Justification for starting Tyler at PG for the remainder of the season

[diveonthefloor]

I know a few folks have suggested this in the past, but based on what we saw vs Maryland and what Kyrie's status is:

1) TT at point allows Nolan to play at least 2/3 of the game at his more natural off-guard position
2) The remainder of he team can also get used to playing with a traditional PG for the next several games
3) The bigs can find a better "sweet spot" in their games, as close as they can get to playing with Kyrie, without actually playing with Kyrie.
4) Our defense improves; forcing more turnovers
5) THE BEST REASON OF ALL: When Kyrie returns, the transition of the remainder of the team becomes MUCH more seamless.

Any others?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I know a few folks have suggested this in the past, but based on what we saw vs Maryland and what Kyrie's status is:

1) TT at point allows Nolan to play at least 2/3 of the game at his more natural off-guard position
2) The remainder of he team can also get used to playing with a traditional PG for the next several games
3) The bigs can find a better "sweet spot" in their games, as close as they can get to playing with Kyrie, without actually playing with Kyrie.
4) Our defense improves; forcing more turnovers
5) THE BEST REASON OF ALL: When Kyrie returns, the transition of the remainder of the team becomes MUCH more seamless.

Any others?

Well you pretty well covered it but I think I (cough cough) said the same thing somewhere else (cough cough) elsewhere a few hours ago!

[wilson]

Nolan himself said after the game last night (quoted in one of the stories linked on the first page, but I can't remember which) that he liked how playing at the 2 allowed him to guard off the ball, thus preserving energy for other parts of his game. Seems like comments like that, straight from the horse's mouth, should count for something.

[DukeGirl4ever]

Tyler made some freshman mistakes with a few turnovers during the full court press, but I can handle that. He needs to make mistakes to improve. I think the offense looked a little more effective with him running the point.
I don't have numbers, data, efficiency ratings, etc. to support my thinking. However, I liked seeing Nolan back at the two...it just seemed like things were ticking.

[billyj]

Clearly Coach K started Thorton so that Nolan can move back to his natural 2 guard position, this all signals the return for Kyrie is imminent.

Op(toe)mistic!

[Newton_14]

I liked the move and it worked out well last night. I think this might be the new starting line up. It was the first post-Kyrie game where we truly took Nolan out of the PG position and allowed Tyler to actually run the point. I know K likely made the move for defensive purposes, but it actually helped our offense, especially for Miles and Mason.

I attribute Tyler's handful of mistakes last night (all were passes) to nerves and freshman-itis. He should quickly grow out of that though, if K sticks with this. It also allowed Andre and Seth to go back to the roles they were playing when we had Kyrie, which took pressure off of them.

Tyler is a good player who will grow into a really good player. If he can make this work, it will do wonders for the team as well as his development. Really great to see! 28 minutes! That is awesome.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Clearly Coach K started Thorton so that Nolan can move back to his natural 2 guard position, this all signals the return for Kyrie is imminent.

Op(toe)mistic!

Exactamundo!

[Bob Green]

I liked the move and it worked out well last night. I think this might be the new starting line up.

I agree with you Tyler Thornton will be starting for the foreseeable future. Coach Krzyzewski has made a significant line-up change the past two seasons by inserting Elliot Williams as a starter in 2009 and Brian Zoubek in 2010. I believe Tyler Thornton will be the 2011 change as he brings defensive intensity onto the court and allows Nolan Smith to play his natural off-the-ball position. Moreover, Thornton seemed to emphasize dishing the ball inside, which involved Mason Plumlee in the offense.

[dukelifer]

I agree with you Tyler Thornton will be starting for the foreseeable future. Coach Krzyzewski has made a significant line-up change the past two seasons by inserting Elliot Williams as a starter in 2009 and Brian Zoubek in 2010. I believe Tyler Thornton will be the 2011 change as he brings defensive intensity onto the court and allows Nolan Smith to play his natural off-the-ball position. Moreover, Thornton seemed to emphasize dishing the ball inside, which involved Mason Plumlee in the offense.

I think Duke will be better off with this change- and with each game- he will get more confident with his passing.

[OZ]

I know a few folks have suggested this in the past, but based on what we saw vs Maryland and what Kyrie's status is:

1) TT at point allows Nolan to play at least 2/3 of the game at his more natural off-guard position
2) The remainder of he team can also get used to playing with a traditional PG for the next several games
3) The bigs can find a better "sweet spot" in their games, as close as they can get to playing with Kyrie, without actually playing with Kyrie.
4) Our defense improves; forcing more turnovers
5) THE BEST REASON OF ALL: When Kyrie returns, the transition of the remainder of the team becomes MUCH more seamless.

Any others?

... and TT himself becomes a better and more confident player as he gets the experience.

[taiw93]

I have always believed that we are a MUCH better team with Nolan at the 2, and I'm thrilled that Tyler has stepped up and proven himself to be very steady as a point guard. I think this team is just built to have Nolan and a natural PG (whether it be Kyrie or Tyler) in the backcourt, giving us two primary ball-handlers on the court at once on offense, and two guys capable of guarding the opposing team's point guard on defense. Nolan did a FANTASTIC job filling in at the point, but I just think our team is much better with two guards capable of PG duties on the floor at once, both from a defensive and offensive perspective. It also makes our transition offense much more effective. I imagine that this will be the starting lineup - with either Tyler or Kyrie, if and when he's healthy - for the rest of the season. However, it is worth noting that in crunch time late in the second half, Coach K went with experience over youth, opting for Seth and Andre over Tyler.

[superdave]

I believe Kedsy said in the MD post-game thread that Tyler is probably more valuable in short bursts where he brings lots of energy. I do think we're better off with Seth and Andre getting consistent minutes but with Tyler having minutes flux based on matchups or the need for an influx of energy. That does not mean he cant start, but I'd be concerned with him playing 30 minutes at the expense of Seth and Andre.

[dukelifer]

I believe Kedsy said in the MD post-game thread that Tyler is probably more valuable in short bursts where he brings lots of energy. I do think we're better off with Seth and Andre getting consistent minutes but with Tyler having minutes flux based on matchups or the need for an influx of energy. That does not mean he cant start, but I'd be concerned with him playing 30 minutes at the expense of Seth and Andre.

I agree with this. Andre and Seth are important weapons. They can blow a game open and get separation. They need to be on the floor at critical moments- like the end of the first half when Duke usually makes a run. TT can start to get the big guys involved and help to get some fouls on the opposing big guys- making it easier on Nolan and Kyle to drive. Ultimately- the big guys need to be active early- and then bring in the bombers late.

[Bob Green]

That does not mean he cant start, but I'd be concerned with him playing 30 minutes at the expense of Seth and Andre.

But this didn't happen in the Maryland game. Thornton started and played 28 minutes with Curry playing 25 minutes and Dawkins playing 20 minutes off the bench. I believe Thornton should start.

[Scorp4me]

Well you pretty well covered it but I think I (cough cough) said the same thing somewhere else (cough cough) elsewhere a few hours ago!

A few hours ago??? Guess I wasn't clear here http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/...924#post470924

or here http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/...764#post464764 following the Florida State loss.

I'll admit I'm a fan, always a fan of the underappreciated players. But even I'm surprised by how well he did the things I hoped he'd do. And I apologize for the untidy links

[diveonthefloor]

But this didn't happen in the Maryland game. Thornton started and played 28 minutes with Curry playing 25 minutes and Dawkins playing 20 minutes off the bench. I believe Thornton should start.

Agreed.

Especially if we are playing a team which predominantly plays man to man defense and most especially if the opposition likes to press.

Andre and Seth will get their minutes for sure! But I would selectively place Seth and Andre in the lineup when the matchups dictate, particularly if we find ourselves playing against a relatively traditional zone defense.

[yancem]

But this didn't happen in the Maryland game. Thornton started and played 28 minutes with Curry playing 25 minutes and Dawkins playing 20 minutes off the bench. I believe Thornton should start.

True but part of that was because Smith played fewer than normal minutes due to his foul situation. I'm for Thornton starting and think that he should get solid minutes but I would like to see him taking a few minutes from Smith and less from Curry and Dawkins. That's not to say anything bad about Smith, he has been absolutely fantastic this year but I think he will be more explosive at crunch time if he gets a few breaks during the game. I also think that it helps Curry and Dawkins with their rhythm since they will be looked upon to shoot more when Smith is out of the game.

[Kedsy]

But this didn't happen in the Maryland game. Thornton started and played 28 minutes with Curry playing 25 minutes and Dawkins playing 20 minutes off the bench. I believe Thornton should start.

Well, in the Maryland game, Kyle played 34 minutes (3.5 less than he averaged in ACC games prior to Maryland), Nolan played 29 minutes (11.1 less than he averaged in ACC games prior to Maryland), and Ryan played 6 minutes (15.4 less than he averaged in ACC play). Assuming they all go back up to their average, then 30 minutes would have to disappear from the other players. Assuming they don't come from Tyler, they'd almost have to come from Seth, Andre, or Miles, and personally I don't think that's a great thing.

I don't care who starts, but as I said in another thread, I'd prefer this season to see Tyler playing 8 to 12 minutes to bring bursts of energy. Not that anybody who matters cares what I'd prefer, but I'm just saying.

[UrinalCake]

I agree with starting Tyler, but I disagree with reasons #3 and #5. Tyler plays nothing like Kyrie. He brings almost the exact opposite skillset to the floor. So I don't see how playing with him will get other players "used" to playing with Kyrie. Nolan is a closer approximation to Kyrie as far as what he does offensively. So for everyone else on the court, having Nolan as the PG is more like what it would be like to have Kyrie playing.

As I said, I do like the idea of having Tyler start and letting him, Curry, and Dawkins play about 25 minutes each. Those four guys (with Smith included) playing in various combinations provides a lot of variety, making it a nightmare for opposing defenses.

[Scorp4me]

...I'd prefer this season to see Tyler playing 8 to 12 minutes...

I said the exact opposite while watching the game. I was glad to see Tyler playing substantial minutes, not just starting as a symbolic thing.

Now Nolan, Kyle, and Ryan all were in foul trouble. So perhaps it's not K's game plan to play him as much as he did. However, seeing how well things worked out perhaps it maybe his game plan now.

I think Seth and Dre played better coming off the bench in spurts as they did earlier in the year. Looks like we're both looking for burst of energy off the bench, just looking in different places