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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Lots of commonly done things are unethical. Obviously, several of you disagree with me on the ethics. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    Putting aside ethics, it seems to me that Jon Scheyer tries to establish a real relationship with his recruits. This tactic wouldn't do that.
    You might be taking this report of recruiting Bidunga a little too far. Recruiting encompasses a lot of activities.

    How much are they pursuing him? Are they just starting to scout him? Are they working on setting up an offer? Are they talking about scheduling a visit? This could be nothing more than showing up at his games, maybe having a couple talks with him and his coaches and family to just feel him out. If that is the case, it is no more than due diligence. You don't want to have your entire recruiting strategy based around one player at a position. The Ngongba recruitment might go south, so having another option lined up where the coaching staff can quickly ramp up interest would be a smart move. Duke did that with Cassius Stanley once Boogie Ellis decommitted. I don't think there is anything unethical around scouting a player if that is what is happening. Now, if they are having advanced talks, making promises, pitting two players together, well maybe that is a little less scrupulous. I'm sure that happens but it doesn't seem to be the way Duke goes about its business.

  2. #402
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    Washington, D.C.

    Just to be clear

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    You might be taking this report of recruiting Bidunga a little too far. Recruiting encompasses a lot of activities.

    How much are they pursuing him? Are they just starting to scout him? Are they working on setting up an offer? Are they talking about scheduling a visit? This could be nothing more than showing up at his games, maybe having a couple talks with him and his coaches and family to just feel him out. If that is the case, it is no more than due diligence. You don't want to have your entire recruiting strategy based around one player at a position. The Ngongba recruitment might go south, so having another option lined up where the coaching staff can quickly ramp up interest would be a smart move. Duke did that with Cassius Stanley once Boogie Ellis decommitted. I don't think there is anything unethical around scouting a player if that is what is happening. Now, if they are having advanced talks, making promises, pitting two players together, well maybe that is a little less scrupulous. I'm sure that happens but it doesn't seem to be the way Duke goes about its business.
    What Jason Evans suggested was "I wonder if the Bidunga pursuit is a way of maybe putting pressure on NGongba to commit soon after his visit this coming weekend."

    I have no problem with Duke going after two bigs and being upfront about it with the recruits. I don't expect Duke to wait on a player indefinitely or even at all. But Jason suggested Duke was going after recruit #2 to put pressure on recruit #1 to decide soon after his visit to Duke. If a coach did that to my child, I'd suggest to the kid that maybe Duke wasn't the school he or she should attend.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    -Jason "Bidunga is an Adidas guy, as evidenced by him attending the Pangos camp versus playing on the EYBL... I wonder if that could have an impact on his recruiting. Kansas and Indiana are two of the top Adidas schools" Evans
    I wouldn't assume anything like that. Tons of "Adidas guys" have attended Pangos camps and other events over the years, and have ended up at Nike schools. Including some Duke players. This will only increase as Dinos and Pangos continue to expand their footprint.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    What Jason Evans suggested was "I wonder if the Bidunga pursuit is a way of maybe putting pressure on NGongba to commit soon after his visit this coming weekend."

    I have no problem with Duke going after two bigs and being upfront about it with the recruits. I don't expect Duke to wait on a player indefinitely or even at all. But Jason suggested Duke was going after recruit #2 to put pressure on recruit #1 to decide soon after his visit to Duke. If a coach did that to my child, I'd suggest to the kid that maybe Duke wasn't the school he or she should attend.
    I didn't follow the flow of the conversation well enough. However, I still think you are taking this particular scenario a little too far. It's not like the coaching staff is putting on a hard sell here. Bidunga hasn't been offered, hasn't been scheduled for an official visit. It's just out there that there are other options. There's nothing wrong with a little sense of urgency, you know?

    Most teams are offering a lot of players. Duke is very, very selective in their pursuits. If you look at the offer list for Kansas, for example, they gave out 68 offers for the Class of 2023 alone. Duke made 11 offers in the class (and ended up with a higher-rated class). That's not to say Duke's approach is better than Kansas, it's just different. Both teams are highly successful. It just shows that most programs have active competition for the roster spots and that's ok. Both the players and the teams are seeking a match. It's not like the teams have all the cards here. The players are often sifting through dozens of offers when you are talking about the elite prospects. How you get to the commitment can look a little different for each player and for each team.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I wonder if the Bidunga pursuit is a way of maybe putting pressure on NGongba to commit soon after his visit this coming weekend.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMmrNtibsXY

  6. #406
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.

    Jason

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I didn't follow the flow of the conversation well enough. However, I still think you are taking this particular scenario a little too far. It's not like the coaching staff is putting on a hard sell here. Bidunga hasn't been offered, hasn't been scheduled for an official visit. It's just out there that there are other options. There's nothing wrong with a little sense of urgency, you know?

    Most teams are offering a lot of players. Duke is very, very selective in their pursuits. If you look at the offer list for Kansas, for example, they gave out 68 offers for the Class of 2023 alone. Duke made 11 offers in the class (and ended up with a higher-rated class). That's not to say Duke's approach is better than Kansas, it's just different. Both teams are highly successful. It just shows that most programs have active competition for the roster spots and that's ok. Both the players and the teams are seeking a match. It's not like the teams have all the cards here. The players are often sifting through dozens of offers when you are talking about the elite prospects. How you get to the commitment can look a little different for each player and for each team.
    I’m not taking it too far. Jason’s statement is quite clear and it is what concerns me. But that’s all I’m going to say on this topic. As I said before, we can agree to disagree.

  7. #407
    The fact that one has been offered and will be on campus for a visit soon and one has not been offered tells you where Duke's priorities are as far as these two players are concerned.

  8. #408
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    I’m not taking it too far. Jason’s statement is quite clear and it is what concerns me. But that’s all I’m going to say on this topic. As I said before, we can agree to disagree.
    To be clear, I have zero inside info on this one but it would not be unethical or surprising if Duke were to evaluate multiple guys at the same position and to inform them that there may not be room for both of them on the roster. I know for a fact that kind of thing is done all the time at the college level and elite high school kids are not surprised when it happens. We have unquestioningly blown this up into much more than it needs to be.

    I do want to fall on the sword and add one more thing. As I look back on my hastily scribbled comment, it appear that my poor phrasing made it appear I was implying that Duke was only interested in Bidunga as a way of enticing Ngongba to commit. I really doubt that is the case. Duke does not operate in a nefarious way like that and Bidunga is an extremely highly regarded recruit, so why wouldn't any school's interest in him be genuine? What I meant was that the fact that Duke is looking at multiple bigs in the 2024 class could entice Ngongba to jump on a scholarship offer if he really enjoys the visit this weekend. I don't mean that Duke is pulling some sly game on him or anyone else, merely that the noted interest in multiple guys can be an incentive for one to make their choice a bit quicker.

    Sorry if my post made it seem otherwise.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    To be clear, I have zero inside info on this one but it would not be unethical or surprising if Duke were to evaluate multiple guys at the same position and to inform them that there may not be room for both of them on the roster. I know for a fact that kind of thing is done all the time at the college level and elite high school kids are not surprised when it happens. We have unquestioningly blown this up into much more than it needs to be.

    I do want to fall on the sword and add one more thing. As I look back on my hastily scribbled comment, it appear that my poor phrasing made it appear I was implying that Duke was only interested in Bidunga as a way of enticing Ngongba to commit. I really doubt that is the case. Duke does not operate in a nefarious way like that and Bidunga is an extremely highly regarded recruit, so why wouldn't any school's interest in him be genuine? What I meant was that the fact that Duke is looking at multiple bigs in the 2024 class could entice Ngongba to jump on a scholarship offer if he really enjoys the visit this weekend. I don't mean that Duke is pulling some sly game on him or anyone else, merely that the noted interest in multiple guys can be an incentive for one to make their choice a bit quicker.

    Sorry if my post made it seem otherwise.
    Thanks for the clarification. I didn't read it that way but can see how MC might have.

    Quick question - how likely is it that CF reclasses to 2024? Based on his comments, he sounds like Duke's to lose, so curious if we are building our 2024 class with a possible reclass in mind.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedevilwildcats View Post
    Quick question - how likely is it that CF reclasses to 2024? Based on his comments, he sounds like Duke's to lose, so curious if we are building our 2024 class with a possible reclass in mind.
    Again, no inside info but I would be stunned if Flagg does not reclass. If he comes to school in the 2024 class, he will be eligible for the 2025 NBA draft. If not, he must wait until 2026. What's more, in the 2025 draft he would be a strong favorite to be the #1 overall pick. In 2025, it would take a lot for him to vault past Cam Boozer into the top spot.

    So, you tell me... how many high school studs want to wait an extra year to enter the draft and endanger their chance to go #1 overall?

    I am certain Duke is aware of Flagg's birthdate and have been talking to Cooper about what he wants to do regarding reclass or staying in the 2025 class.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Again, no inside info but I would be stunned if Flagg does not reclass. If he comes to school in the 2024 class, he will be eligible for the 2025 NBA draft. If not, he must wait until 2026. What's more, in the 2025 draft he would be a strong favorite to be the #1 overall pick. In 2025, it would take a lot for him to vault past Cam Boozer into the top spot.

    So, you tell me... how many high school studs want to wait an extra year to enter the draft and endanger their chance to go #1 overall?

    I am certain Duke is aware of Flagg's birthdate and have been talking to Cooper about what he wants to do regarding reclass or staying in the 2025 class.
    Just a quick caveat to this post or a point of clarification. It is my understanding that college teams cannot make direct contact with recruits until the summer after their sophomore year of high school is complete. They can initiate contact with their families the summer after their freshman year of college. So, for example, Jon Scheyer can have a Zoom call with Momma Flagg. She can accept the call, talk to Coach Scheyer, invite Cooper to join the call, and maybe even leave the room for a bit. Coach Scheyer cannot call or text Cooper until July of this summer.

    Do I have that right?

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Just a quick caveat to this post or a point of clarification. It is my understanding that college teams cannot make direct contact with recruits until the summer after their sophomore year of high school is complete. They can initiate contact with their families the summer after their freshman year of college. So, for example, Jon Scheyer can have a Zoom call with Momma Flagg. She can accept the call, talk to Coach Scheyer, invite Cooper to join the call, and maybe even leave the room for a bit. Coach Scheyer cannot call or text Cooper until July of this summer.

    Do I have that right?
    Well... you are correct about coaches initiating contact with recruits via phone calls and visits, but that does not mean they cannot speak to the players in other ways. First of all, coaches are allowed to offer scholarships any time they want, certainly well before the summer after sophomore year. I believe they can also do the classic "bump" into a recruit at a high school game or an AAU tournament and so long as the player speaks up first, they can have a conversation. Players are allowed to take official visits during their sophomore years, I'm sure the coaches are allowed to talk to the player while he is visiting their campus. Yes, there are rules, but there are also plenty of work arounds.

    https://www.ncsasports.org/ncaa-elig...cruiting-rules

    Bottom line, whether it be through conversations with Cooper's high school or AAU coach, conversations with Cooper's parents, or conversations as they brush by each other after a game, I am pretty sure Jon Scheyer has a good idea of what Cooper is thinking when it comes to reclassification.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  13. #413
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    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by gam7 View Post
    This guy sounds like a lock for Colgate.
    Too soon. Way too soon.

  14. #414
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.

    Thanks, Jason

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    To be clear, I have zero inside info on this one but it would not be unethical or surprising if Duke were to evaluate multiple guys at the same position and to inform them that there may not be room for both of them on the roster. I know for a fact that kind of thing is done all the time at the college level and elite high school kids are not surprised when it happens. We have unquestioningly blown this up into much more than it needs to be.

    I do want to fall on the sword and add one more thing. As I look back on my hastily scribbled comment, it appear that my poor phrasing made it appear I was implying that Duke was only interested in Bidunga as a way of enticing Ngongba to commit. I really doubt that is the case. Duke does not operate in a nefarious way like that and Bidunga is an extremely highly regarded recruit, so why wouldn't any school's interest in him be genuine? What I meant was that the fact that Duke is looking at multiple bigs in the 2024 class could entice Ngongba to jump on a scholarship offer if he really enjoys the visit this weekend. I don't mean that Duke is pulling some sly game on him or anyone else, merely that the noted interest in multiple guys can be an incentive for one to make their choice a bit quicker.

    Sorry if my post made it seem otherwise.
    That clarification addresses my concern. Thank you.

  15. #415
    Any info and reports on how the Patrick N visit went?

  16. #416
    Bidunga Books a visit
    Travis Graf reports that highly-rated Flory Bidunga, a 5-star C from the Democratic Republic of Congo by way of Kokomo, Indiana, will visit Duke June 20-22.

    Quite the sudden and serious interest for one of the highest-rated recruits.

    https://twitter.com/TravisGrafHoops/...467962881?s=20

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Bidunga Books a visit
    Travis Graf reports that highly-rated Flory Bidunga, a 5-star C from the Democratic Republic of Congo by way of Kokomo, Indiana, will visit Duke June 20-22.

    Quite the sudden and serious interest for one of the highest-rated recruits.

    https://twitter.com/TravisGrafHoops/...467962881?s=20
    Look, I ain't meaning to throw cold water on anyone who has expressed excitement for Christian Reeves development this season... but the fact that Duke is clearly looking really hard at stud big men (not PFs) in the 2024 class may say something about the Duke coaches' confidence in Reeves as a significant option at the 5.

    Then again, with Young out of eligibility and Flip almost certainly moving on, there's a rationale for thinking Duke has post minutes available on the 2024-25 team regardless of whether Reeves develops or not.

    Oh, and does any of this indicate anything about what Cooper Flagg may be thinking when it comes to reclassification into the 2024 class? Cooper projects as a PF at the college level, not a 5.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Look, I ain't meaning to throw cold water on anyone who has expressed excitement for Christian Reeves development this season... but the fact that Duke is clearly looking really hard at stud big men (not PFs) in the 2024 class may say something about the Duke coaches' confidence in Reeves as a significant option at the 5.

    Then again, with Young out of eligibility and Flip almost certainly moving on, there's a rationale for thinking Duke has post minutes available on the 2024-25 team regardless of whether Reeves develops or not.

    Oh, and does any of this indicate anything about what Cooper Flagg may be thinking when it comes to reclassification into the 2024 class? Cooper projects as a PF at the college level, not a 5.
    I don't view the Ngongba and Bidunga recruitments as a slight on Reeves. As you noted, Flip and Young are almost certainly gone after this season. That would leave just Reeves and Stewart as options to play the post with Stewart being the only one that really fits as a 4 on the roster. I imagine Power could play that position as well. Still, that's not a lot of frontcourt depth, just 3 guys. They need big men.

    The other factor in my mind is that the Class of 2024 is considered very weak. Bidunga appears as one of the top 4 players in the class by ever rating service but has some obvious limitations as a prospect at the college and professional levels. The "big man" is listed at 6'8-9" and 215 lbs. He has long arms and is an explosive athlete, but he's quite short for a C. A number of players in college and the NBA have succeeded as smaller 5s in spite of their limited height. Bam Adebayo is only 6'9" and Kevon Looney is similar in height. Of course, Zion is only 6'7" and is a PF. Perhaps Bidunga, blessed with very long arms and a quick and explosive first jump, is a uniquely rare player that can thrive as a smaller big. On offense, he appears to be somewhat limited in his role and rarely dribbles or shoots away from the rim. He does have a nice little hook shot that he will flip at the rim by leaping far above opponents. With his length and jumping ability, he does well enough scoring the ball against most anyone in high school. Will that translate to higher levels of competition? From what I have seen and read, he is more of an Oscar Tshiebwe type, a player that relies on his strength and tenacity but has limitations that might keep him in college for a few years. It's entirely possible that he is such a good and versatile defender that he becomes a one-and-done anyway. Just looking at him, though, and he is not the type of player NBA teams are drafting at C in the lottery right now. And this is the consensus top C in the class and a top 4 player overall. Patrick Ngongba is a 25-50 range recruit in this class. Both could be college sophomores.

    This is all to say that I think Reeves might get a significant boost in PT as a junior even if Duke brings in Bidunga or Ngongba. You can't teach 7 feet tall.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    ... with Young out of eligibility and Flip almost certainly moving on, there's a rationale for thinking Duke has post minutes available on the 2024-25 team regardless of whether Reeves develops or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I don't view the Ngongba and Bidunga recruitments as a slight on Reeves. As you noted, Flip and Young are almost certainly gone after this season. That would leave just Reeves and Stewart as options to play the post with Stewart being the only one that really fits as a 4 on the roster. I imagine Power could play that position as well. Still, that's not a lot of frontcourt depth, just 3 guys. They need big men.
    Good posts ^ by JE and DBA.

    I’m one who’s posted several times that I was impressed with Reeves when he got a chance to play a bit. I thought, for example, his footwork on O was much better than Lively’s. Further, I was not enthusiastic about the portal chase for another 5. But Scheyer was chasing, and he knows his team.

    I hope Reeves gets more chances in ‘23-‘24, but agree with JE’s and DBA’s take on the 5 in ‘24-‘25. Stewart’s future is mostly at the 4. And Power’s, I guess, is 3/4.

  20. #420
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    I thought Reeves looked fair at best most of his minutes that I saw. He showed flashes, but I guess I just don't understand why some people think he looked great. To me he looked very unpolished.

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