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  1. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    well, there are out of court settlements...there are also all the other schools who changed conferences recently who snuck out with less than the stated exit fee. either way, the ACC situation may play out differently...who knows?
    But why would the ACC settle out of court. With the Big 12, there were questions about how strict the Big 12 bylaws actually were so they might not have wanted to go to court. I doubt that will be the same in the ACC where the ACC counsel has had months to prepare for this and have been a bit more adamant about exit fees. Additionally, while Mizzou and A&M didn't have the worst damages they could have had, they still gave up some TV money as well. I just don't see what Maryland can actually bargain with.

    Perhaps a lawyer mind could shed some light but apart from legal fees, what could the ACC possibly lose. They'd still get money from Maryland, just a matter of how much. And for the lawyers out there, would the judge hold Maryland liable to pay what he sees fit or would he just pick one side and use their solution.

  2. #2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Class of '94 View Post
    Apparently, Gary Williams supports the move; and has the audacity to use the "MD was never important to the ACC" as justification for leaving just because DC only had the tournament once. I wonder how many times DC will host the BIG 10 tournament? Here is the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ve-to-big-ten/ .

    I get the money grab...Just say it; but don't try to hide it with BS; the veilled reference of the ACC being NC centric has worn thin with me.....Academically, the BIG 10 will be just as good a fit as the ACC; but there is no way their sports teams gain more exposure in the BIG 10 when the BIG 10 doesn't play as a conference in many of their sports. If MD leaves, I'm now on the side of "See ya...". I hope MD stays but if they don't, God bless them but I hope no ACC school plays them in any sport (unless it's for a National Championship) once they are members of the BIG 10.

    That said, I'm sure teams remaining in the Big East have felt the same way about schools that defected to the ACC. And the way MD and the BIG 10 kept this quiet from other members of the ACC is eerily similar to how it went down with Pitt and Syracuse talking with the ACC about joining the conference. I guess there are many that will say, "you reap what you sow". Regardless, if the ACC makes the right choice in the selection of MD's replacement, the ACC could be even better and stronger than what it would've been with MD.
    If you think that Terp fans have an inferiority complex in the ACC, and whining about its NC-centric views, just wait to they get into the Big10 and start hearing the views of a league headquartered 700mi away (!!), vs the current 250mi.!!! How will that inferiority complex look the first time they play OSU or Mich and come away losing by 50?? They WILL regret this move, if it does go down, and it won't be a short-term fight.

    I've heard this assertion from MD fans supporting the move too, that the Big10 is just as good or better than the ACC academically. So I went to the US News rankings of National Universities to actually use facts in this discussion. The answer is that the two leagues aren't even close - though I suppose you could argue that MD, being in the lower half of the ACC academically, might fit right into the middle of the Big10...

    US News Rankings of Natl universities:
    (am including the incoming members for comparison purposes)
    ACC School - Natl Rank Big10 School - Natl Rank
    Duke-8....................... ......NW-12
    Notre Dame-17...................... Mich-29
    UVA-24 ........................ ....Wisc-41
    Wake-27...................... .....PSU-46
    NC at ch-30...................... ...IL-46
    BC-31...................... .......OSU-56
    Ga Tech-36 ........................ ...Purdue-65
    Syr-58...................... ......Minn-68
    MD-58 (have seen MD as low as 100 elsewhere)...MSU-72
    Pitt-58 ........................ ......Iowa-72
    Clemson-68...................... ....IN-83
    VPI-72...................... ......Neb.-101
    FSU-97
    NCSU-106

    Just no way to look at those figures and conclude that the Big10 is as good or better than the ACC.

    But I think the real crux of this decision is contrasting a short-term money grab -$7-$10M more per year in revenue - with a serious amount of harm to their fanbase and alumni support. I just don't see them competing well in Big10 FB for a looooong time. And how many years of 2-10 type records, with numerous 30+ point blowouts at the hands of Neb., OSU, PSU, Mich, MSU, and Wisc., will the fans put up with. After a year or two of "novelty" I'd predict drops in FB attendance in College Park, and the corresponding merchandising purchases and TV ratings, etc. As alums, how do you get engaged with rivals generally in a different time zone and over 8 hours away by car?? And BTW, for those Big10 championships and BB tournaments in Chicago, it is about 420 miles and 7+ hours... how many Terp fans (who heavily settle on the Mid-Atlantic seaboard) will make that effort?

    BTW, Gary Williams coached at OSU prior to MD, so I'm not shocked to hear him support such a move. But I think you'll hear other prominent Terps arguing against it, beyond just the Len Elmore types.

    Last edited by -bdbd; 11-19-2012 at 02:40 AM.

  3. #2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by sporthenry View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure UMD could go after the whole changing rivals, bringing in Pitt/Cuse, and raising the exit fee against their wishes but not sure they'll win. Someone mentioned that nobody ever paid the full exit fee but WVU did pay a hefty sum although they said it was to leave early. Mizzou and A&M lucked out but no indication the ACC would be as nice and many were perplexed the B12 was so nice. Perhaps they'll settle out of court but that would also set a precedent for a team like FSU to get out with similar fees so they might want to go for the full 50 and just stick it to Maryland as one last "Thank You."
    It would likely get settled out of court. If it went to court, the ACC and Maryland would likely spend millions on lawyers, and from the ACC's perspective, there is a chance they could lose anyway...and then they're out the cost of the lawyers PLUS the cost of the decreased exit fee...and even if they win, they're still out the cost of the lawsuit....better to just agree out of court to have a lower fee, and save both the league and the school the cost and hulabaloo of going to court.
    oof

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  4. #2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    Just no way to look at those figures and conclude that the Big10 is as good or better than the ACC.
    Well, not that your conclusion is wrong, but for academic purposes, the University of chicago is also a member of the big 10. Seeing as its one of the top schools in the country, I think that might change your chart somewhat.
    oof

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  5. #2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    If you think that Terp fans have an inferiority complex in the ACC, and whining about its NC-centric views, just wait to they get into the Big10 and start hearing the views of a league headquartered 700mi away (!!), vs the current 250mi.!!! How will that inferiority complex look the first time they play OSU or Mich and come away losing by 50?? They WILL regret this move, if it does go down, and it won't be a short-term fight.

    I've heard this assertion from MD fans supporting the move too, that the Big10 is just as good or better than the ACC academically. So I went to the US News rankings of National Universities to actually use facts in this discussion. The answer is that the two leagues aren't even close - though I suppose you could argue that MD, being in the lower half of the ACC academically, might fit right into the middle of the Big10...

    US News Rankings of Natl universities:
    (am including the incoming members for comparison purposes)
    ACC School - Natl Rank Big10 School - Natl Rank
    Duke-8....................... ......NW-12
    Notre Dame-17...................... Mich-29
    UVA-24 ........................ ....Wisc-41
    Wake-27...................... .....PSU-46
    NC at ch-30...................... ...IL-46
    BC-31...................... .......OSU-56
    Ga Tech-36 ........................ ...Purdue-65
    Syr-58...................... ......Minn-68
    MD-58 (have seen MD as low as 100 elsewhere)...MSU-72
    Pitt-58 ........................ ......Iowa-72
    Clemson-68...................... ....IN-83
    VPI-72...................... ......Neb.-101
    FSU-97
    NCSU-106

    Just no way to look at those figures and conclude that the Big10 is as good or better than the ACC.

    But I think the real crux of this decision is contrasting a short-term money grab -$7-$10M more per year in revenue - with a serious amount of harm to their fanbase and alumni support. I just don't see them competing well in Big10 FB for a looooong time. And how many years of 2-10 type records, with numerous 30+ point blowouts at the hands of Neb., OSU, PSU, Mich, MSU, and Wisc., will the fans put up with. After a year or two of "novelty" I'd predict drops in FB attendance in College Park, and the corresponding merchandising purchases and TV ratings, etc. As alums, how do you get engaged with rivals generally in a different time zone and over 8 hours away by car?? And BTW, for those Big10 championships and BB tournaments in Chicago, it is about 420 miles and 7+ hours... how many Terp fans (who heavily settle on the Mid-Atlantic seaboard) will make that effort?

    BTW, Gary Williams coached at OSU prior to MD, so I'm not shocked to hear him support such a move. But I think you'll hear other prominent Terps arguing against it, beyond just the Len Elmore types.

    You forgot Miami: T-44.
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  6. #2006
    Quote Originally Posted by senkiri View Post
    Never liked Maryland or their fans much, but they were sort-of the cousin you hate but love at the same time because they are family. They are (?were) a good fit with the ACC -- academically, geographically and non-revenue sports wise as well. Really disappointed to see a charter member of the ACC leave -- and more importantly, really worried about what this does to half-hearted members of the league like Georgia Tech and Florida State.
    Yea I'm sorry to see them go. Never cared for their fans in general though one of my best buds is a UMd grad and fan. It sucks to lose a charter member of the league, though. I think we as Duke fans protest a bit too much on the "not our rivals" thing - certainly UMd is not our rival in the sense that UNC or even NCSU is, but we've been playing them year-in year-out for 50 years and we've had some great games. It will be sad to see that go. Even if UMd is replaced by a comparable or even better school, the history won't be there.

    And yeah, it definitely sets a bad precedent and potentially paves the way for future defections. There's part of me that doesn't think it'd be the worst thing if the ACC went back to 8-9 members, but clearly in the current media landscape there are big problems with that.

    Also I don't think the ACC can, with a straight face, get all indignant with the Big 10 and refuse to do the challenge anymore, while poaching teams from the Big East right and left. I wouldn't expect many ACC schools to schedule UMd voluntarily for the near future, but I don't see much point in going scorched earth.

  7. #2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Well, not that your conclusion is wrong, but for academic purposes, the University of chicago is also a member of the big 10. Seeing as its one of the top schools in the country, I think that might change your chart somewhat.
    Chicago is Midwestern, but the football team peaked quite a while ago...

  8. #2008
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    What are the odds that their first ACC/Big 10 challenge game they play as a Big 10 member is against Duke?
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  9. #2009
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    Lynchburg, VA
    If Maryland leaves, how loud are the "ACC" chants going to be when they play in this year's ACC tourney? Also, it's fitting that their last conference tourney will be in Greensboro.

  10. #2010
    I botched the math in an earlier post regarding the extra revenue the B1G would get by adding Rutgers and Maryland.

    Pete Thamel of SI says it would be $1.25 per month (which if forgot, d'oh) times 15M cable subscribers in DC, Philly, and NYC, which equates to $225M per year.

    Earlier I said the figure is more like 30-60 cents, which is $54-108M. Even the low number would cover the additional $25M B1G would have to pay out to Maryland and Rutgers.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ney/index.html

    Anyways, I think it's a dumb move to go to 14 by adding Maryland and especially Rutgers. I wouldn't mind though if the ACC pushed out Swofford and brought in someone with better financial sense to shore up the ACC and prevent this from happening from the future. But most important for me, I just want Duke to land safely after all this ends.

  11. #2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by mph View Post
    If Maryland leaves, how loud are the "ACC" chants going to be when they play in this year's ACC tourney? Also, it's fitting that their last conference tourney will be in Greensboro.
    More importantly, in Cameron. I hope we get a game similar to the 2009 edition in Cameron, when Duke held a 40-15 lead at halftime and Olek Czyz played a good chunk of the second half.

  12. #2012

    Wait, why are you blaming Swofford here?

    Quote Originally Posted by ns7 View Post
    I botched the math in an earlier post regarding the extra revenue the B1G would get by adding Rutgers and Maryland.

    Pete Thamel of SI says it would be $1.25 per month (which if forgot, d'oh) times 15M cable subscribers in DC, Philly, and NYC, which equates to $225M per year.

    Earlier I said the figure is more like 30-60 cents, which is $54-108M. Even the low number would cover the additional $25M B1G would have to pay out to Maryland and Rutgers.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ney/index.html

    Anyways, I think it's a dumb move to go to 14 by adding Maryland and especially Rutgers. I wouldn't mind though if the ACC pushed out Swofford and brought in someone with better financial sense to shore up the ACC and prevent this from happening from the future. But most important for me, I just want Duke to land safely after all this ends.
    Swofford's done everything possible to prevent this and keep the conference together - thus the additions of ND, Cuse, and Pitt. The guy has been terrific - it was thought that either the big east or acc could be in shambles due to realignment, and he made sure it wasn't us.
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  13. #2013
    Quote Originally Posted by mph View Post
    If Maryland leaves, how loud are the "ACC" chants going to be when they play in this year's ACC tourney? Also, it's fitting that their last conference tourney will be in Greensboro.
    Not that loud because hardly anyone is there on Thursday when Maryland plays in the 8 vs. 9 game.

  14. #2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    I wouldn't expect many ACC schools to schedule UMd voluntarily for the near future, but I don't see much point in going scorched earth.
    Certainly we will want to schedule MD since its a big rivalry game.

  15. #2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77devil View Post
    Certainly we will want to schedule MD since its a big rivalry game.

    Perfect!

  16. #2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    Chicago is Midwestern, but the football team peaked quite a while ago...
    "Big Ten institutions are also, along with charter member the University of Chicago, part of the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC), which shares a $5.6 billion research fund." -wikipedia

    not that wikipedia is a wholly reliable source, but while chicago has no sports, they are every bit a part of the big 10's academic scene.
    oof

    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

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