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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Some Crystal Ball movement on Harper now, with some saying Rutgers is in the pole position.
    That's kinda been the rumor for a little bit... though most seem to think Harper isn't all that close to making a decision.
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  2. #382
    Most feel that his mother would like him to stay close to home in NJ (I think she's an RU grad too) but his father would like to see him at Duke.

  3. #383
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    Seems to be some chatter (Andrew Slater and On3 both reporting) that Duke is trying to get involved with the top C in the 2024 class, Flory Bidunga. He has already taken visits to Auburn, Florida, Kansas and Michigan. He is from Indiana and Mike Woodson has been working this one HARD! Kentucky has also been on him for a while and is considered one of the front-runners. But, he supposedly wanted Duke to notice him and they now have. Bidunga was just voted co-Most Outstanding Player at the Pangos All-American Camp with 13.8 points and 10.5 rebounds per game. He shot an otherworldly 83.9% from the field with his remarkable soft touch inside.

    For some reason, he keeps on mentioning about academics when he talks about the school he wants to attend. He also says stuff like, "I want to go somewhere where I can be a student athlete, get my degree, and go to a place that feels like home.” Ummmm, is he not aware that he is a top 5 recruit and likely to be a lottery pick after playing 1 year of college ball?



    -Jason "Bidunga is an Adidas guy, as evidenced by him attending the Pangos camp versus playing on the EYBL... I wonder if that could have an impact on his recruiting. Kansas and Indiana are two of the top Adidas schools" Evans
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  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Seems to be some chatter (Andrew Slater and On3 both reporting) that Duke is trying to get involved with the top C in the 2024 class, Flory Bidunga.
    I wonder if the Bidunga pursuit is a way of maybe putting pressure on NGongba to commit soon after his visit this coming weekend.
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  5. #385
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    Can’t wait until he throws down in Cameron and we get to see a Bidunga dunk.

  6. #386
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    Dur'm
    Bidunga is a lefty. Aren't we therefore required to be interested?

  7. #387
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I wonder if the Bidunga pursuit is a way of maybe putting pressure on NGongba to commit soon after his visit this coming weekend.
    Really hope not. That seems unethical.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Really hope not. That seems unethical.
    I don't see that at all. It's a legitimate way to measure a recruit's interest. They are doing the same thing with their visits.

  9. #389
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    i agree that i don't see the ethics issue. I also recall that it was reported that from the high school class of 1991, K recruited Cherokee Parks, Eric Meek, Alan Henderson and Chris Webber and told them that the first two to commit would have the available scholarships. Whether this is precisely true, I don't know, but i don't recall any criticism that this recruiting technique was unethical

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Really hope not. That seems unethical.
    Huh? Are you new to recruiting? This has been done for decades. "We really want you to be on our team, but we have also made an offer to xxx and we can't take both of you. We will have to take whoever commits first. I really hope it is you."

    Ask Bobby Hurley and Kenny Anderson how unethical that is.
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  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Huh? Are you new to recruiting? This has been done for decades. "We really want you to be on our team, but we have also made an offer to xxx and we can't take both of you. We will have to take whoever commits first. I really hope it is you."

    Ask Bobby Hurley and Kenny Anderson how unethical that is.
    I had a high school classmate that was used that way in the recruitment for Jay Williams William Avery. I'd say that rather than ask Kenny Anderson or Bobby Hurley, you should as Scott Lilly.

    (Who?) Exactly.

    I agree it isn't "unethical" and is probably done far and wide for generations of recruiting. But it is kinda crappy for the other end of the stick.
    Last edited by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15; 06-07-2023 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Sorry, wrong year

  12. #392
    The interest in Bidunga is a little surprising and also not surprising.

    The surprising part is timing. Patrick Ngongba is visiting this weekend and just received an offer. I agree with Jason that the interest in Bidunga might be driven by having a backup plan in place. While Duke is very, very selective about who receives offers, you don't want to have all your eggs in one basket. It seems like they like Ngongba and things are progressing quickly there. While Bidunga has been considered the premier big man in the Class of 2024 for some time, the coaching staff might have noticed a sudden improvement from Ngongba that makes him their preferred target. Between the two, only one has an offer for the time being. We shall see where things go from here.

    The not surprising part also has to do with timing. From all indications. the coaching staff was very interested in Ernest Udeh. That ship has sailed, so it makes all the sense in the world that they would turn their attention to the rising class of high school seniors. The transfer portal has some issues. The coaching staff clearly prefers to recruit from high school over relying on the portal and then hoping the admissions office plays along. You also never know who will be in the portal in the future. In many ways, the high school recruiting pool is a much more certain place to swim. Bidunga and Ngongba getting attention might be the coaching staff realizing that the Udeh situation should be avoided in the future.

  13. #393
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    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    The interest in Bidunga is a little surprising and also not surprising.

    The surprising part is timing. Patrick Ngongba is visiting this weekend and just received an offer. I agree with Jason that the interest in Bidunga might be driven by having a backup plan in place. While Duke is very, very selective about who receives offers, you don't want to have all your eggs in one basket. It seems like they like Ngongba and things are progressing quickly there. While Bidunga has been considered the premier big man in the Class of 2024 for some time, the coaching staff might have noticed a sudden improvement from Ngongba that makes him their preferred target. Between the two, only one has an offer for the time being. We shall see where things go from here.

    The not surprising part also has to do with timing. From all indications. the coaching staff was very interested in Ernest Udeh. That ship has sailed, so it makes all the sense in the world that they would turn their attention to the rising class of high school seniors. The transfer portal has some issues. The coaching staff clearly prefers to recruit from high school over relying on the portal and then hoping the admissions office plays along. You also never know who will be in the portal in the future. In many ways, the high school recruiting pool is a much more certain place to swim. Bidunga and Ngongba getting attention might be the coaching staff realizing that the Udeh situation should be avoided in the future.
    I have yet to do a detailed scout on Ngongba (but I'm sure I will for the front page, especially if the mutual interest continues to accelerate), but I get the feeling that he might fit Scheyer's new outlook, particularly on bigs, as opposed to Bidunga. With the exception of Lively, who was obviously a very special case, Jon has seemed to target multi-year bigs (even Kyle fits into this category to some degree). Sean Stewart is a multi-year guy who can play either the 4 or a more "modern" college 5 (I think he could project as a better version of Miami's Norchad Omier, and we know how successful he and his team have been). Christian Reeves has size you can't teach but obviously needed/needs time to adjust to the college game. Heck, even JP Estrella, our main "5" recruiting target in the 2024 class before things suddenly cooled (likely as the staff realized a combo of Flip/Young/Reeves would be around to man the 5 this season, which ended up being quite prescient!) is a talented kid who likely will be in college multiple years, despite his 4/5* status, given how his game would translate at the NBA level; Udeh similarly likely would've been around for a couple years.

    The timelines would also line up well. Ngongba would arrive on campus with a junior Reeves and sophomore Stewart, assuming Scheyer continues to work his continuity magic. He'd have the opportunity to compete for immediate minutes with those guys if he blossoms, but otherwise would be able to develop before his contribution becomes a necessity.

    I think the most straightforward way for a team to get "old" and maintain continuity in the modern landscape is with bigs, considering the devaluation of the position at the NBA level. You can get really, really good college players at the 5 to stick around a long time and be confident that they'll do so. There's a pattern here that indicates to me Scheyer wants to target 4*, high upside, multi-year bigs with the exception of outlier talents like Lively.

    Also, I don't think it's such a bad decision to target the friends of our top recruits... that certainly helps with retention. Reeves and Foster are buddies, and it sounds like Ngongba and Darren Harris are as well.
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  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post

    For some reason, he keeps on mentioning about academics when he talks about the school he wants to attend. He also says stuff like, "I want to go somewhere where I can be a student athlete, get my degree, and go to a place that feels like home.” Ummmm, is he not aware that he is a top 5 recruit and likely to be a lottery pick after playing 1 year of college ball?
    This guy sounds like a lock for Colgate.
    "I don't like them when they are eating my azaleas or rhododendrons or pansies." - Coach K

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    I have yet to do a detailed scout on Ngongba (but I'm sure I will for the front page, especially if the mutual interest continues to accelerate), but I get the feeling that he might fit Scheyer's new outlook, particularly on bigs, as opposed to Bidunga. With the exception of Lively, who was obviously a very special case, Jon has seemed to target multi-year bigs (even Kyle fits into this category to some degree). Sean Stewart is a multi-year guy who can play either the 4 or a more "modern" college 5 (I think he could project as a better version of Miami's Norchad Omier, and we know how successful he and his team have been). Christian Reeves has size you can't teach but obviously needed/needs time to adjust to the college game. Heck, even JP Estrella, our main "5" recruiting target in the 2024 class before things suddenly cooled (likely as the staff realized a combo of Flip/Young/Reeves would be around to man the 5 this season, which ended up being quite prescient!) is a talented kid who likely will be in college multiple years, despite his 4/5* status, given how his game would translate at the NBA level; Udeh similarly likely would've been around for a couple years.

    The timelines would also line up well. Ngongba would arrive on campus with a junior Reeves and sophomore Stewart, assuming Scheyer continues to work his continuity magic. He'd have the opportunity to compete for immediate minutes with those guys if he blossoms, but otherwise would be able to develop before his contribution becomes a necessity.

    I think the most straightforward way for a team to get "old" and maintain continuity in the modern landscape is with bigs, considering the devaluation of the position at the NBA level. You can get really, really good college players at the 5 to stick around a long time and be confident that they'll do so. There's a pattern here that indicates to me Scheyer wants to target 4*, high upside, multi-year bigs with the exception of outlier talents like Lively.

    Also, I don't think it's such a bad decision to target the friends of our top recruits... that certainly helps with retention. Reeves and Foster are buddies, and it sounds like Ngongba and Darren Harris are as well.
    The quality of the talent in each recruiting class is also a factor. There isn't a guy in the Class of 2024 (at the moment) that is generating buzz that he is a surefire lottery pick. Those players are in the Classes of 2025 (Cameron Boozer, Flagg, et al) and 2026 (Dybantsa).

    My best guess is that there will be some years where the coaching staff goes all-in on 1-2 can't-miss prospects because, well, they are that special. Besides those guys, it will be 3-4 high 4*/low-mid 5* prospects forming the bulk of most recruiting classes.

  16. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    The transfer portal has some issues. The coaching staff clearly prefers to recruit from high school over relying on the portal and then hoping the admissions office plays along. You also never know who will be in the portal in the future. In many ways, the high school recruiting pool is a much more certain place to swim. Bidunga and Ngongba getting attention might be the coaching staff realizing that the Udeh situation should be avoided in the future.
    It is worth noting that, by necessity, things generally move muuuch faster in the portal than in high school. Scheyer has a chance to get to know kids over many, many months -- if not years -- when dealing with high school recruits. Portal players are often only weeks, or even days, from courtship to marriage. Now, it is advantageous that a portal player has played against college competition, making his skills and ability to contribute better known, but it is a lot harder to really get the personality and fit with the Duke culture. Plus, as many have noted, the whole grades thing is a heck of a lot easier coming from high school than another university.

    I should also mention that the bonus Covid year will become a thing of the past for the vast majority of college players after next summer. I suspect you will see the portal ease at least a little bit when that happens, though there will still be redshirt or early graduation players who will be free to portal to a new home without worrying about transfer credits.
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  17. #397
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    Well

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Huh? Are you new to recruiting? This has been done for decades. "We really want you to be on our team, but we have also made an offer to xxx and we can't take both of you. We will have to take whoever commits first. I really hope it is you."

    Ask Bobby Hurley and Kenny Anderson how unethical that is.
    Lots of commonly done things are unethical. Obviously, several of you disagree with me on the ethics. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    Putting aside ethics, it seems to me that Jon Scheyer tries to establish a real relationship with his recruits. This tactic wouldn't do that.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by gam7 View Post
    This guy sounds like a lock for Colgate.
    Great reference likely lost on younger readers. This made me curious to see what Adonal Foyle did post basketball. He's an impressive individual who would have been a great representative for the university and basketball program.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adonal_Foyle

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Meany View Post
    Great reference likely lost on younger readers. This made me curious to see what Adonal Foyle did post basketball. He's an impressive individual who would have been a great representative for the university and basketball program.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adonal_Foyle
    Old timer here. I remember the recruitment of Adonal Foyle but lost track of him after he chose Colgate instead.

    Thanks for posting the Wikepedia summary on him. He seems to be a very impressive guy.

  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Lots of commonly done things are unethical. Obviously, several of you disagree with me on the ethics. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    Putting aside ethics, it seems to me that Jon Scheyer tries to establish a real relationship with his recruits. This tactic wouldn't do that.
    Not an issue with me: a coach has given out 12 scholarships and has three good prospects for the 13th. "You can have a scholarship here, but you need to decide now. It may not be available tomorrow, or next week. I am telling two other players the same thing."

    It happens in every occupation, and in academic scholarships as well -- "You need to decide today on your AB Duke scholarship, or it goes to a very happy alternate."

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