No Basketball Anymore lockout: it's on!

[Matches]

You must realize the "union" doesn't exist anymore. so thus cannot represent any players, much less future players. Furthermore, there is no obligation for a player to be a member of the union (Michael jordan was never a member)

Well, it still exists unless and until it successfully decertifies. I expect the league to oppose decertification on the grounds that it's a sham - the union fully intends to re-form as soon as the current labor issues are resolved. It's a procedural move designed to get leverage by allowing the filing of anti-trust litigation.

[El_Diablo]

You must realize the "union" doesn't exist anymore. so thus cannot represent any players, much less future players. Furthermore, there is no obligation for a player to be a member of the union (Michael jordan was never a member)

The NBPA still exists. It has not disbanded, nor will it. It isn't even technically decertifying (although I've been guilty of using the term to describe what's going on). The NBPA is simply "disclaiming interest" in serving as a collective bargaining unit, which is faster than going through some drawn out decertification process as a precursor to the real fight--the antitrust issue (and whether the labor exemption still applies). Disclaiming interest allows the players to immediately file the antitrust suits, and it lets them reconstitute quickly in the event that Stern lets Hunter know that a better offer is on the table.

The NBPA is now a trade association and can assist the players in asserting legal claims on all non-labor (cough cough antitrust) issues. It can also negotiate on behalf of its members for things like IP licensing rights or special appearances.

[BigZ]

It has been a week or so sense I have heard anything about the Pro Game against UNC's Pro Players. The game was supposed to be today, is it still being played?

[ikiru36]

People seem to have a lot of conflicting feelings about Bill Simmons' and the quality of various writings on Grantland. Not sure I agree with everything he says here, but a very well written, long (as usual), and insightful piece of sports "literature" about the current standoff between the Owners and Players (and Agents...oh my).

Some Pavement lyrics come to mind:
"Pigs, they tend to wiggle when they walk
the infrastructure rots
and the owners hate the jocks
with their agents and their dates

if the signatures are checked
you'll just have to wait

and we're counting up the instants that we save
tired nation so depraved
from the cheap seats see us
wave to the camera
it took a giant ramrod
to raze the demon settlement"

[El_Diablo]

The Duke-UNC Alumni Game was postponed, but with no NBA season on the horizon, a number of current and former NBA players (including a Blue Devil) will be participating in the "Obama Classic."

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/...erobamaclassic

Quite a collection of talent already lined up there...and supposedly more to come. As the lockout continues, I assume we will see more of these types of exhibitions set up.

[UrinalCake]

As the lockout continues, I assume we will see more of these types of exhibitions set up.

Yeah, and then the question becomes, will fans eventually get tired of these meaningless exhibitions and stop buying tickets?

[JasonEvans]

Yeah, and then the question becomes, will fans eventually get tired of these meaningless exhibitions and stop buying tickets?

It does not really matter -- I don't think the players could ever stage enough exhibitions to provide a meaningful source of income to a meaningful percentage of the player's association. I mean, the NBA stages more than hundred games a month with almost all of them televised in some fashion.

Sure, the 20 or 30 best NBA stars could hold some exhibitions and make money, but what about each team's 6th, 7th, and 8th men? Heck, what about the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th men? Is anyone buying tickets to or televising the exhibition game featuring Pape Sy, Hilton Armstrong, Avery Bradley, Dante Cunningham, Dominick Brown, Alonzo Gee, Manny Harris, Ian Mahinmi, Gary Forbes, Jonas Jerebko, Terrico White, Jeff Adrien, and others?

The faces we constantly see in the negotiations, the big stars, certainly matter. But, this impasse affects scores of players getting paid the minimum or just slightly above it. These are the guys living well, but living paycheck to paycheck. They are the ones who feel the pressure to cave the most.

-Jason "of course, the guys who are affected most by the proposed salary cuts are the stars, not the guys making the minimum-- the minimum (I think) stays the same under the proposed deals" Evans

[dcdevil2009]

Jason "of course, the guys who are affected most by the proposed salary cuts are the stars, not the guys making the minimum-- the minimum (I think) stays the same under the proposed deals" Evans

I think it's actually the midlevel guys who are the most affected, not the stars. Lebron, Kobe, et al will continue to make the max, which might be slightly lower, but owners are really trying to cut down spending for mid-level guys. From a business standpoint, the owners would prefer to pay the stars more because people actually pay to see them and then have everyone else make the minimum. Obviously, that would never happen, but one of the owners' biggest problems is overpaying middle class players.

[jimsumner]

It does not really matter -- I don't think the players could ever stage enough exhibitions to provide a meaningful source of income to a meaningful percentage of the player's association. I mean, the NBA stages more than hundred games a month with almost all of them televised in some fashion.

Sure, the 20 or 30 best NBA stars could hold some exhibitions and make money, but what about each team's 6th, 7th, and 8th men? Heck, what about the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th men? Is anyone buying tickets to or televising the exhibition game featuring Pape Sy, Hilton Armstrong, Avery Bradley, Dante Cunningham, Dominick Brown, Alonzo Gee, Manny Harris, Ian Mahinmi, Gary Forbes, Jonas Jerebko, Terrico White, Jeff Adrien, and others?

The faces we constantly see in the negotiations, the big stars, certainly matter. But, this impasse affects scores of players getting paid the minimum or just slightly above it. These are the guys living well, but living paycheck to paycheck. They are the ones who feel the pressure to cave the most.

-Jason "of course, the guys who are affected most by the proposed salary cuts are the stars, not the guys making the minimum-- the minimum (I think) stays the same under the proposed deals" Evans

It's not just that. I'm not a labor lawyer but I strongly suspect that if one of these guys tears up an ankle or a knee in one of these games, they're pretty much on their own. A bit of a disincentive, IMO.

[Indoor66]

It's not just that. I'm not a labor lawyer but I strongly suspect that if one of these guys tears up an ankle or a knee in one of these games, they're pretty much on their own. A bit of a disincentive, IMO.

I'm not a labor lawyer either, but what effect would decertification have on health clauses, generally, in existing contracts?

[JasonEvans]

I'm not a labor lawyer either, but what effect would decertification have on health clauses, generally, in existing contracts?

I think that existing contracts have various clauses that prohibit certain activities. If you get hurt sky diving, for example, I think the team goes all Cee Lo Green on you and does not pay you anything. On the other hand, I doubt a basketball contract would consider playing basketball to be a dangerous activity, so I would think the contract would be honored if one of these guys got hurt in an exhibition game.

Now, the issue of how the labor impasse affects that is a tough one to figure out. Whenever a new deal is struck, if ever, the status of existing contracts will have to be addressed. It is possible the NBA would say that injuries that occurred during the lock out would allow teams to terminate contracts without any payout, but I sorta doubt they will take that path. It is bad PR and seems awfully callous.

-Jason "we've already seen some exhibitions during the lockout-- I suspect we see more" Evans