (or to pencil in Miles AND Ryan ahead of Mason), but it is interesting.

[gumbomoop]

We are months from a meaningful game, but Ryan's play reminds me why off-season lineup guesses may be fun but definitely premature. Of course, it's also premature to pencil RK in as a 32 minute a game guy based on his play in August (or to pencil in Miles AND Ryan ahead of Mason), but it is interesting.

I'm guessing you are being deliberately hyperbolic here, to emphasize your point that what is interesting is also altogether speculative right now.

Just to be clear, even if one of our 3 main inside players - Miles, Mason, Ryan - breaks ahead of the other 2, it's very unlikely that any of them would average 32 mpg. If we assume Josh might get some PT, then the Bigs-3 would be splitting maybe 72-75 mpg. Probably in any particular game, any 1 of the 3 might play as much as 30 minutes [though even that would surely be infrequent], but that player might vary from game to game, depending on matchups, who's hot, short-term injury, foul situation, etc. It's even conceivable [translated as: speculative] that Josh might make it Bigs-4, or at least every once in a while play 15-20 minutes in some game[s].

Speculating further, I imagine an emerging consensus on EK that K will gradually winnow by mid-season to a basic 8-rotation, expanding to 9-perhaps, even 10-vaguely-possibly, with the regular-8th guy emerging from, and those 9th/10th guys rotating among: Hairston, Gbinije, Murphy, Cook. My speculation does leave out MP3, who, I have posted elsewhere, will likely play a lot in 2012-13. Roughly speaking, Marshall's years at Duke may profitably mirror that of thread-relevant Ryan Kelly. How closely will depend on who leaves when, who arrives when.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

We are months from a meaningful game, but Ryan's play reminds me why off-season lineup guesses may be fun but definitely premature. Of course, it's also premature to pencil RK in as a 32 minute a game guy based on his play in August (or to pencil in Miles AND Ryan ahead of Mason), but it is interesting.

Ah, yes, the requisite Nick Horvath warning on preseason practice observations! Well done sir. I personally disagree, and think we will see Ryan preform at this level, and perhaps even higher, as the season progresses, but we have been warned!

[ArkieDukie]

Ah, yes, the requisite Nick Horvath warning on preseason practice observations! Well done sir. I personally disagree, and think we will see Ryan preform at this level, and perhaps even higher, as the season progresses, but we have been warned!

I agree with our esteemed Paradigm of Optimism. IMO RK's game improved greatly between his freshman and sophomore seasons. If he improved to a similar degree during this off-season, he will be a significant contributor this year. I was a HUGE fan of his game last year and look forward to seeing continued improvement.

[weezie]

we will see Ryan preform at this level, and perhaps even higher, as the season progresses

He does look terrific. Much more coordinated and pulled together. He's getting the knack of being where the ball is and where the ball is about to go, just like Kyle.
Suddenly, I'm in a much better frame of mind. Except for those new smilies, yikes!

[CDu]

We are months from a meaningful game, but Ryan's play reminds me why off-season lineup guesses may be fun but definitely premature. Of course, it's also premature to pencil RK in as a 32 minute a game guy based on his play in August (or to pencil in Miles AND Ryan ahead of Mason), but it is interesting.

In fairness, I think most people figured Kelly would start for us this year. But I don't think anyone expects Kelly (or any of the bigs) to average 32mpg this year, even after the two big games in China.

The fact that Miles has started over Mason is the more surprising development. But that I think is much more variable (and more surprising) than Kelly starting and playing well.

I don't doubt that Kelly will be a starter and double-digit scorer for us this year. I would be surprised if Miles is the other starter (I expect Mason to take the job back), so that will fun to watch moving forward.

[MCFinARL]

In fairness, I think most people figured Kelly would start for us this year. But I don't think anyone expects Kelly (or any of the bigs) to average 32mpg this year, even after the two big games in China.

The fact that Miles has started over Mason is the more surprising development. But that I think is much more variable (and more surprising) than Kelly starting and playing well.

I don't doubt that Kelly will be a starter and double-digit scorer for us this year. I would be surprised if Miles is the other starter (I expect Mason to take the job back), so that will fun to watch moving forward.

You are probably right. Here's the thing about Miles, though (caveat: based purely on what I have read or seen on TV, with no first-hand knowledge): although his performance may vary, his attitude and work ethic don't appear to. He is always working, trying for loose balls, doing whatever he can to stay involved and contribute to the team. As the only senior on this team, he is starting out modeling hustle and effort--which are important (and maybe even captainly) hallmarks of Duke teams. I could see him holding this starting spot for a while, even if he is the first person subbed out with Mason coming in early in games.

PS--I realize I maybe taking thread off topic here. Apologies.

[Bob Green]

Ryan Kelly looked real good in the second game so I'm optimistic he will make a sophomore to junior leap a la Nolan Smith. As a diehard Duke fan, I sure hope that happens. From a leadership by example perspective, I would not be surprised to see Kelly named Team Captain (or Co-Captain) later this summer. The coaching staff has to be impressed with his continued development.

In regard to Miles and Mason, I've been a long time proponent of Miles due to his interior defense. IMO, he is the best low post big man we have on the defensive end of the court and he deserves to be in the starting line-up. If he can develop some offensive consistency with the jump hook and 8-10 foot jumper, he could be on his way to a superb senior campaign. That left-handed jump hook he knocked down yesterday was impressive.

To be clear, my preference to see Miles start, should not be construed as a negative toward Mason. Mason is uber-athletic and has a huge upside but it appears something hasn't clicked. Once the click happens in Mason's head (visions of Paul Newman just went through my scatter brain), he will be bad news for our opponents. Hopefully, the click happens this season.

Ultimately, when it comes to the minutes per game statistic for Miles and Mason, and to a lesser degree Ryan, foul trouble will be the major determinant. All three are going to play major minutes every game this season if they can stay out of foul trouble.

[oldnavy]

Ryan Kelly looked real good in the second game so I'm optimistic he will make a sophomore to junior leap a la Nolan Smith. As a diehard Duke fan, I sure hope that happens. From a leadership by example perspective, I would not be surprised to see Kelly named Team Captain (or Co-Captain) later this summer. The coaching staff has to be impressed with his continued development.

In regard to Miles and Mason, I've been a long time proponent of Miles due to his interior defense. IMO, he is the best low post big man we have on the defensive end of the court and he deserves to be in the starting line-up. If he can develop some offensive consistency with the jump hook and 8-10 foot jumper, he could be on his way to a superb senior campaign. That left-handed jump hook he knocked down yesterday was impressive.

To be clear, my preference to see Miles start, should not be construed as a negative toward Mason. Mason is uber-athletic and has a huge upside but it appears something hasn't clicked. Once the click happens in Mason's head (visions of Paul Newman just went through my scatter brain), he will be bad news for our opponents. Hopefully, the click happens this season.

Ultimately, when it comes to the minutes per game statistic for Miles and Mason, and to a lesser degree Ryan, foul trouble will be the major determinant. All three are going to play major minutes every game this season if they can stay out of foul trouble.

Bob, I agree with your assessment. I hope Mason has that Alaa Abdelnaby type moment. Remember how he just seemed to get it one day and from that point on had a fantastic year?

[MChambers]

Bob, I agree with your assessment. I hope Mason has that Alaa Abdelnaby type moment. Remember how he just seemed to get it one day and from that point on had a fantastic year?

I actually think Mason gets a lot of it, but he really struggles on offense, especially as to scoring. His rebounding is excellent and his defense improved greatly last year. He's a decent ballhandler for his size and makes some very nice passes. But he can't shoot to save his life and I think that influences all of his offensive play. In particular, I think he's scared to get fouled, because he has to go to the line. (I think this was one of Chris Webber's problems as a player.) I was pleased to see earlier this summer that Miles said that Mason was learning to play through contact. He's got to do that if he's going to contribute in the low post.

[Kedsy]

To be clear, my preference to see Miles start, should not be construed as a negative toward Mason. Mason is uber-athletic and has a huge upside but it appears something hasn't clicked. Once the click happens in Mason's head (visions of Paul Newman just went through my scatter brain), he will be bad news for our opponents. Hopefully, the click happens this season.

Even without the "click," Mason is bad news for our opponents. I was watching the highlights this morning and I said to myself -- we have something special going on when Mason Plumlee is the 6th best player on our team.

[nmduke2001]

I wish Mason would embrace his inner Rodman. With his size and athleticism Mason could be a dominate defender and rebounder.

[MCFinARL]

I wish Mason would embrace his inner Rodman. With his size and athleticism Mason could be a dominate defender and rebounder.

WOW! It's pretty hard to imagine Mason with pink hair in a wedding dress...

[mo.st.dukie]

I wish Mason would embrace his inner Rodman. With his size and athleticism Mason could be a dominate defender and rebounder.

Miles can be a dominant defender and rebounder too. He has just as much size and athleticism as Mason, he's actually much stronger and more physical than Mason. Miles was better in that one game. He showed some good moves in the paint with good footwork, and was just so much more aggressive than Mason. If that continues I don't see any reason why Mason would start over Miles. I think Mason has just been so hyped up, even since is junior year of high school, and Miles has been more in the background that people expect Mason to be better because that's what we've all been told for a good 3 or 4 years now. Hopefully they can both play to their potential on a consistent basis. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Miles was the starter for the rest of the year. He's athletic, strong, willing to mix it up in the paint, and has a better offensive game than Mason at this point (although he's not a great offensive player).

[NSDukeFan]

Miles can be a dominant defender and rebounder too. He has just as much size and athleticism as Mason, he's actually much stronger and more physical than Mason. Miles was better in that one game. He showed some good moves in the paint with good footwork, and was just so much more aggressive than Mason. If that continues I don't see any reason why Mason would start over Miles. I think Mason has just been so hyped up, even since is junior year of high school, and Miles has been more in the background that people expect Mason to be better because that's what we've all been told for a good 3 or 4 years now. Hopefully they can both play to their potential on a consistent basis. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Miles was the starter for the rest of the year. He's athletic, strong, willing to mix it up in the paint, and has a better offensive game than Mason at this point (although he's not a great offensive player).

Yes, Mason has been the more hyped of the brothers. The other interesting thing is that over a full season last year, Mason was also the much more productive player. I am a big fan of Miles and am hoping he has a great senior season that includes some starts. But, I am not yet ready to concede Mason's place in the regular starting line-up or his position as a member of an all-ACC team based on a couple of games half-way around the world with different rules, a different ball, very different refs, in August.

[mo.st.dukie]

Yes, Mason has been the more hyped of the brothers. The other interesting thing is that over a full season last year, Mason was also the much more productive player. I am a big fan of Miles and am hoping he has a great senior season that includes some starts. But, I am not yet ready to concede Mason's place in the regular starting line-up or his position as a member of an all-ACC team based on a couple of games half-way around the world with different rules, a different ball, very different refs, in August.

Yep, Mason was much more productive last season and he just may be more productive this season. And like I said, I REALLY want them BOTH to be highly productive. Mason put up Shelden type of rebounding numbers last year and hopefully he can do the same this year. But Miles is more physical in the paint and, to me at least, seems to have more natural basketball movements than Mason. And I've always thought Miles had a slightly better offensive game than Mason. I was just pointing out that Miles often gets overlooked. I have no idea who is going to start/get the majority of the minutes and, like I said in my original post, it was just one game and we'll see how Miles does as time goes. I will admit, though, that I am partial to the more physical style of play Miles brings to the table, a perfect complement to the beautiful finesse game of Ryan Kelly.

[Teton Jack]

Kelly reminds me of Bobby Jones (UNC in the 1970's), not physically but in how he plays. My high school team played South Mecklenburg, Bobby Jones high school, at least twice a year and when he was at UNC there were always 2-3 games vs. Duke. He looked so frail and unathletic, making you think you could push him around but he just played the game very intelligently and always found a way to win - the scrappy tip in, the short range jumper, the unexpected block or rebound. Teams need players like Kelly and Jones to go deep in the NCAA - players who understand the game and can make up for their limitations with their basketball IQ.

TJ

[UrinalCake]

We often think of the Plumlees as being interchangable on the court, but IMO Miles is more of a true center while Mason plays better as a 4. Since Kelly is definitely a 4, it kind of makes sense that Miles would start alongside him. Nevertheless, as many have said it's still really early and a lot can change. Kelly's game is really well suited to the international style of play, and hopefully that will translate back home but we'll have to see. Last year Mason started out great and then sort of tapered off once Kyrie went down. I imagine there will be a lot of shuffling within the starting lineup throughout the year, and hopefully it will take shape by the midpoint of the ACC season.

I also think that the two Plumlees play really well when they're on the floor together. They seem to find each other and to cover for each other defensively. The only way I could really see this happening would be for them to both start, or for Kelly to start with Hairston or MP3 (not likely).

[DukeGirl4ever]

Like many others have said, Ryan Kelly has been most impressive in the two games that I've watched. He doesn't force things, he lets the game come to him, and he just surprises people with his basketball IQ, because quite frankly, he doesn't look like a ball player. We've had a couple of guys that have played for us in the past that come to mind (Jon Scheyer as of late) and I think we will see Kelly become a leader of this team.

I hope the Zoubeard stays...it's got attitude!

[ScreechTDX1847]

He looked great today too. He is moving much better with and without the ball.