Whitlock says the Patriots = Blue Devils

[TampaDuke]

It’s riskier and more difficult [working with "at risk" players like Calipari] than coaching Dell and Sonya Curry’s son. I’m not criticizing Coach K for his choice.

I guess Whitlock has forgotten about guys like Dockery and Carrawell. I'm sure there are many others.

[moonpie23]

the Patriots didn't win because of cheating. That entire thing was blown vastly out of proportion.

.

the largest fine EVER to a player or coach AND the commissioner destroying damaging evidence against the league says differently....

this wasn't a "minor infraction"...this was, quite possibly, the greatest sports scandal of all time and Roger "milhous" Goodell made sure the REAL story will never be known.

[Spret42]

the largest fine EVER to a player or coach AND the commissioner destroying damaging evidence against the league says differently....

this wasn't a "minor infraction"...this was, quite possibly, the greatest sports scandal of all time and Roger "milhous" Goodell made sure the REAL story will never be known.

He wiped it under the rug because everyone in the NFL was doing it and he knew it.

Belichick taping signals was the equivalent of $500 handshakes in college football.

My main point with regard to Belichick is that he didn't win exclusively because of cheating. Go back and research the playoff games that teams he has been intimately involved in have played and won going back to mid 1980's and especially starting with 15-13 in the 1990 NFC Title game. The Giants/Bills Super Bowl was a virtual carbon copy of the Patriots/Rams Super Bowl.

The guys father was the lead scout for the Naval Academy, he grew up breaking down film. He has coached with everyone from Marchibroda to Parcells. He is a human encyclopedia of football tactics and strategy. Yes, he secretly filmed and cheated. It has been been going on since football started. There is a reason teams started printing and encoding playbooks with specific serial numbers on them. There is a reason they print up dummy playbooks. The history of the league is full of unsavory and borderline unsportsmanlike tactics. Holding Belichick exclusively to the fire for it and saying his record has no weight because of it is just silly.

Again. I root against the Patriots.

We know now the "shot heard round the world" was almost fiction. So sorry, but Belichick's taping wasn't ever going to be the "greatest sports scandal of all time." Not even close.

[Atlanta Duke]

He wiped it under the rug because everyone in the NFL was doing it and he knew it.

Who else? A link to your source for "everyone" doing it also would be appreciated.

My main point with regard to Belichick is that he didn't win exclusively because of cheating.

Agreed - he primarily wins because he has Tom Brady - he got fired in Cleveland when he had Vinnie Testaverde as his QB and missed the playoffs when Brady was injured in 2008. Like most coaches Belichick is a much better coach when he has better players

[Spret42]

Who else? A link to your source for "everyone" doing it also would be appreciated.



Agreed - he primarily wins because he has Tom Brady - he got fired in Cleveland when he had Vinnie Testaverde as his QB and missed the playoffs when Brady was injured in 2008. Like most coaches Belichick is a much better coach when he has better players

This took me...about 15 seconds to find. http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/truth-ab...g-nfl-1088981/ Cheating and stealing signals is part of the NFL. Yes the Patriots took it too far and broke a very specific rule. But the simple fact is that you can't say they won because they had signals. The history of league is riddled with teams who had the other teams signals.

And your characterization of his time in Cleveland is too short sighted to address. He coached for Art Modell who was more concerned with other things than allowing him to put together a team with the kinds of players he needed to implement a system that had helped him to 2 Super Bowl wins already as a coordinator.

Without Brady he went 11-5 with a quarterback who hadn't started since high school. He missed the playoff with a record that in league history made the playoffs almost, if i remember correctly, 90% of the time.

Yes, every coach at the professional level has needed great players. So there are no great coaches? Auerbach - actually a bum without Bill Russell. Casey Stengel - purely a product of Mickey Mantle. Scotty Bowman - a loser who never wins a thing without Mario Lemiuex, Steve Yzerman or Ken Dryden. Most every time a professional player who was part of a dynasty with a coach talks about the "culture" that coach created. The culture at the professional level is the thing.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

Who else? A link to your source for "everyone" doing it also would be appreciated.



Agreed - he primarily wins because he has Tom Brady - he got fired in Cleveland when he had Vinnie Testaverde as his QB and missed the playoffs when Brady was injured in 2008. Like most coaches Belichick is a much better coach when he has better players

Well of course that is the case for every coach. It is easier to win with better talent combined well with role players. But factor in the other things he has done and it shows how great of a coach he really is.

- I do not consider the "spy gate" scandal a big deal at all anyway. I remember when it happened and it was all anyone talked about and most analysists agreed most if not every team does it but has not gotten caught and it does not give much of an advantage anyway. An NFL team will not play the same team twice unless its a division opponent or its the playoffs. So now that that has been said rarely does an NFL team run the same play twice in a game and maybe no more than 4 times a season with hundreds of plays to choose from so how would knowing a few plays out of hundreds from your opponent help you when you have 30 seconds to recognize it in the first place.

[bluebear]

the largest fine EVER to a player or coach AND the commissioner destroying damaging evidence against the league says differently....

this wasn't a "minor infraction"...this was, quite possibly, the greatest sports scandal of all time and Roger "milhous" Goodell made sure the REAL story will never be known.

Uh..greatest scandal of all time? A bit of hyperbole, don't you think..I've yet to hear someone provide a persuasive argument for how the tapes actually helped the Pats win a single game...

[Duke: A Dynasty]

This took me...about 15 seconds to find. http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/truth-ab...g-nfl-1088981/ Cheating and stealing signals is part of the NFL.

And your characterization of his time in Cleveland is too short sighted to address. He coached for Art Modell who was more concerned with other things than allowing him to put together a team with the kinds of players he needed to implement a system that had helped him to 2 Super Bowl wins already as a coordinator.

Without Brady he went 11-5 with a quarterback who hadn't started since high school. He missed the playoff with a record that in league history made the playoffs almost, if i remember correctly, 90% of the time.

Yes, every coach at the professional level has needed great players. So there are no great coaches? Auerbach - actually a bum without Bill Russell. Casey Stengel - purely a product of Mickey Mantle. Scotty Bowman - a loser who never wins a thing without Mario Lemiuex, Steve Yzerman or Ken Dryden.

Cmon now.

Thank you my point exactly! Would also like to point out that he upset many people when he let go one of the best defensive players on the team when he got there (Lawyer Milloy?) and that turned out to be a good move. He also chose to throw in an unproven late round draft pick in at qb when an injury occured to the starter and the nstuck with him (Tom Brady). Do not remember which year it was but he got his wr (name escapes me at the moment) to play wr, special teams, and defense on his way to a superbowl. Bill also somehow seems to get good value on his draft picks and seemingly always rips off other teams in trades for players or picks (remember Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Deon Branch, Richard Seymore, loads of draft picks, Cory Dillion). The man makes good smart moves and gets the best out of his players (see Danny Woodhead).

[Spret42]

Do not remember which year it was but he got his wr (name escapes me at the moment) to play wr, special teams, and defense on his way to a superbowl.

Troy Brown.

[moonpie23]

Belichick taping signals was the equivalent of $500 handshakes in college football.

more like $500 THOUSAND

Belichick's taping wasn't ever going to be the "greatest sports scandal of all time." Not even close.

guess we'll never know ...goodell made sure of that....had to be SOMETHING that was pretty bad...no reason to destroy not-so-bad evidence..

[bluebear]

more like $500 THOUSAND




guess we'll never know ...goodell made sure of that....had to be SOMETHING that was pretty bad...no reason to destroy not-so-bad evidence..

Are you sure they destroyed them..I believe they are actually stored in a wooden box in a secret military hangar in the desert.

[Spret42]

Are you sure they destroyed them..I believe they are actually stored in a wooden box in a secret military hangar in the desert.

They are stored away, but it isn't a wooden box in a hangar. It is in a steel and titanium reinforced trunk, inside a concrete bunker buried deep within a mountain. The tapes are actually indestructible and you see, if revealed to the world, the light of the football gods will melt all our faces off.

[moonpie23]

or the light of Vegas having to overturn 3 superbowl outcomes. (they don't, but, you see what i mean)

what do you think would have happened to goodell if it HAD been revealed that the pats cheated in all three SB's? and had the wins retracted?

[Waynne]

The hating of Coach Belichick and the Patriots by some posters on this board reminds me of the hating of Coach K and Duke by posters on other boards. Yes, Belichick cheated and paid the price but it was not even close to the worst sports scandal of all times or the crime against humanity some here make it out to be.

No, Coach K has never cheated to my knowledge, and that is one of the many reasons he is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time. Coach Belichick also is considered by most to be a great coach, and to repeat ad nauseam that he won 3 Super Bowls because he "cheated" is utter nonsense. That claim is akin to the claim that Coach K won 4 national championships because he "gets all the calls."

There are a lot more similarities between Duke basketball and the Patriots ( and the San Antonio Spurs IMO) than some would like to admit. I take Whitlock's comparison as a compliment.

[uh_no]

No, Coach K has never cheated to my knowledge, and that is one of the many reasons he is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Coach K does commercials and plays the refs though!!!!!!!

agree 100%

[moonpie23]

The hating of Coach Belichick and the Patriots by some posters on this board reminds me of the hating of Coach K and Duke by posters on other boards. Yes, Belichick cheated and paid the price but it was not even close to the worst sports scandal of all times or the crime against humanity some here make it out to be.

No, Coach K has never cheated to my knowledge, and that is one of the many reasons he is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time. Coach Belichick also is considered by most to be a great coach, and to repeat ad nauseam that he won 3 Super Bowls because he "cheated" is utter nonsense. That claim is akin to the claim that Coach K won 4 national championships because he "gets all the calls."

There are a lot more similarities between Duke basketball and the Patriots ( and the San Antonio Spurs IMO) than some would like to admit. I take Whitlock's comparison as a compliment.

"utter nonsense" doesn't get you a half a mil fine. Coach K has never been accused of "cheating" nor handed the largest fine FOR cheating to a coach in his "league"...

belichick was....there are HUGE differences and hardly any similarities between the two...

you will never convince me that there WASN'T something totally damaging to the league AND Belicheat on those tapes and and we will never know whether is was the "worst sports" scandal because roger goodell made sure of it...

[COYS]

you will never convince me that there WASN'T something totally damaging to the league AND Belicheat on those tapes and and we will never know whether is was the "worst sports" scandal because roger goodell made sure of it...

I'll preface this by saying that I completely agree with everything you say, Moonpie, except, even if it is proven that those tapes show proof that the Pats cheated during every single game both playoff and regular season the entire time Belichik was the coach, it wouldn't be bigger than baseball's greatest scandals. The '51 New York Giants admitted to stealing all signs from the Brooklyn Dodgers using a complex system involving telescopes and electric buzzers. Pete Rose, Steroids, MLB owners freezing out black players pre-Jackie Robinson, the Black Sox (whose "strange" performance in the world series was preceded by two earlier "strange" performances that were never explained), cocaine use in the 80's, etc. Some of these are probably a bit smaller than the Pats scandal, but altogether I think that baseball probably holds 5 of the top 10 spots for scandals in American sports.

[bluebear]

"utter nonsense" doesn't get you a half a mil fine. Coach K has never been accused of "cheating" nor handed the largest fine FOR cheating to a coach in his "league"...

belichick was....there are HUGE differences and hardly any similarities between the two...

you will never convince me that there WASN'T something totally damaging to the league AND Belicheat on those tapes and and we will never know whether is was the "worst sports" scandal because roger goodell made sure of it...

So enlighten us? What could have been on the tapes beyond what we already know...we know BB taped opposing teams signals and we also know that other teams have done the same..so again, what is the big mystery?

[moonpie23]

So enlighten us? What could have been on the tapes beyond what we already know...we know BB taped opposing teams signals and we also know that other teams have done the same..so again, what is the big mystery?

there are a multitude of "what could have" been on the tapes, but the very fact that Goodell was compelled to destroy them is so damning that it must have been league threatening.

if it was just the taping of the signals, why the need to destroy that? just lock them away in your "belecheat better not do this again" safe...

no, he destroyed the evidence, and then handed down the LARGEST FINE IN LEAGUE HISTORY to a coach for cheating.


Are you just not feeling the gravity of the actions?