How's Zoubek doing?

[mapei]

My honest belief with regard to basketball in particular is that the number of injuries could be greatly reduced while actually enhancing the asthetics of the game. Calling our game more closely, getting rid of collapseable rims, and absolutely enforcing the rule against rim hanging, making it illegal and a technical no matter the circumstances would, I believe, all go a long way.

Instinctively I agree with the first of those, calling the game more closely, but not necessarily with having a zero-tolerance rule on rim hanging. Wouldn't that risk increasing injury, since players hang to avoid coming down awkwardly, especially on top of another player?

On collapsible rims, I'm not sure I understand. Why would getting rid of them reduce injury?

[JasonEvans]

Which? "Fifth Metatarsal" or "Zoubek"

Wait, I just got it. You were talking about the title of the entire thread -- "Zoubek & the Fifth Metatarsal"

Yeah, that is a waaay cool band name!

-Jason "hmmmm. one second... I've got an idea" Evans

[greybeard]

Instinctively I agree with the first of those, calling the game more closely, but not necessarily with having a zero-tolerance rule on rim hanging. Wouldn't that risk increasing injury, since players hang to avoid coming down awkwardly, especially on top of another player?

On collapsible rims, I'm not sure I understand. Why would getting rid of them reduce injury?

Actually, I would go for eliminating dunking entirely, me and John Wooden think alike about that. Thinking that no one would go for that, the changes would reduce dunking dramaticly. No one would thrown down without being assured of where he was going to come down. Would curtail much dangerous play as well as unnecessary wear and tear on bodies. No pull down rims, many dunks, especially by bigs off of bounds or catches would not be tried because they would be misses.

Now, I think dunks probably contribute significantly to wear and tear leading to injuries, especially over long seasons, which by the way are way too long which also contributes to injuries. I also think that dunks dumb down the game. Anybody who watched the Pearl or Pete would have to say that the game can be far more engaging, interesting and exciting than it is with dunks. Sure there are the few "highlight" dunks that bring everyone out of their seats (even me,I try but don't always make it), but imo those thrillas pale in comparison to the magic that using the board and maneuvering the ball can create. I have a feeling that creating the old kind of finishing skills would also make players smarter, cleverer, and better more interesting shooters. Would bring back the mid-range, dribble and pull up game that Internationals like Parker and Mano have but we see so few Americans use.

Hope that that helps.

[madscavenger]

Wait, I just got it. You were talking about the title of the entire thread -- "Zoubek & the Fifth Metatarsal"

Yeah, that is a waaay cool band name!

-Jason "hmmmm. one second... I've got an idea" Evans

Bingo!

Their first album could be called FRACTURED

[DevilAlumna]

Bingo!

Their first album could be called FRACTURED

Let me guess, their less-acclaimed sophomore album would be "8-10 weeks"?

[Troublemaker]

Agree with everyone else. Not devastating, but it's an injury that will be felt in terms of consequences. From reading offseason articles, the vibe I got from the players and coaches is that they expected Z to start at center this season; I think Greg even mentioned in one of the articles that he considers Z to be the key to the season. Well, I doubt Z will be a starter now. It's hard enough for a true center to thrive in Duke's system, but now the injury time off + the post-injury time required to re-condition and get re-acquainted with teammates probably means Z is going to be a bench player this season.

His teammates just need to step up to minimize any negative impact. I mean, if Lance develops and retains a consistent mid-range jumper this season, I'd be thrilled to have a starting lineup with him and Kyle as the "4" and "5" on the court, with all the matchup problems they can cause. Since Kyle is allegedly a bit of a threat on the post and not just an outside shooter, it could work.

[DukieUGA]

lots of posts indicate that "matchup problems" is kinda the buzzword. Lots of posts seem to indicate that Lance will create these magical problems for other teams as will Singler. I seem to remember Lance having problems matching up with other PFs/SFs last year, which is not to say he will have the same problems this year due to attrition (some big guys left last year) and his own development, but other players will have developed too. I'm just saying that i don't put too much stock in this matchup problems mantra b/c it swings both ways. How is LT or Singler gonna stop Hansblahblah deep in the post? Just for example. There are plenty of other talented big men in the ACC who are taller etc than either Singler or LT. If LTs game has changed somewhat from last year (ie a decent jumper and 2+ assists for the season) then maybe he will create some of these mythical MPs. I see hustle, grit and on-the-floor desire as LTs assets rather than being able to out-talent ACC PFs. Hopefully by his Jr. year LT will have a bit more polish to his game and be able to let his talent shine more (i just want to be clear, i do believe LT has got lots of talent). I have yet to see Kyle play so i'll refrain from assessing anything of his game.

[Patrick Yates]

Great post. Yes, those MP's work both ways. KS will be hard to guard, but he may have some problems with true Cs and some of the burlier PFs in the acc.

It is kind of moot though. It will depend on which team can exploit those MPs to the best of their advantage.

This is where BZ's injury is so devastating. The one thing he really lacked was touches. And say what you will, his conditioning will suffer. Lifting weights will be hard. There are only so many exercises that can be done without standing or planting weight. But it is the thousands of reps that he would surely have done in the next few months, coupled with the problems of adjusting to the injury and the limitations that it will force on him.

He can still be a huge help on D, but if his O is not better developed, his Defender will be able to slouch off onto KS, or to stop penetration.

Patrick Yates

[Bluedawg]

At least we are realllly good at treating it. Since he has already added weight to his frame, I wonder whether that will affect his rehab/recovery time. 8-10 weeks has him back on the court in September, so shouldn't affect his development too much...right???

It set Greg back quite a bit.

[greybeard]

1. Feet are integral parts to a machine, along with the ankle, that has tremendous mechanical advantage and does an incredible amount of work. The release in basketball, pronation, operates similarly; momentum is genrated by any of a number of means, beginning of course with pushing into mother earth, and those forces get multiplied by a proper release. Same with the feet only they carry the weight of our world on them, multiplied by the force being put primarily down, which are then propelled up and forward by the lever system of which the feet bones are an integral part.

2. How should the feet be aligned and weight distributed in order to create maximimum performance? I don't know.

3. When we have ankle sprains and they heal, are are foot bones and the tissue that connects them the same and does the machine of which they are a part function differently after healing occurs? Rhetorical, yes? Does it matter? How could it be otherwise? But, the body does adjust. The question is how does the adjustment add to, if at all, the likelihood of a broken foot bone, or more particularly, a fifth meta.

Now, here it gets interesting, whether you've had a prior injury or not.

First, we have to know what we are dealing with. If you have read this far, maybe I gottsya.

Sit down on a straight backed chair or a stool with your feet a part, as in an at ease stance. Let the kneesbe over the ankles. Then look down and observe, CAREFULLY.

Check out the direction of the feet. They will not be parallel that is for sure.

Check out which is tilted on the outside more than the other.

Check out how the weight is distributed on each, back/forward, left/right.

Now we are going to get more finite: the toes. Examine each in relation to the others on the same foot; then compare them to partners on the other feet. Notice spacing, shape and direction.

Now, cross leg over the ther so that the ankle sits comfortably right above or on the need. Take a hold of your big toe, using the thumb and the forefinger on either side (not top and bottom). Pull the toe so it is extended, only what is confortable. Twirl it, the toe, slowly, again only what is easy.
Place the other hand at the top of the big toe extended, up where it joins near the ankle. Keep twirling, twisting. Can you feel movement with the other hand? Be patient. Move the other hand to the point where the mid bone joins the upper bone of the foot. See the picture of Zoob's foot that was on the main page; it would be the joint on the top of the metatarsal, just above the break; all five marjor bones in the ffot have those joints. See if you feel movement. Then let your hand slide down a bit.

Do this with each of your toes and observe. There will be differences.

Gotta run now. I will be back by popular demand to tell you some more, not alot, about how to complete a tactile examination of the foot using your hands. There are movements that you can do that will provide still more valuable information, and will begin to return different organization of the bones and declinations of the foot and how it works. You gotta pay me for that. Only kidding but this gets tedious even for me.

Suffice it to say that I recently spent a weekend doing this stuff; had significant reorganization that reawakened some old injuries I thought were healed and with continued work am experiencing an entirely different foot shape and stepping motion. Interesting technology. Later

[RepoMan]

Suffice it to say that I recently spent a weekend doing this stuff; had significant reorganization that reawakened some old injuries I thought were healed and with continued work am experiencing an entirely different foot shape and stepping motion. Interesting technology. Later

Greybeard--you rock! (Though, I confess, half the time I have no idea what you are saying.)

[SilkyJ]

It set Greg back quite a bit.

True, but I was more referring to our ability to surgically repair, Greg didn't haev surgery til after the season...

You might add Nelson to the "foot injury" roster, although I think his foot was fractured, not broken or maybe it was an ankle.

Either way, it sucks for the team and Zoubek. Hopefully he can be back to good health soon.

Nelson did break or facture or whatever, but that was during a game at MSG vs Drexel, not a cause of our facilities or anything like that. There was a "scrum" going for a loose ball and someone crashed into/onto his foot.

[ACCBBallFan]

How is LT or Singler gonna stop Hansblahblah deep in the post? Just for example. There are plenty of other talented big men in the ACC who are taller etc than either Singler or LT. If LTs game has changed somewhat from last year (ie a decent jumper and 2+ assists for the season) then maybe he will create some of these mythical MPs. I see hustle, grit and on-the-floor desire as LTs assets rather than being able to out-talent ACC PFs. Hopefully by his Jr. year LT will have a bit more polish to his game and be able to let his talent shine more (i just want to be clear, i do believe LT has got lots of talent). I have yet to see Kyle play so i'll refrain from assessing anything of his game.

Other than UNC, ACC is not all that strong in taller big men, but heavier yes.

No one on UNC is over 6' 9" but Tyler is a beast and Thompson weighs 245, Alex 225, and they have a PG who can penetrate and dish.

Dickey is 6'10" and ate up Josh last year but will be without Crittenden and Young but Clinch is back. Jeremis Smith, Peacoc and Aminu are no taller than Kyle/Lance, weigh more, and are athletic, with no proven PG. They also now have Lawal.

Similarly, Costner is 6'8" and McCauley 6'9" but they weigh a lot more than Singler or Lance, but also have no proven PG with Atsur gone. That also now have JJ Hickson.

Clemson has a good duo in Mays/Booker but they are not much bigger than Kyle/Lance. They lost Vernon Hamilton but still have cliff Hammonds and KC Rivers.

BC has Blair who is 6'11" but more of a defensive presence than O, and Oates is 6'10" but roams he perimeter. PG Rice will be their go to guy.

Miami has a lot of returning beef, but McClinton may not give them the ball and Clemente transferred to K-State.

UVA has lots of bigs who are not all that good, Mikaslaukas, Sorroye, but chances are Singletary will be showing off his NBA wears.

MD lost Ibekwe and their 7 footer but still have a bulky 6' 8" Osby and an athletic 6'8" Gist plus two decent guards in Vasquez and Hayes who will be better as Sophomores, but not much else unless freshmen over achieve.

I am not familiar with this year’s in-bound frosh, but FSU, Wake and VA Tech likely play small ball too.

So I am not sure where these mythical ACC matchups materialize. Other than Tyler/Deon and McCauley/Costner assuming a PG can get them the ball and Dickey et al who also needs a PG.

Against most ACC teams it will be Singler and Lance athletically matching up with someone else who is also classified more as an athlete than as a brute.

Small ball catches up with Duke in the NCAAs, not the ACC.

----------------
Edit for ACC players not on teams from last year

Yes, Duke lost McRoberts, but look at the dominant forwards and guards other ACC teams lost and none picked up a group as strong as Singler-King-Smith:

UNC lost Wright, Terry, and Miller, gets Graves off red shirt and is still well stocked.

NC State lost Atsur; but gets Hickson

GA Tech lost Crittenden/Young; gets Lewis Clinch and Lawal

FSU lost Thornton; Jerel Allen; but gets Toney Douglas back

BC Lost Dudley/Marshall/Sean Williams;

UVA lost JR Reynolds/Cain;

Wake lost Visser/Drum;

VA Tech lost Coleman Collins, Dowdell/Gordon;

MD lost Ibekwe, Jones, Strawberry, Bowers, and seldom used Parrish Brown.

If those guys were still around, Duke's small ball would be in much more trouble than it actually will be this year without all of them.

[Troublemaker]

lots of posts indicate that "matchup problems" is kinda the buzzword. Lots of posts seem to indicate that Lance will create these magical problems for other teams as will Singler. I seem to remember Lance having problems matching up with other PFs/SFs last year, which is not to say he will have the same problems this year due to attrition (some big guys left last year) and his own development, but other players will have developed too. I'm just saying that i don't put too much stock in this matchup problems mantra b/c it swings both ways. How is LT or Singler gonna stop Hansblahblah deep in the post? Just for example. There are plenty of other talented big men in the ACC who are taller etc than either Singler or LT. If LTs game has changed somewhat from last year (ie a decent jumper and 2+ assists for the season) then maybe he will create some of these mythical MPs. I see hustle, grit and on-the-floor desire as LTs assets rather than being able to out-talent ACC PFs. Hopefully by his Jr. year LT will have a bit more polish to his game and be able to let his talent shine more (i just want to be clear, i do believe LT has got lots of talent). I have yet to see Kyle play so i'll refrain from assessing anything of his game.

That's a good point. As you said, MPs work both ways. My excitement for LT-with-a-jumpshot being a matchup problem doesn't mean I don't recognize that he's going to have lots of problems defending the post on the other end. That's almost a given. If Zoubek isn't part of Duke's predominant lineup next year (and especially if he's relegated to deep bench status), then any premier big man we run into will score on us at will when he has the ball in the post. Whether our ball-pressure and ball-denial can prevent the premier big man from consistently receiving the ball in the post is another question, but yeah, if Tyler has the ball in the post, he'll score.

LT needs to have a jumpshot so he can hurt these big men like Tyler on offense. Most of LT's value next season will be dependent on that jumpshot. If it's consistent then he can pull guys away from the basket and open up his driving game (because he does have tremendous quickness; LT's athleticism is almost entirely horizontal instead of vertical) and open up driving lanes for his teammates. LT without a jumpshot is just another guy. I hope Dave comes back with a jumpshot as well.

Basically, small ball requires guys who can shoot to make it function at a contending level.

[Classof06]

See, I don't even think playing Thomas and Singler together should be considered small ball. Just because their not as ripped as Shelden or 7-1 like Brian, doesn't mean they can't defend in the post. Lance, though skinny, is 6-8 and Singler is 6-9. In college, that is not small-ball.

[Troublemaker]

What the rotation could be like if Z is the 11th man on the team:

Paulus (33 min)..........Smith (12)
Scheyer (25)........Pocius (5)
Nelson (25)..........Henderson (25)
Singler (30)..........McClure (10)
Thomas (25).........King (10)

LT and McClure desperately need reliable jumpshots to make that work.

[mapei]

And LT needs to avoid foul trouble. I remember games when he had trouble getting to 10 minutes; 25 is a big jump.

[Troublemaker]

See, I don't even think playing Thomas and Singler together should be considered small ball. Just because their not as ripped as Shelden or 7-1 like Brian, doesn't mean they can't defend in the post. Lance, though skinny, is 6-8 and Singler is 6-9. In college, that is not small-ball.

6-8 and 6-9 will be much better than, say, playing a 6-4 Henderson on the post (due to the extra height and wingspan being better at preventing post entries). But ultimately, what threatens a big man like Tyler when he gets the ball in the post?
(1) defender's strength, to make Tyler receive the ball farther out than he's comfortable... LT and Kyle won't be strong enough
(2) outstanding height to challenge the shot... 6-8 and 6-9 are average height for the post. Tyler can go over the top
(3) outstanding leaping ability / shotblocking to challenge the shot... LT and Kyle are fine athletes, but Ben Wallace (explosive leaping) they are not

Tyler and other premier big men should score at will against us if they receive the ball in the post. We'll have to either send double teams to bother him (b/c Tyler IS a bit of a black hole when he gets the ball) or hope we get turnovers off ball pressure and denial.

[Troublemaker]

The thing about relying on ball denial for post defense, though, is that it has to work in conjunction with ball pressure up top. I just don't see Greg as someone who can threaten the opposing PG with pressure, harassing him into turnovers or cutting off passing angles (by turning him around, for example). Duke's small lineup (or however you want to label a lineup without Z) probably won't have all the parts necessary to defend well against top 10 teams next season. You sorta need oustanding lateral quickness everywhere on the court to make it work. Duke will have to be an oustanding offensive team next season to contend at the highest levels, imo, because I don't think the defense can carry them. Hopefully LT and Dave are working on those jumpshots as we speak.

[ACCBBallFan]

6-8 and 6-9 will be much better than, say, playing a 6-4 Henderson on the post (due to the extra height and wingspan being better at preventing post entries). But ultimately, what threatens a big man like Tyler when he gets the ball in the post?
(1) defender's strength, to make Tyler receive the ball farther out than he's comfortable... LT and Kyle won't be strong enough
(2) outstanding height to challenge the shot... 6-8 and 6-9 are average height for the post. Tyler can go over the top
(3) outstanding leaping ability / shotblocking to challenge the shot... LT and Kyle are fine athletes, but Ben Wallace (explosive leaping) they are not

Tyler and other premier big men should score at will against us if they receive the ball in the post. We'll have to either send double teams to bother him (b/c Tyler IS a bit of a black hole when he gets the ball) or hope we get turnovers off ball pressure and denial.

Absolutley right, unless Zoubek can slow him down, you know Tyler is going to score and one, so you have to take your chances UNC does not hit from outisde.

Lawson and Ellington did not always hit, Miller and Terry are gone, Green can be streaky, Ginyard not an outside threat but like McClure has nose for the ball,

Deon/Alex is a bit of an unknown, but if you can get some fouls on them, rather take your chances on Copeland.

Graves might be a zone buster but who knows,
Frasor's foot may or may not have healed varying reports.

Better chance this year trading off McRoberts without Wright Terry and Miller and with Nolan to help Nelson on defense against his old teammate Lawson.

Kingsnoggle and Singler could cause those bigs some matchup problems, but UNC still the favorite.